[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I was wondering what you guys would prefer to load on. I have a Dillon 1050 and a 550. I will need dies, conversion kit and a swager for the 550. The price is about the same for the total package for each. I was also looking at using both presses possibly. Lastly what media do you use in your tumblers for 223. I use corn cob for the pistol brass but know it will get stuck in the rifle case. What size media as well please. I appreciate any info you can give. Thanks, Eric

[uscbigdawg]

1050, but I load 223 on a 650 with zero issues.

Rich

[RiggerJJ]

If you have a 1050, use it for 223, the deswager is the clincher. set up 2 heads, one for brass prep, the other for just loading. the Dillon trimmer works great on the brass prep head too.

look for extra fine corncob at feed stores, pet stores, etc. it will do 223 cases just great.

jj

[warpspeed]

I've loaded it both ways and the 1050 is much better.

I do have 2 head set up for the brass prep but if you are buying pre-prepped brass then you won't need 2.

As for the media, it does not matter. what you do need is a universal decaping die. Put it in the resizing die spot and it will punch out any media that might get stuck in the flash hole.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Ok, it seems you like the 1050 idea as well as I do. Now, what die setups should I be using? Dillon dies or something else? I can get a bunch of once fired brass for free. I would like to order the stuff this week to get started. I appreciate the info Thanks, Eric

[BerKim]

It's not the dies so much.. it's the prep step that gets complicated.

How to trim, etc. - you'll need to search the whole brass prep steps.

For dies: Dillon for me, with the Redding Comp Seater.

[warpspeed]

Starting with once fired brass that has been tumbled clean:

Tool head in 1050 has the following:

RCBS 223 full length sizing die. I have used both Small Base and regular for this. I like the SB.

Set the swage to dillon specs using a cut in half 223 case.

Now, lube the brass with Dillon spray lube and into the feeder it goes. Brass gets full length sized and primer pocket swaged / uniformed.


Now brass gets trimmed to length. I use a Gracey trimmer. It is bench mounted and looks like a pencil sharpener.

I suppose you could mount the Dillon Rapid trim in the toolhead where the seating die goes as well. it would certainly speed things up.

After trimming, it gets tumbled again to remove any brass shavings and clean off the lube. Brass is no prepped and ready to load.

I prep about 2 - 3 K cases at a time.


Loading tool head has a universal decapping die, Redding Competition Seating Die and a Redding Taper Crimp.

Brass in the feeder and start loading.

[RiggerJJ]

I've got basically the same setup as Warp...

tumble and lube prior to dumping into case feeder...

brass prep head, postion #s;
1.Dillon carbid full length resizer/decapper
2.de-swager
3.
4.neck sizer without decapper, just to bump the shoulder so it is square'er at the inside corner, helps with tight chambers.
5.Dillon trimmer
6.
7.

tumble to remove lube and shavings

reloading die, head position #s;
1. universal decapper to remove media from flash hole
2.de-swager - yes I do it 2 times for each case (military once fired brass is all I use)
3.primer
4.powder
5.
6.competition seat die
7.crimper (set very lightly)

You do not need lube on the case in when using the loading head, you arn't resizing anything. (so you can use moly bullets if desired)

I trim to 1.750 and load to 2.240 OAL.

be careful with FC brass, it has swaged primers, but when de-swaging you can over do it and have primer popping, at least thats been my experience. I won't use FC.

I do not chamfer or deburr. tumbling after trimming removes all the burrs, and I found I actually had better accuracy by not chamfering or deburring

I do a 5 gallon bucket or two at a time with the prep head, then load it as needed.

When using the Dillon trimmer, do a two potato count at the bottom of the stroke to give the trimmer time to complete the trim, or you will get varied lengths and more burrs will be stuck to the case. (and wear ear plugs, that trimmer/vacuum combination is noisy)

All postitions on the prep head must be populated to get a uniform trim.

for the de-swager position you will need (I recommend anyway) the top die for that position. call Dillon and ask them what it is called. It holds down on the case so when the de-swager pushes up it gets a good de-swage.

jj

(edited trim length)

This post has been edited by RiggerJJ: 13 January 2009 - 09:03 PM

[SharonAnne9x23]

those who load 5.56 on a 1050; how about this setup?

