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Loading long range rifle ammo... How anal do you wanna get?

#1 User is offline   kgunz11 

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 07:10 PM

What sort of accuracy improvement are you looking for? To go from 1 MOA to 0.5 MOA is fairly easy, but to go from 0.5 to 0.25 is harder, and to get 0.1 MOA requires all the little things to work together, plus the big nut behind the trigger.

The way I order the critical factors is this:

1. The ammo
2. The rifle
3. The consistency of the conditions
4. The skill of the shooter

The critical factors and the order in which they are placed has been argued before, and to a certain extent is an opinion of the correspondent. Please take it to another thread if you wish to argue about it.

You've asked about case prep, that's what I'll cover. Bullet preparation is something else, if you've got a consistent lot you won't have to do anything, and I'll assume the bullets are consistent and/or sorted.

This is also sorted by the amount you'll have to spend for tools, because if you want to shrink your groups, you have to be able to measure the results of your efforts.

To go from 1 MOA to 0.5 MOA or better, do the following:

1. Starting with new, quality brass, and do the primer pockets, flash holes, trim to length, size and champher.

2. If you can, measure the neck wall thickness at several places on the neck, setting aside anything with greater than 0.0015" variance for practice.

3. After this, weigh the cases and sort into 0.5 gr. groups. Go to step 7.

4. After you've fired the brass, clean it in a tumbler, remove the primers, clean the primer pockets.

5. Inspect the cases, and set aside any with an obvious balloon to one side of the case or banana shape for practice.

6. Size the brass with either a full length or neck sizing die.

7. Trim to length and chamfer.

8. Seat the primers with a hand priming tool.

9. Weigh your power charges or use a quality thrower.

10. Use a standard seating die to seat the bullet.

11. Test primer, powder and seating depth combinations for best groups.

To get 0.25 MOA or better, do the following:

1. Follow steps number 1 and 2 above for new brass.

2. Neck-turn the remaining brass, setting aside the brass which didn't have any valleys. This is keeper match stuff. Use it for longer distances, etc. Make sure you trim far enough into the shoulder to avoid donuts, anywhere from 0.010" to 0.030", depending upon the brass and the cutting angle at the shoulder end of the neck turning tool.

3. Neck turn the brass again after letting it rest for a day or two.

4. Your goal is a neck case variance of less than 0.0003".

5. Clean and polish the cases.

6. After this, weigh the cases and sort into 0.5 gr. groups.

7. Seat the primers with a hand priming tool.

8. Weigh your powder charges to +/- 0.1 gr. on a quality scale. Be aware of how your scale functions in terms of settling, sensitivity, and grain size/shape of the powder.

9. Using a quality seating die, seat the bullets to +/- 0.001, measured at the ogive.

10. Rotate the case 120 or 180 degrees as you are seating the bullet, I would recommend the use of a qualtiy seater, and keep the length tolerance at the ogive to +/- 0.001".

11. Test each round for concentricity. The goal is 0.0015" TIR at the ogive measurement point.

12. For fired brass, deprime and clean the primer pockets with your uniformer.

13. Clean the brass with Iosso, Birchwood-Casey Case cleaner, or your buddies favorite mystery combo of Simply-Green, lemon juice, Dawn, etc. Then finish clean and polish in a tumbler with corn cob and a quality polish.

14. Neck size or full length the cases with a quality die which uses a neck bushing to control neck tension. Every diemaker screws up occasionally, so if you have problems, check with another die. Figure out what neck tension works best with your load; this is another variable to test when checking which primer, powder, and seating depth works best. Again, put any cases with a balloon to one side or banana shape aside to use for practice.

14. Neck turn the brass again if once fired, you shouldn't have to repeat this step again until you have ten or more firings on the case.

15. Trim to length an chamfer.

16. Clean to remove lube, and polish the brass again.

17. Seat a primer in the case, rotating the case 120 to 180 degrees to ensure the primer isn't seated to one side of the pocket.

18. See steps 8, 9, 10 and 11 of the 0.25 MOA instructions.

19. See step 11 of the 0.5 MOA instructions, adding a test for neck tension after the other steps.

Be aware of the effects of temperature on your load, reduce or increase the powder charge to maintain the best accuracy level. Always follow good reloading procedures; starting low and working up with powder charges, at least off the lands by 0.020" to start, seating the bullet deeper into the case by 0.005" can push a load over the edge.

General rules:

Keep the torque on the nut behind the trigger consistent and relaxed.

If firing a string of five or more shots, don't leave a round in the chamber longer than 45 seconds.

Learn the POI of the first three shots if shooting a long string, the tenth and higher shot in a long string seems to have a different POI, also.


YMMV, but it works for me. Are all these steps necessary? Absolutely not. Can you achieve under .5MOA accuracy without doing some of the steps? Of course, but with what consistency? Some of these steps I simply have found to be a total waste of time and I consider them being overly anal retentive. I've loaded 25 rounds of the same charge with some of the steps excluded and shot them in a series of 5 test (125 rounds total fired to rule out some variables) and found some steps really offer very little gain. It really boils down to how much you enjoy it and how much better it makes you sleep at night or feel on match day. I like to have 100% confidence that every round in my box is as consistent as I can possible make them.

