[mactiger]

We are currently looking for staff for the 2009 USPSA National Championships. I've inserted the message from the USPSA Nationals web page here:

2009 USPSA Nationals Volunteer Request
We are now accepting applications for volunteer staff for the 2009 USPSA Nationals matches. To open and print the form, Click here (PDF) and in .doc format here. You can either mail it in to us at:

USPSA
702A Metcalf
Sedro Woolley, WA 98284

or return it by email to: Matt Pickhardt
If you have worked the Nationals in the past, you should be receiving this form in the mail shortly.

As always, not everyone who applies can be accepted but everyone is welcome to apply. We'd love to have your help in Las Vegas this year!


We plan to make this match an event, and we can always use fresh help. Prior Nationals experience is not required. Email or PM me if you have questions. Even if you aren't interested, please pass the info along to anyone you think might be. David Hyden is the Match Director, John Amidon is the Assistant Match Director, I'm one of the RM's and Carl Schmidt is the other. Both the Handgun match (Back to Back) and the Multigun match are in Vegas; weather should not be an issue, and even if it rains, we probably won't see too much mud.

We will have a "work one, shoot one" option, but staff do not shoot this match for score.

Troy

[FullRace]

mactiger, on Feb 14 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

We will have a "work one, shoot one" option, but staff do not shoot this match for score.

Troy

Troy,

Your statement above is a little confusing as the application says:

WORK ONE SHOOT ONE:

If you have earned a slot to one match and wish to work the other, we encourage you to do so.

If you haven't earned a slot, you may sign up on the waiting list, which opens June 2nd.

All slots must be paid, but those working one/shooting one will be entitled to a double

occupancy room for the entire week of the match* (or $***** a day for locals who don't need

lodging or those who choose to stay at an alternate hotel. *subject to limits set above.)




Are you saying even if you pay for a slot to shoot Open and work Limited/Limited 10/Revolver match your score shot in Open with a paid slot is NOT going to count?

[AlamoShooter]

I have given plenty of thought to try and work my time off to help, but I also wanted to shoot the 3 gun event and I have a slot for Open. I could help with construction issues.
I don't like the sounds of no score though

[Tom D]

FullRace, on Feb 14 2009, 08:04 PM, said:

mactiger, on Feb 14 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

We will have a "work one, shoot one" option, but staff do not shoot this match for score.

Troy

Troy,

Your statement above is a little confusing as the application says:

WORK ONE SHOOT ONE:

If you have earned a slot to one match and wish to work the other, we encourage you to do so.

If you haven't earned a slot, you may sign up on the waiting list, which opens June 2nd.

All slots must be paid, but those working one/shooting one will be entitled to a double

occupancy room for the entire week of the match* (or $***** a day for locals who don't need

lodging or those who choose to stay at an alternate hotel. *subject to limits set above.)




Are you saying even if you pay for a slot to shoot Open and work Limited/Limited 10/Revolver match your score shot in Open with a paid slot is NOT going to count?

I will hit this one for Troy, the work one shoot one, your score will count for the one that you paid to shoot, there will not be a staff match for the one you work. At least this is the way it has been in the past.

Tom

[JThompson]

Troy,

What is the thinking behind staff not shooting for score???

[mactiger]

I see the confusion.

I meant to say that staff doesn't get to shoot the match for free for score. If you get a slot, and enter, then of course your score will count--you'll be shooting the match as a competitor along with everyone else, and not RO'ing that match. I wanted to avoid the impression that staff could shoot the match at no cost and have their scores count. We don't do that as a general rule due to time constraints and wanting to avoid having competitors basically refereeing other competitors. It avoids any issues with conflict of interest, etc., (before we get into that discussion again, NO, I'm not saying the staff has or would cheat.) We do try to have a staff match, which consists of 6-8 stages, with results used for bragging rights. We also use that match to trouble shoot some of the more complex stages. As far as I know, match staff has never shot a handgun nationals for score, (Single Stack is the exception) unless they were doing the work-one, shoot-one option.

Hope this clears things up.

Troy

FullRace, on Feb 14 2009, 08:04 PM, said:

mactiger, on Feb 14 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

We will have a "work one, shoot one" option, but staff do not shoot this match for score.

Troy

Troy,

Your statement above is a little confusing as the application says:

WORK ONE SHOOT ONE:

If you have earned a slot to one match and wish to work the other, we encourage you to do so.

If you haven't earned a slot, you may sign up on the waiting list, which opens June 2nd.

All slots must be paid, but those working one/shooting one will be entitled to a double

occupancy room for the entire week of the match* (or $***** a day for locals who don't need

lodging or those who choose to stay at an alternate hotel. *subject to limits set above.)




Are you saying even if you pay for a slot to shoot Open and work Limited/Limited 10/Revolver match your score shot in Open with a paid slot is NOT going to count?

[mactiger]

JThompson, on Feb 14 2009, 08:21 PM, said:

Troy,

What is the thinking behind staff not shooting for score???

