[frogger]

I am considering buying a 9mm 1911 to use in ESP for IDPA. I want to have a spare gun in the range bag in case I have a failure during a match. Does it have to be exactly the same as the one I started the match with? For example, if I use an STI Trojan 5.0 9mm and it breaks, can I pull a Kimber Tactical Pro II 9mm or a Para LTC 9mm out of the range bag and finish the match or would this be against the rules since the original gun is a 5" 1911 and the other guns are 4" 1911's? I would think logically that as long as they were both 1911 pattern guns in the same caliber and the same capacity and both legal for the division you are competing in, it shouldn't matter, but I want to make sure. I just hate to spend the money on two identical guns if I can get a little variety and still use it as a backup.

[Chills1994]

[SDM]

frogger, on Dec 12 2008, 02:43 AM, said:

I am considering buying a 9mm 1911 to use in ESP for IDPA. I want to have a spare gun in the range bag in case I have a failure during a match. Does it have to be exactly the same as the one I started the match with? For example, if I use an STI Trojan 5.0 9mm and it breaks, can I pull a Kimber Tactical Pro II 9mm or a Para LTC 9mm out of the range bag and finish the match or would this be against the rules since the original gun is a 5" 1911 and the other guns are 4" 1911's? I would think logically that as long as they were both 1911 pattern guns in the same caliber and the same capacity and both legal for the division you are competing in, it shouldn't matter, but I want to make sure. I just hate to spend the money on two identical guns if I can get a little variety and still use it as a backup.

It says you can use a different pistol of the same type, action, and caliber. It then uses the different Glock 9mm guns as an example. If you start with a 5” 9mm 1911 and it “becomes unserviceable” you should be ok switching to a 4” 9mm 1911.

[RickB]

SDM, on Dec 12 2008, 03:07 AM, said:

frogger, on Dec 12 2008, 02:43 AM, said:

I am considering buying a 9mm 1911 to use in ESP for IDPA. I want to have a spare gun in the range bag in case I have a failure during a match. Does it have to be exactly the same as the one I started the match with? For example, if I use an STI Trojan 5.0 9mm and it breaks, can I pull a Kimber Tactical Pro II 9mm or a Para LTC 9mm out of the range bag and finish the match or would this be against the rules since the original gun is a 5" 1911 and the other guns are 4" 1911's? I would think logically that as long as they were both 1911 pattern guns in the same caliber and the same capacity and both legal for the division you are competing in, it shouldn't matter, but I want to make sure. I just hate to spend the money on two identical guns if I can get a little variety and still use it as a backup.

It says you can use a different pistol of the same type, action, and caliber. It then uses the different Glock 9mm guns as an example. If you start with a 5” 9mm 1911 and it “becomes unserviceable” you should be ok switching to a 4” 9mm 1911.

That's my take on it, as well.
I used to allow a change to any gun that was legal within the same division, as long as the switch didn't seem to convey an advantage; I mean, if the rule says "the same" kind of gun, and the competitive divisions are intended to separate different types of guns, then any gun that's legal within a given division should be considered "the same". If your Government Model breaks, why shouldn't you be able to continue with a Glock 21, in CDP? Or, if your Glock 34 breaks, why not substitute a Hi-Power, if you're shooting ESP? From the perspective of the shooter, it's certainly more likely that you will have a second gun that's similar to your primary, than two identical guns. If we're trying to keep costs within reason, any gun that's legal for the division should be allowed as a replacement (stepping down from my soap box . . .).

[jsykes]

Rick, that is probably a very reasonable way to look at it, especially for local matches that many are competing in for fun. Now if its at Nationals or a state championship, then they may enforce the rules a little more closely, which is only to be expected.

At a local match a week or so ago, I was trying out a new 9 mm 1911 in ESP. I had some function issues with it and after two stages wanted to change back to my G34 so I could complete the match. No one had an issue and I just continued with my SSP G34, but continued to run in ESP of course as to not be gaining any kind of an advantage from the gun switch.

Again, for your average match, probably not an issue, but be prepared if you're traveling to higher profile matches with shooters that may be more serious about the competition, that they may not see things quite the same way.

[RickB]

The rule is explicit, I'm just lobbying for a change of rules.