1. RCBS lube/deprime die
2. Dillon carbide sizing die
5. Redding Competition Seater die
6. Redding Taper crimp die

I would use the carbide sizer without the decapping pin and adjust the stem all the way down to hold the case down just like the stem in the Dillon swage die setup.

or maybe
5. powder check die
6&7 as 5&6 above

[BerKim]

Make sure somewhere, after trimming that the neck has an expander ball run through it.

Either put in on after the trim (this will help break off brass the trimmer left too), or put a nexk size in Stage 1 when loading.

I prefer after the trimmer, than I always know the brass is 100% ready to load.

[RiggerJJ]

BerKim, on Jan 13 2009, 06:28 PM, said:

Make sure somewhere, after trimming that the neck has an expander ball run through it.

Either put in on after the trim (this will help break off brass the trimmer left too), or put a nexk size in Stage 1 when loading.

I prefer after the trimmer, than I always know the brass is 100% ready to load.

The top die on the deswager station accomplishes this, and also will put a slight bell in the mouth of the case for easy bullet seating.

jj

[Chills1994]

If you can get your AR brass back (after it has been slung to parts unknown ), I would highly recommend the RCBS X-sizer die.

Size once, trim once load up and fire away.

Re-size with the RCBS X-sizer die and never trim that brass again.

Then there is NO more of this on the press off the press back on the press, two toolhead combobulations, especially if you don't have the Dillon trimmer that mounts to the toolhead in the first place.

If you go here:

http://www.rcbs.com/

There is a video showing a cutaway of how the RCBS X-sizer die works.

This post has been edited by Chills1994: 13 January 2009 - 09:26 PM

[warpspeed]

Chills1994, on Jan 13 2009, 08:24 PM, said:

If you can get your AR brass back (after it has been slung to parts unknown ), I would highly recommend the RCBS X-sizer die.

That is a very big if.

[Chills1994]

If it's that big of an "if", then maybe one would be better off pricing out steel cased .223 ammo (if it could be found at all via the various internet ammo dealers...well... ya know.. considering the timing... ) versus what it would cost for them to get properly outfitted to reload .223 + whatever they think their time is worth + consumable components = X

If it's gonna be "fire and forget" whether it's steel or brass and X is close to or over the price of Wolf or Bear (by the case... or pallet load), then go with the Wolf or Bear.

On the other hand..... there's this steel case reloading video...

a person could buy a magnetic yard sweeper:



and be sure to get all their steel cases back (and then some )

And then reload them.

Not that the RCBS X-sizer die would work on 'em, though....

[Chills1994]

Oh yeah... I almost forgot... for my brass cased reloads that have been through the RCBS X-sizer die I was just gonna run a red marker around the body of the case.

Those red stripes really do stand out on either a gravel or grass range floor.

[RiggerJJ]

AFAIK, the X die is primarily for BOLT guns. the operation of a bolt gun does little if anything to strech the case. Not so in an auto or semi auto. (like an AR) the case gets streched when fired because of the extractor pulling it out of the chamber when its hot and stuck to the chamber. putting this case into a X die to me looks like it will just try to jam the brass back into the shorter length, probably not something you want to do. IMHO, you can only get maybe 3 firings on a 223 case (fired in auto loaders) anyway before the lot starts showing major streching and weak spots that will seperate when extracted leaving the top part of the case in the chamber, effectively turning your $3k+ AR into a club for the rest of the stage.
Most of the trimming happens after the 1st firing anyway.

Also, from what I see, most of the streching during reloading/resizing is done by the expander ball in the sizer die during extraction of the expander ball from the case, something the X die cannot prevent. Most bolt gunners don't full length resize anyway, so I'm not really sure what the X die is for...

