[Pittbug]

I've heard (can't recall the source) that when people are in an excited state, their perception of events speeds up, making it seem like time slows down. Well after hitting google a couple of times I came across this article:

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=2110887

They performed some tests and found that your rate of perception doesn't speed up, but the part of your brain that records the memory of the event becomes more active, so you remember more.

[Catfish]

I would also say that you see more and as you become more comfortable with the speed at which things are happening, your brain processes what you are seeing.

I recall talking about this a few years ago in a "time warp" discussion here.... a good search should flesh it out.

[Z32MadMan]

Well technically time does slow down as you reach the speed of light, but I don't think that applies here

I would say that the posters above are both on to something though.

[Catfish]

Ah, here.... I love it when I actually remember something for a change.

http://www.brianenos...mp;hl=time+warp

[Calmwater]

Glanced at the article. If it is merely recollection and not increased thought speed or perception, then why do I recall detailed thoughts and decisions in a period of time when I normally wouldn't be able to process that much information? Or according to the theory of the article, do I process this much information constantly, but only recall it after a high stress incident? COOL TOPIC

[AlamoShooter]

Dude! What do you think we are searching for? Its the quest for the longest second. To see and know the difference in a slow hammer fall and fast one. The curve in the flight of the bullet.

Its what I shoot and train for, its the reward for hard work.
Its the video that plays in your brain of the bullet hitting low left edge of target #4 as your dot slides into the stop plate the gun firring, with dust rising in the dirt from the edge hit, Waiting .....Waiting and the RO realizes you made all the hits for a clean run. Lots of shooters are better and faster than me, but no one gets to see what I see with my eyes.

A very good shooting coach will help you learn to translate what your eyes see, but your brain has not been told it can process.

A way to learn that skill is to do something that takes two seconds. and thin spend the next two minuets describing every thing you saw in that two seconds.
If I remember sparing, its not the strike that is coming, it is the 1/2 second before the strike that counts. Learning to pay attention.
Thanks for reminding me what matters most.

This post has been edited by AlamoShooter: 17 February 2009 - 08:48 PM

[benos]

AlamoShooter, on Feb 17 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

... Learning to pay attention.
Thanks for reminding me what matters most.

Yes. There's nothing that attention won't do better than habit.
be

[Loves2Shoot]

From a previous posting I made:

Their is a show on the Science channel called, "The Human Body: Pushing the Limits" and it goes into the brain and vision in pretty interesting detail. It talks extensively about "slowing time."

The short of it is that it seems we generally see in 28-30 frames per second, but under stress we can see 60+ frames per second, maybe as many as 90 frames per second. Stress can be introduced in many ways and competition is one of those ways.

This post has been edited by Loves2Shoot: 17 February 2009 - 10:20 PM

[Pittbug]

Loves2Shoot, on Feb 18 2009, 12:18 AM, said:

From a previous posting I made:

Their is a show on the Science channel called, "The Human Body: Pushing the Limits" and it goes into the brain and vision in pretty interesting detail. It talks extensively about "slowing time."

The short of it is that it seems we generally see in 28-30 frames per second, but under stress we can see 60+ frames per second, maybe as many as 90 frames per second. Stress can be introduced in many ways and competition is one of those ways.

Ahh haa.. that's the reference in my first post, but I only saw the trailer.. I really wanted to see the show. Thanks for bringing it up again, I'll try and find it again. Thanks.

[Ray R.]

Time doesn't slow down for anyone for any reason. What happens is that under certain conditions (such as stress) humans can do more things in the same amount of time. They move faster, and process more information in a given block of time. That gives the impression that everything is suddenly happening in slow motion.

If this happens to you while you're shooting a match, enjoy it. You probably are shooting as well as you possibly can.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

What do you think we are searching for? Its the quest for the longest second.

I like that.

[Duane Thomas]

For me, it's not that I get a sense of perceptibly slowed time. Time seems to proceed at its normal pace. It's only in that moment when the stage is over, in that sudden silence, that sudden return of normal perception of speed, that I realize, "Damn....that was fast, wasn't it?"