It's mostly a time issue with the regular handgun nationals, but we also want to avoid any opportunity for someone to claim conflict of interest where a penalty, DQ, or scoring call is made. As I said in my previous note, we have never, to my knowledge, had anyone make that claim, but staff has not (as long as I've been involved, anyway) shot for score unless they were doing the W1S1 thing. This isn't meant as a slam to either staff or competitors, but I've sat in or handled enough arbs and contentious penalties to know that people will say anything in the heat of the moment. That's just human nature. Not having staff shoot for score in a match that they officiate takes that angle away.

The timing issue aside (it costs $$ to provide housing and food for staff, so extra days are expensive), the RO's would have to basically RO themselves for most of the courses, and that's another area where inconsistencies can arise. We just try to avoid those kind of problems.

Hope this helps.

Troy

[mactiger]

AlamoShooter, on Feb 14 2009, 08:09 PM, said:

I have given plenty of thought to try and work my time off to help, but I also wanted to shoot the 3 gun event and I have a slot for Open. I could help with construction issues.
I don't like the sounds of no score though

If you shoot the Open match using your slot, your score will count. You could then work the LPR match as match staff.

Troy

[VegasOPM]

I'm here in Las Vegas and was planning on helping the setup and tear down anyway(I am the MD at Desert Sportsman's and a regular shooter at Desert Lakes matches). I have no qualms with helping, and paying for my slot- heck, I don't even need a room. But why would I want to shoot the match for no score? I'd rather just get a place on the waiting list, show up and shoot for a score- without going through the trouble of working.

[mactiger]

VegasOPM, on Feb 14 2009, 09:15 PM, said:

I'm here in Las Vegas and was planning on helping the setup and tear down anyway(I am the MD at Desert Sportsman's and a regular shooter at Desert Lakes matches). I have no qualms with helping, and paying for my slot- heck, I don't even need a room. But why would I want to shoot the match for no score? I'd rather just get a place on the waiting list, show up and shoot for a score- without going through the trouble of working.

Once again, if you shoot the match as a competitor, with a slot you received and paid for, your score will count. Whether you work or not, if you shoot the match as a regular competitor, your scores count.

Troy

[VegasOPM]

Mactiger,
Sorry, you had answered the question as I was composing my response. You also have a PM.

[Larry273]

Thanks for posting. I just emailed my application...we'll see how it works out.

[John Baier]

Troy. how far are the casinos from the match hotel? I'm feeling lucky!!!

Of course, I haven't seen my stage assignment yet.

I know for one thing. I am looking forward to just running shooters and not having to worry about working on my RM stuff.

~John

[mactiger]

John Baier, on Feb 14 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Troy. how far are the casinos from the match hotel? I'm feeling lucky!!!

Of course, I haven't seen my stage assignment yet.

I know for one thing. I am looking forward to just running shooters and not having to worry about working on my RM stuff.

~John

It's Vegas, dude. The match hotel has a casino in it, in all likelihood.
I got a special stage for you, pal.

Troy

[Franklin D Wolverton]

The wife is PISSED that I haven't volunteered yet... she wants to go to Vegas, but I can't afford to take 12 days off work...

[mactiger]

Franklin D Wolverton, on Feb 15 2009, 01:12 AM, said:

The wife is PISSED that I haven't volunteered yet... she wants to go to Vegas, but I can't afford to take 12 days off work...

Well, it starts and ends on weekends, so you could conceivably only have to take 5 days off work, unless you work every day, like I do.

Troy

[AlamoShooter]

you guys get days Off!

[kimel]

For lots of us our employers have days they claim are off days so they don't feel obliged to pay us for these days, but we end up working on them anyway because we are on-call 24x7. If I want a real day off I have to leave the area.

Looking forward to several days off in Vegas in September and October!

[vluc]

Unfortunately, as a CRO, I have intense desire to do it, but not the time or dinero.

[Franklin D Wolverton]

mactiger, on Feb 15 2009, 02:00 AM, said:

Franklin D Wolverton, on Feb 15 2009, 01:12 AM, said:

The wife is PISSED that I haven't volunteered yet... she wants to go to Vegas, but I can't afford to take 12 days off work...

Well, it starts and ends on weekends, so you could conceivably only have to take 5 days off work, unless you work every day, like I do.

Troy

Any time I take off from my job is unpaid. We don't get paid vacations.

Frank

[John Baier]

mactiger, on Feb 14 2009, 10:33 PM, said:

John Baier, on Feb 14 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Troy. how far are the casinos from the match hotel? I'm feeling lucky!!!

Of course, I haven't seen my stage assignment yet.

I know for one thing. I am looking forward to just running shooters and not having to worry about working on my RM stuff.

~John

It's Vegas, dude. The match hotel has a casino in it, in all likelihood.
I got a special stage for you, pal.

Troy

Special stage? won't all the others get jealous

[Barrettone]

And we haven't seen him since...



-That Guy

[LPatterson]

I sent Kim my name, now to see if I get a response.

[John Baier]

Barrettone, on Feb 16 2009, 12:48 AM, said:

And we haven't seen him since...



-That Guy

Well you do come up a lot around the RO table. It usually start out with "There was this guy from Michigan, who...."

[uscbigdawg]

Well...not having my match count for score, is more than disappointing. The wife (by then) and I were going to go until reading this thread. So at every other match we RO at, we can magically have the RO's shoot the match and their scores count but once again our National championship leaves its members wanting.

Rich