[Pittbug]

There's so much in that book that I'm going to have to read it a few more times and take notes. Since this sport is pretty much a solo sport, where you learn on your own, I didn't know where to begin. I now have a much better understanding of what and how I need to restructure certain things in my head.

[fourtrax]

The key for me after reading that book was the mental program. I have Steve Anderson's book and he states a simple mental program that helped me a good bit. "Shoot "A's" at my natural speed" If I can mentally run the stage as a movie in my head, then I shoot it tons better. I have learned to try to run the movie like a camera behind me, and I try to run the movie like the camera is my eyes and I see the gun "floating" in front of me. It is harder to do the latter, but I'm getting better at it. I think the "camera is the eyes is better, but that could just be for me. I try to never use "words" in my mind. I just run the video in my head without words and then get that feeling and at the buzzer execute. Great book!

[benos]

fourtrax, on Feb 6 2009, 04:10 PM, said:

I try to never use "words" in my mind. I just run the video in my head without words and then get that feeling and at the buzzer execute.

Good stuff. It took me quite a while to figure that out.

I also learned to include how I'd feel, in specific places throughout a stage, in the rehearsal movie.

Always get started with a calm feeling.
be

[kaiserb]

benos, on Feb 6 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

fourtrax, on Feb 6 2009, 04:10 PM, said:

I try to never use "words" in my mind. I just run the video in my head without words and then get that feeling and at the buzzer execute.

Good stuff. It took me quite a while to figure that out.

I also learned to include how I'd feel, in specific places throughout a stage, in the rehearsal movie.

Always get started with a calm feeling.
be

I noticed after the last couple of club matches while trying "to shoot A's at my natural speed" I became faster on average. During the last club match I kept thinking about the speed I gained, and dropped back to slow shooting. It is really difficult to stay in subconscious thought mode, without thinking consciously about it.

[jasmap]

I have been wanting to read this for a long time now. After reading this thread I just broke down and ordered it. Thanks!

[Rbelote]

I plan to read the book atleast 10 more times. It is an amazing book.

[jasmap]

Ok, just got it in the mail this weekend. I'm starting it tomorrow night when I go out of town.

[sheepdog]

Question
Is this more about mind-set or visualization or both? I know that competence breeds confidence, but that doesn't seem to help when I shoot SO much better (according to the timer and plate rack) with no one watching than with. Same, to some extent, in front of people in a match stage. I've found I shoot my best when I sort of "accidentally forget" that nobody is watching me on a stage. Just wish I could learn to call it out all the time.

This post has been edited by sheepdog: 17 February 2009 - 05:21 AM

[sirveyr]

sheepdog, on Feb 17 2009, 06:20 AM, said:

Question
Is this more about mind-set or visualization or both? I know that competence breeds confidence, but that doesn't seem to help when I shoot SO much better (according to the timer and plate rack) with no one watching than with. Same, to some extent, in front of people in a match stage. I've found I shoot my best when I sort of "accidentally forget" that nobody is watching me on a stage. Just wish I could learn to call it out all the time.

I feel Lanny's book is about both.

To answer your other question/observation...Maybe when you are shooting at matches, you don't want to win...you just want to shoot. Wanting to do something is a contradiction, it places limits on what you can actually do. I think this is how Brian said it in his book...

[FranDoc]

You may also want to read "The Inner Game of Tennis" (Tim Gallwey), and "Thinking Body, Dancing Mind" (Jerry Lynch -- also www.wayofchampions.com).

The latter is interesting in that visualization is the first skill/method discussed, rather than anything more thought-based.

This post has been edited by FranDoc: 17 February 2009 - 07:44 AM

[sheepdog]

Quote

To answer your other question/observation...Maybe when you are shooting at matches, you don't want to win...you just want to shoot. Wanting to do something is a contradiction, it places limits on what you can actually do. I think this is how Brian said it in his book...

Guess I'll get the BE/BF book out and read that part, but a lot of the abstract stuff is TOUGH for me. I'm sort of a black and white, put it on paper, show me a diagram, physical mechanics, and video demo kind of personality. I'm just now grasping "shoot as fast as you can see."
And thanks, BTW.

[Tzygä]

You can get Lenny's book also in Audio CD.

[Calmwater]

Much like the title of this thread, I just finished With Winning in Mind. I have heard people say "Just think positive" or "Just don't think about anything". That is much easier said than done. I think Lanny's book does a good job of explaining how. I was worried when I heard it was a quick read that it would just be fluff. I should not have doubted the good advice about the book on this forum. It was definitely worth the money and time I spent on it. I learned lessons I will carry forward.........

[benos]

And at $12.95 - it's a no-brainer!
be

[uscbigdawg]

I'm about half way through it and will finish it this week. It has really changed my outlook and I'm starting to see that I am shooter that does well and a lot of that is that when I go to a match, I have done the practice and therefore expect to do well. That's not based in arrogance but rather a personal and positive expectation. The difference I try not to force that image, but rather hold it, take it in and then just relax and shoot.

We shot a modified steel challenge last week and will second BE's read on the Steel Challenge in that it is pure shooting. You can learn SOOO much from 5, 5-shot runs and 200 rounds of ammo that it's incredible that more folks don't do this. When I would just shoot, the runs were smooth and therefore they just WERE fast. When I had a bad first or second run, there were times that I'd push to try and make up that bad run, completely not thinking that it's a throw away. Shoot the remaining runs the way you can. Relax. See the spot on the plate you want to hit, and just shoot the plate.