[AlamoShooter]

Duane Thomas, on Feb 18 2009, 05:47 PM, said:

For me, it's not that I get a sense of perceptibly slowed time. Time seems to proceed at its normal pace. It's only in that moment when the stage is over, in that sudden silence, that sudden return of normal perception of speed, that I realize, "Damn....that was fast, wasn't it?"

+1 yes yes. I know many are faster , its when I shoot close to my protential.

[Catfish]

Interesting.... for me, when I'm really cooking along, it never feels fast. Pretty slow, really. And then they show me the timer and it's just "wow, really?!!"

[mike cyrwus]

I think we see more, and time lasts longer because the there is a filtering of subconscious thought and action to the conscious mind. The "slo-motion" feeling is the conscious, only being a watcher, looking back, at all of the things the subconscious has done; a split second after the subconscious has done it.. This filter is probably located in the reticular activating system (RAS) of the brain.

This thread is a funny coincidence, Ive been doing a little nosing around on this subject the last few days. I want to know how to train this filter, open it up, close it down. The RAS is also responsible for tunnel vision, and fight or flight instincts.

cool stuff.

[Ray R.]

What Mike is talking about is called Tackypsychia. It is the normal response to "fight or flight."

I doubt it can be induced at will, but as everybody who has engaged in lots of sports knows, there are times when a mild episode takes place. (In baseball, hitters call it "being in the zone," where the baseball looks as big as a kitten ball and seem to float toward the plate. Fielders get it too, when pop ups seem to hang in mid air giving them all sorts of time to float under them and make the catch). Given that, it might be possible to train the brain to induce such a mild episode to a given particular non-dangerous situation that causes mild stress. If so, it could be one way of improving performance on demand.

If anybody figures out how to do this, I'd like to hear about it.

This post has been edited by Ray R.: 18 February 2009 - 11:16 PM

[VegasOPM]

I have noticed this phenomenon on several occasions- but I cannot get it to cooperate. Martial arts, racing and shooting are where I have noticed it the most- other than actual life threatening encounters. I think that the stress induced by certain hobbies may make Tachypsychia more likely. Again, wouldn't it be nice to be able to "turn it on" as needed?

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

I think we see more, and time lasts longer because the there is a filtering of subconscious thought and action to the conscious mind. The "slo-motion" feeling is the conscious, only being a watcher, looking back, at all of the things the subconscious has done; a split second after the subconscious has done it.. This filter is probably located in the reticular activating system (RAS) of the brain.

This thread is a funny coincidence, Ive been doing a little nosing around on this subject the last few days. I want to know how to train this filter, open it up, close it down. The RAS is also responsible for tunnel vision, and fight or flight instincts.

Just my personal opinion, but I think it's more a matter of removing the filter and opening up our mind, especially the subconscious, to input. When we do that, some people perceive it as time going into slow motion because the brain is unused to the amount of data it's processing. For instance, if we're processing the amount of data in one second that we normally process in five seconds, then one second will feel like five seconds. On the other hand, depending on the person, it might seem that time proceeds at the normal pace, or close to it, but you see everything out there, things you'd never normally see: brass leaving the ejection port, holes appearing in paper targets, bullet splatter off steel, the exact position of the front sight within the rear notch for every shot, etc.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

Again, wouldn't it be nice to be able to "turn it on" as needed?

We can, actually. We've all heard the advice "Watch the front sight," but I'm convinced that most people don't understand, at the higher skills levels, why we watch the front sight. It's because watching the front sight occupies the conscious mind, thus allowing the much more competent subconscious mind to run the shooting. Also, when we can see the position of the front sight within the rear notch for every shot, this frees our mind of an immense load. If we do NOT see the position of the sights at the instant the gun fires, there's always this little piece of our mind, whether we realize it or not, that, when we move on the next target(s), is always still back on the targets we've already engaged, wondering if the hits are there or not. When you KNOW that every hit is there, because you read the sights at the moment the gun went off, you can just breeze through the stage with this wonderful feeling of mental joy and freedom.

Before I proceed, let me apologize if what I'm about to say seems like I'm bragging. It's just that I can only think of a way to really explain what I mean by giving as an example an experience I had that starkly contrasted the difference in mental, and shooting, performance enabled by watching the front sight compared to not watching the front sight. Unfortunately - in a way - this will entail me telling the story of my doing something right.