Hope this information helps someone out there. :cheers:
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#2 User is offline   ken hebert 

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 10:48 AM

Thanks. :cheers:
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#3 User is offline   edgerat 

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 10:23 PM

this doesn't really go hand in hand with the reloading-lean of this thread but having a custom reamer built off a dummy round will go a long ways towards getting that .25 or less rifle as well. :cheers:
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#4 User is offline   kgunz11 

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 10:45 PM

Only if you can 100% replicate/duplicate that round. Controlling neck tension and having it consistent from one round to the next is extremely critical at long range. Internal case volume is also. Shooting .5MOA at 1k is akin to shooting .25MOA at 100. I've done better at both so I know it can be done when the stars are aligned.
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The proper application of a firearm in a practical situation requires carefully executed tactics.
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#5 User is offline   edgerat 

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 11:54 AM

View Postkgunz11, on Feb 1 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

Only if you can 100% replicate/duplicate that round. Controlling neck tension and having it consistent from one round to the next is extremely critical at long range. Internal case volume is also.


correcto! I am know enough to be dangerous but was lucky enough that my smith would load my rounds for me. He never measured case weight because he found that it made no difference. Getting the neck tension right, making the necks are the same and full-length re-sizing every time were the most important things. redding FL sizing die and wilson competition bullet seaters and the rest is up to the wind and the driver.
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#6 User is offline   kgunz11 

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 12:04 PM

I agree, case weight has little to do with anything. People use to separate by case weight, and it's just silly. The correct way to separate a new set of virgin brass is by internal volume. Those that separated by weight thought they were segregating somewhat by the volume because the theory is that the heavier a case the less internal volume, and matching like weighted cases was grouping together brass thought to be near same. Again, it was a theory and doesn't always work that way. Let me also say, I don't sort. ;)
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#7 User is offline   milanuk 

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:33 PM

The problem is... that virgin cases bear little resemblance dimensionally to the chamber they are going to be fired in. In particular, my favorite love-hate affair, Winchester .308 brass. Notoriously under-sized in almost every dimension, including OAL, case head diameter, etc. yet they still shoot surprisingly well.

I did an experiment a while back attempting to show an actual statistical correlation between case weight, volume, and MV. There *was* a correlation between weight and MV, but not a very strong one. Just enough to be statistically significant... which may not be the same as 'meaningful' in the real world. The water volume of the (virgin) cases was measured as well... and showed almost zero correlation. That one had me scratching my head for a bit - especially since I was doing this for a final paper for an intro stats class ;) I bounced the data off some people who do 'swear by' measuring volume for their match loads... to a man they all confirmed the need to *fireform* the cases first, then sort by volume if that is what you intend to do.

One of these days I plan to go back and re-do the experiment... and fire the cases *three times* - once to fire-form, and then again to see what I can see from water volume sorting... and again just to see how the numbers from firing #2 compare to #3.

Might have to do it with the .223, though... the .308 is getting expensive to feed ;)
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#8 User is offline   SA Friday 

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 07:32 PM

View Postmilanuk, on Feb 2 2009, 07:33 PM, said:

The problem is... that virgin cases bear little resemblance dimensionally to the chamber they are going to be fired in. In particular, my favorite love-hate affair, Winchester .308 brass. Notoriously under-sized in almost every dimension, including OAL, case head diameter, etc. yet they still shoot surprisingly well.

I did an experiment a while back attempting to show an actual statistical correlation between case weight, volume, and MV. There *was* a correlation between weight and MV, but not a very strong one. Just enough to be statistically significant... which may not be the same as 'meaningful' in the real world. The water volume of the (virgin) cases was measured as well... and showed almost zero correlation. That one had me scratching my head for a bit - especially since I was doing this for a final paper for an intro stats class ;) I bounced the data off some people who do 'swear by' measuring volume for their match loads... to a man they all confirmed the need to *fireform* the cases first, then sort by volume if that is what you intend to do.

One of these days I plan to go back and re-do the experiment... and fire the cases *three times* - once to fire-form, and then again to see what I can see from water volume sorting... and again just to see how the numbers from firing #2 compare to #3.

Might have to do it with the .223, though... the .308 is getting expensive to feed ;)

I would love to see the results of that. It would be valuable stuff.
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#9 User is offline   kgunz11 

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 08:15 PM

One might could argue that chamber volume is always constant, while the brass might be a variable, thus reinforcing the theory behind the brass weight theory. The more the piece of brass weighs the more room it will take up in the chamber.

Interesting things can be seen in any Ackley version of a caliber. For example, in fire forming brass for the .223 AI, you can load to AI pressures and get AI results out of a non-improved piece of virgin brass, all because the chamber is there for the expansion and is roomy enough to prevent over pressure.
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The proper application of a firearm in a practical situation requires carefully executed tactics.
To learn more about these tactics visit The Practical Marksman

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who matter won't mind and those who mind don't matter."
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"It's a marathon, not a sprint." OpenShooterGirl '09


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