I inspect twice and 3x fired cases inside by sticking a small LED into the primer pocket and looking into the neck. If I see the case is starting to show cracking from streching, out it goes into the scrap brass bucket. I have seen too many people try to get just one more firing and end up with case seperation, and Murphy dictates that it MUST happen at the worst time.

Maybe I'm just paranoid...but haven't had any case seperations, yet...(I really need that emoticon that shows knocking on a knobby wooden head) I think brass prep and inspection is the most important part of reloading 223 for a 3gun AR.

jj

ps; as far as reloading steel cases, I have no experience...

This post has been edited by RiggerJJ: 14 January 2009 - 08:04 AM

[warpspeed]

I'm not as worried about a split neck as I am about a loose primer pocket. I have reloaded 2 and 3 times fired brass and can tell if it is my brass due but I am not a big fan of it.

[Chills1994]

@ RiggerJJ...

You didn't go to RCBS.com and watch the video, did you?

Tisk... tisk... tisk...

I called RCBS technical support before I even ordered the X dies (one for .223 and one for .308) and I specifically told the tech support guy:

Quote

This will be for an AR.

His reply then was:

Quote

Oh, in that case, you will want the small base X sizer die. It squeezes the case down just a little bit more and makes your AR more reliable with your handloads.

slight thread drift on...

While I had him on the phone, I went ahead and asked about their micrometer adjustable bullet seating die. I thought the side port or window feature of the one I saw was pretty neat. No mashing your finger trying to keep a bullet from flopping over before it makes its way into the bullet seating die. Just drop the bullet in through a side port and run the case up in there. (yeah, yeah, I know a slight chamfer or bell in addition to using a boat tail shaped bullet would help with that).

One of their micrometer adjustable seating dies is not threaded long enough for progressive presses. That is called their "competiton" dies and run about $72 through Midway.

It 's their Gold Medal seater that I want, but it runs about $105. Yeah, just for one die....

I guess I will have to be satisfied by the Redding MABSD, for now...

There's always the paper clip trick for checking insipient case head separation in your brass.

This post has been edited by Chills1994: 14 January 2009 - 08:32 AM

[RiggerJJ]

Warp,
Case seperation isn't split necks, the case breaks into two pieces, one left in the chamber and the other comes out with the extractor. kinda ends your day (well, your stage anyway) unless you happen to have a broken case puller in your pocket...and I do try to carry one at major matches.
I also worry about blowing primers, and won't use FC because it has been the worse for me for that.

Chills,
Yea, I did watch the video...Good on ya if the X die works for you, isn't that what its all about, get it set up so it works for you? I haven't tried one, so I can't say one way or the other, just was going on what I have been told by the "ol timers".

My realibility with the Dillon Carbide full length die is a close to 100% as I can get, 99.9% (the other 0.1% gets culled out with the case guage). How can I argue with that?

I tried the paperclip thing, and found I could actually see more with the LED inspection thing, and its faster.

jj

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: So the dies I should use are RCBS X-die, Dillon sizer, Redding comp seater OR Hornady seater and a Dillon crimp die. How does that sound so far? To size the cases a Dillon trimmer mounted in a single stage press outside in the garage (too loud for inside). Anything else I am missing? Thanks, Eric

[Chills1994]

Yeah, man... different strokes for different folks.

Another member here, Derek45, was the one who clued me in about the Possum Hollow cutter and tool holder.

I have a floor model drill press that sits idle 99.999999% of the time, so I ordered the PHC and tool holder from Sinclair International.

There is a video floating around YouTube of a guy using the PHC in a cordless drill. He just props the drill on his knee and inserts the cases like a pencil into an electric pencil sharpener. Zip... zip.. throws it into a 5 gallon bucket.

I have probably posted a link to that video before.

I also bought the PHC before I bought a 650. I just had a 550 at the time, which is kinda limited as far as space goes on the toolhead.

I just couldn't see myself spending 200 or 300 dollars for a high end trimmer.

And I already knew about the RCBS X-sizer die. Maybe if the X-sizer die had never been invented, then I would have been looking at getting a fancy case trimmer.

Fire once. Resize with the mandrel up. Trim 20 thousandths, I think, under the trim to specs. Then resize with the X sizer die's mandrel screwed down.