Okay, here's my example. The first IDPA match I ever shot after getting my SSP Master rank had six stages. I didn't realize - though I should have - that when your squadmates know you've just gotten the M, they'll be watching you to see how well you can shoot. The first three stages I was really not shooting very well. Because I was trying to be fast, I wasn't taking the time to pick up the front sight, I was just blasting away, dropping an immense number of points, and my times weren't anything to write home about, either. Actually one of our Expert class shooters on my squad was pretty much keeping up with me.

I might have continued that level of performance throughout the entire match except that the fourth stage I shot required, at the first position, that you go to kneeling around a barrel and cut a tight no-shoot on the first target which only had a partial down-0 circle available. I said to myself, "Okay, this is obviously not a blast 'em proposition or I'm going to hit that no-shoot. If I'm going to have a fast first shot, avoid the no-shoot and get all the points, I need to get on the front sight as I'm pressing the gun out to the target."

Now, this particular stage, if you hit everything you aimed at, was 11 rounds. You started out at the barrel, engaging four targets (that's 8 rounds), then shooting another target on the move across a fairly wide bay (that's 10), then the final shot was again from kneeling around a barrel, on a round steel plate at moderately long distance (that's 11). If I wanted to run a fast time, that meant I was going to come into the last position with only one round in the gun, and I had to take down the plate with one shot. Again, this was a "focus on the front sight" proposition.

At the buzzer, I dropped down behind the barrel, as I drew acquired the front sight, fired two shots and knew I'd hit the down-0 circle with both, then, since that had worked out so well, just kept on using the front sight for the other three targets. Again I knew I'd dropped no points there. Hustled my butt out across the range, blasted that one target on the move, as I dropped into cover at the final position acquired the front sight and dropped the steel with one shot.

To me this did not all seem particularly fast. I was surprised when, after UASC, suddenly every other person on the squad was standing around me, laughing, slapping me on the back, one guy said, "You've been holding out the Master on us til now!" A stage that most people were running in the mid-20s I'd just done in 10-something. I'd only dropped one point, on the target I shot on the move at almost a dead run - the only target on which I did not acquire the front sight, strangely enough. So by reading my sights while shooting, not only had my accuracy improved immensely, but by "taking the time" to pick up the front sight my speed improved, too.

Okay, that worked out so well, I decided to watch that little pointy thing on the end of the gun for the last two stages. By the end of the match, I was ahead of the Expert who had been pacing me for the first half of the match by 10 seconds - and it all happened on the last three stages.

The level of mental performance that watching the front sight enables makes this whole "competition shooting" thing so easy, really it's almost like cheating.

[Ray R.]

I agree with what Duane wrote-- partially.

I agree that the brain suddenly begins processing information at a faster rate giving the impression that time is slowing down. But it also processes information selectively. Information coming in from the senses that is of no use is simply ignored, while that information necessary to the task at hand is given exclusive consideration.

At the same time, the brain forces the body to do things it normally couldn't do. It gets stronger, faster, and less aware of extraneous stimuli i.e. we don't see things that are well within our vision or hear certain things we would normally hear.

Put it all together, and someone in this state is going operate at (personal) peak efficiency for the time being.

And while it does seem that it affects people in different ways, perhaps we react according to what we have come to believe is the best way.

Much here to study....

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

Information coming in from the senses that is of no use is simply ignored, while that information necessary to the task at hand is given exclusive consideration.

For me, in practice I seem to be open to other inputs, even stuff that does not directly relate to the shooting - seeing brass exiting the ejection port is a biggie for me. But in a match it seems to become just the front sight, and its relationship to the rear notch and target.

Quote

And while it does seem that it affects people in different ways, perhaps we react according to what we have come to believe is the best way.

Much here to study....

Agreed. I would be amazed if the experience did not vary among people. People do, after all, have different minds. Though it may break down into certain broad categories of experience.

[Ray R.]

Quote

But in a match it seems to become just the front sight, and its relationship to the rear notch and target.

Yeah! Amazing though, how easy it is to simply miss seeing that "little pointy thing," even though its always in the same place at the end of the gun.

[j1b]

You know, for me the time doesn't change. Or my perception of time doesn't change.

I haven't gotten tackypsychia in years. I know I used to when I was young, but it hasn't happened in ages. Neither at a match or those "other" high stress times.