I'm going to re-read it and then from it, write a pre-fitness training, pre-dry fire, pre-live fire and pre-match affirming statement. Some nice mental and emotional cues to get my head where I believe I can be.

Rich

[benos]

uscbigdawg, on Mar 22 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

I'm about half way through it and will finish it this week. It has really changed my outlook and I'm starting to see that I am shooter that does well and a lot of that is that when I go to a match, I have done the practice and therefore expect to do well. That's not based in arrogance but rather a personal and positive expectation. The difference I try not to force that image, but rather hold it, take it in and then just relax and shoot.

We shot a modified steel challenge last week and will second BE's read on the Steel Challenge in that it is pure shooting. You can learn SOOO much from 5, 5-shot runs and 200 rounds of ammo that it's incredible that more folks don't do this. When I would just shoot, the runs were smooth and therefore they just WERE fast. When I had a bad first or second run, there were times that I'd push to try and make up that bad run, completely not thinking that it's a throw away. Shoot the remaining runs the way you can. Relax. See the spot on the plate you want to hit, and just shoot the plate.

I'm going to re-read it and then from it, write a pre-fitness training, pre-dry fire, pre-live fire and pre-match affirming statement. Some nice mental and emotional cues to get my head where I believe I can be.

Rich

Good stuff Rich. Especially the mental statements for the various realms of training and competition. Back in the day, I was a note taking / reviewing machine. Especially for the big, once-a-year matches.
be

[9MX]

This thread reminded me that I am scheduled to re-read the book again! Thanks guys!

[sobrbiker883]

I've been meaning to get the book or CD for a long time now, just never seem to get around to it. I'm still working on BE's book.
Good stuff.

[Field]

kaiserb, on Feb 6 2009, 09:22 PM, said:

I noticed after the last couple of club matches while trying "to shoot A's at my natural speed" I became faster on average. During the last club match I kept thinking about the speed I gained, and dropped back to slow shooting. It is really difficult to stay in subconscious thought mode, without thinking consciously about it.

yeah i know what you mean. you are doing something, you do something really well and then you think "damn that was pretty good" and then you lose your zonage.

[Allgoodhits]

benos, on Mar 16 2009, 07:44 PM, said:

And at $12.95 - it's a no-brainer!
be

In the Lanny approach that would be, .... at $12.95 it's a brainer!

I have purchase the book, the cd's from BE store and given some as gifts toothers. I know Lanny wasn't the first to deal with and conquer much of this stuff, but he certainly has bundled it into concepts, analagies and coined phrases and titles better than anyone else that I am aware of.

Do yourself a favor and buy the entire series, from BE Store, Mental Management package and Freedom Flight & With Winning in Mind. Collectively these tools, if used as he suggests, will do more for you than 3 times there cost in ammo.

MJ

This post has been edited by Allgoodhits: 18 October 2009 - 10:14 AM

[S391]

Tzygä, on Feb 17 2009, 04:36 PM, said:

You can get Lenny's book also in Audio CD.

I just ordered the audio CD... I find that I don't have time to sit and read much these days but I can always find a way to have a CD playing as I go about my normal daily routine. It may not be as good as sitting down and reading it but I figure that I can listen to it over and over and let it soak in along the way......

[Allgoodhits]

S391, on Nov 4 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

Tzygä, on Feb 17 2009, 04:36 PM, said:

You can get Lenny's book also in Audio CD.

I just ordered the audio CD... I find that I don't have time to sit and read much these days but I can always find a way to have a CD playing as I go about my normal daily routine. It may not be as good as sitting down and reading it but I figure that I can listen to it over and over and let it soak in along the way......

Good choice. You will not regret that purchase. Lanny's Mental Management on CD is awesome, and it too is available on BENOS.

MJ

[Graham Smith]

benos, on Feb 6 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

Always get started with a calm feeling.

I need to have that etched into my shooting glasses so I see it every time I shoot.

It's difficult to reconcile the need to remain calm as you race through a COF but it is incredibly important to control the flow of adrenaline. It's also ironic that adrenaline can be both a great help and a great hindrance.

But, if it were easy, anyone could do it.

[jmorris]

I think the best thing I obtained from the book followed with practice is "presents" in the stage, so if anything unexpected takes place the "wheels don’t fall off".

I guess it's like knowing if you drop an egg you should try and catch it but if you drop an anvil you need to move your toes. You don't have time to "think" about it you just do it instinctively.

This post has been edited by jmorris: 10 November 2009 - 02:24 PM

[benos]

jmorris, on Nov 10 2009, 02:20 PM, said:

I think the best thing I obtained from the book followed with practice is "presents" in the stage, so if anything unexpected takes place the "wheels don’t fall off".

I guess it's like knowing if you drop an egg you should try and catch it but if you drop an anvil you need to move your toes. You don't have time to "think" about it you just do it instinctively.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I prefer the word instinctively over subconsciously to describe the "zone realm" of doing anything.

I googled "subconscious, and the words on wikipedia pretty much summed up how I feel about the use of the word subconscious.

"Instinctive" is an interesting word to me, because some things we naturally do instinctively - like move away from a precipice for example - but many things we don't. So in a particular field, we have to train the things we don't instinctively until they become instinctive responses.

A couple shooting examples. Immediately reach for a new mag if you fumble one during a mag change. Wait until you know you will hit the target before you pull the trigger.

be