Then never trim again.

Just keep resizing with the X die with the mandrel in the down position. So after the initial resizing, and then trimming, with the X die the brass stays on the press for one whole trip and gets turned into a complete loaded round. Like I said, NO more on the press, trim off the press, back on the press rigamorale.

Supposedly, according to the reloading manuals the case stretches and grows in length when it is fired.

In '94, when I first tried reloading .308 brass...jeesh.. yeah, it kinda hit me that having the case mouth get pulled back over the expander ball is also what made cases grow. (ARgggh.... why am I having to lift up on this handle so hard?...arrggh.. ).

I guess that's why they invented mica.... to lube the case mouths with.

This post has been edited by Chills1994: 14 January 2009 - 09:18 PM

[RiggerJJ]

by the way, to fully answer aircooled6racer's 2nd part;

The corn cob I use is called "Grit o Cob", its major use is for sandblasting but also for vibrator/tumbling polishing. The size I use is 1014, whatever that means.... It works great for polishing 223 brass, and does NOT get packed into the case and not come out, which can be a REAL PITA!!! (ask me how I know...)
as you may have deducted, if you use too large of corncob media, it WILL get stuck in the case.

anyway, I did a google search for "grit o cob" and found this;
http://ntruddockcomp...w...?&forward=1

looks like you can get 50# bags...

jj

[AZ-Ranger]

Chills1994, on Jan 14 2009, 05:22 PM, said:

Yeah, man... different strokes for different folks.

Another member here, Derek45, was the one who clued me in about the Possum Hollow cutter and tool holder.

I have a floor model drill press that sits idle 99.999999% of the time, so I ordered the PHC and tool holder from Sinclair International.

There is a video floating around YouTube of a guy using the PHC in a cordless drill. He just props the drill on his knee and inserts the cases like a pencil into an electric pencil sharpener. Zip... zip.. throws it into a 5 gallon bucket.

I have probably posted a link to that video before.

I also bought the PHC before I bought a 650. I just had a 550 at the time, which is kinda limited as far as space goes on the toolhead.

I just couldn't see myself spending 200 or 300 dollars for a high end trimmer.

And I already knew about the RCBS X-sizer die. Maybe if the X-sizer die had never been invented, then I would have been looking at getting a fancy case trimmer.

Fire once. Resize with the mandrel up. Trim 20 thousandths, I think, under the trim to specs. Then resize with the X sizer die's mandrel screwed down.

Then never trim again.

Just keep resizing with the X die with the mandrel in the down position. So after the initial resizing, and then trimming, with the X die the brass stays on the press for one whole trip and gets turned into a complete loaded round. Like I said, NO more on the press, trim off the press, back on the press rigamorale.

Supposedly, according to the reloading manuals the case stretches and grows in length when it is fired.

In '94, when I first tried reloading .308 brass...jeesh.. yeah, it kinda hit me that having the case mouth get pulled back over the expander ball is also what made cases grow. (ARgggh.... why am I having to lift up on this handle so hard?...arrggh.. ).

I guess that's why they invented mica.... to lube the case mouths with.

I read a review on Midway and the reviewer states the X die does no better than their standard SB die.

Can you give us any info on how many loadings/trimmings/experience you have had since using the X die?

[Joe D]

Eric, I use walnut to polish. No problems with media stuck in case. Trim???? What is that? I very rarely trim cases. One would be surprised at how forgiving an AR chamber is. Don't forget a rifle case head spaces on the shoulder not the case mouth.
I have fired cases 1.770" without any issues.
I use a simple deburring bit chucked up in a drill press to remove a crimp. Just turn the press on and stick the case against the bit. Takes about 2 seconds to remove the crimp.

[Merlin Orr]

So it's been a while since anyone posted on this thread. i am interested in seeing if anyone has anything new to add.

So Chills.... Did you actually use one of the X sizer dies... or not...?

I have a big pile of various "stuff" on the bench and thought I would ask one more time before I started screwing things up dies in the tool heads....