I know that I don't spend a lot of time trying to "grasp" what has to happen. If I ever went through a process of trying to understand all that had to happen to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish in the time I wanted to accomplish it I'd fail miserably. Even at simple stuff - like a bill drill. At the beep draw the gun, shoot 6 A's all in less than 1.7 seconds or something like that? I'd say no way in hell! But people do it all day long. Easily.

I guess my spin on this is a little different than the posts thus far. I'm not looking for the longest second. I really don't have a perception of time when I shoot. Almost no perception of time at all. And I have no clue how my brain processes the data that I see, and I DEFINITLY don't want to understand that.

The only sense of time I have, and this isn't really a sense of time as much as it is simply having a "right" feeling, is when I'm shooting as efficiently as I can. When I'm moving well, loads are going well, the sight is tracking well, I'm indexing well, the plates are falling and the vision is crisp and clean - it isn't that I know I'm fast then - it's just that I "feel" efficient. Confident. Trusting. It isn't being in a "zone" either. Or on autopilot. When all of this is happening I'm an active player in the game - that's what makes it so much fun! It isn't luck, it's just me being all that I can be. When a stage goes like this, feels like this, that's where it's at for me. I can smile after a stage, and just enjoy the feeling. And in that moment I guess the only thing time really has to do with it is that I probably don't ask to see the clock. I'll find out later. I'd rather enjoy the moment.

Jack

[Ray R.]

Quote

The only sense of time I have, and this isn't really a sense of time as much as it is simply having a "right" feeling, is when I'm shooting as efficiently as I can. When I'm moving well, loads are going well, the sight is tracking well, I'm indexing well, the plates are falling and the vision is crisp and clean - it isn't that I know I'm fast then - it's just that I "feel" efficient. Confident.

I've talked this over with other shooters who feel that way, and I "think?" I have an answer as to why it happens like that.

When I'm shooting well I have pretty much the same feeling j1b writes about, although many times I feel like I'm in slow motion, only to find out after the run I was anythin but. However, I have no sense of time actually slowing down. Why?

I think its because most targets in handgun shooting are at rest. In order to get that old "time slows down" feeling we have to have something outside of ourselves moving. To go back to the baseball analagy, when watching a pitcher fron the on-deck circle you see how quickly he comes to the plate and how fast the pitch is. But when you're hitting, suddenly his release is slowed and the ball isn't moving as fast. Ergo, time appears to slow down as there is movement in real time for us to judge things by.

In shooting we only have ourselves moving, and since we can't "see" that, we have no reference to judge by.

[Duane Thomas]

One thing I'm firmly convinced that shooters at the lower skill levels don't realize - and lot of the higher skill level shooters have forgotten - is that at the higher skill levels things seem to the shooter to be happening much more slowly than they do for people at the lower skill levels. It's not that we get a perception of slowed time per se, in the sense that things seem to happen in slow motion, but that the things other people see that seem to them very fast, to us seem, while moving at what we perceive as "normal" speed, are just not very fast at all.

This next bit comes out of a conversation I had once with Master class USPSA and IDPA shooter Tim Bacus (just wanted to give credit where it's due):

Take a typical USPSA shooting problem: you've got an activator (Pepper popper) flanked by a static target on one side and and a drop turner on the other that's activated by the PP. For most people, they hit the PP, before they know it the steel's on the ground and the DT's facing them, they rush over to the DT just as it's turning away and fire a couple of hopers. Only then can they think about engating the static paper. This all seems to happen very fast to them. Engaging the static before the DT but after hitting the activator is COMPLETELY out of the question, there's just not enough time.

On the other hand, at the higher skilll levels, we hit the PP twice to get it to fall faster, know we've connected with both shots because we've read the sights, before the steel's even really begun to fall we're on the static, fire two aimed shots there, then come over and wait for the DT to appear, at which point we have all the time in the world to fire two accurate, aimed shots. To other people this is all a blur of motion; for us it's like shooting a fun but not particularly challenging arcade game. We do not feel rushed at all while doing this, because over years of training to execute skills, and process and react to visual input, in fractions of a second, our perception of time, not just at a match but in general, has distorted WAY beyond what most people consider "normal".