[Rob D]

I've been shooting as many club matches as I can since april. I shot the Oklahoma sectional back in september and was exposed to activating targets for the first time. I've seen them at a few matches since then, and I've noticed that I have plenty room for improvement. I tend to find myself waiting for them. I know this is a waste of time, and there's often targets I can take between shooting the popper that activates the mover and the mover itself. Is there a good way to estimate what you're going to be able to accomplish between these two shots? We usually get to watch it activate once in the walkthrough, but my brain has a hard time translating the timing in the walkthrough into what I'll actually be able to accomplish in that time. Is there a method for timing this or do I just need to shoot a lot more activating targets until I get more familiar with my own abilities?

Thanks, any help is appreciated. Also, as always, if it's in another thread just point the way.

[Supermoto]

Most swingers are activated in 1-1.5 secs, you need to know how many other target you can engage in that time, it will depend on how far and difficult the targets are.... only experience will tell you how many other targets you can take.

Also realize that in the walk through the activator is pushed down faster than it would fall when shot, so it makes the activation seem faster

This post has been edited by Supermoto: 30 November 2008 - 06:00 PM

[Nik Habicht]

A couple of thoughts --- if the squad is doing the activation (embedded ROs) train the activators to tap the popper: That'll simulate actual activation speed a little better.
Watch any shooters going before you, see what they attempt and pay attention to their hits. If you know them and their abilities, you can develop a pretty good gauge for translating their performance to your plan.
Every stage is different --- on some a riskier plan might pay off, on others you might know going in that you'll need every point. Plan accordingly. Waiting for a mover sucks, rushing and nailing a penalty target or two, or missing all suck worse than waiting.....

In an ideal world, you'd always shoot the mover at a planned time after activation, on some stages that may not be possible. Try to figure a plan that allows for the fluidity required to spend the least amount of time waiting. By fluidity I mean this: When I hit that position if the mover's there I'll shoot it; if it's not I'll take these static targets and then shoot the mover...

[Duane Thomas]

Look at how the wire is tensioned between the activator and the mover. If it's drawn tight, the mover will activate much faster than if it's just laying "loose" on the ground. This can be important information to have while planning if, and how much, you can shoot between hitting the activator and engaging the mover.

[AlamoShooter]

You have to know what your transition times are , in order to come up with a good plan.
Like the transition time to a 6" plate is near twice what it is to a full size paper target,- For most shooters anyway-.
Picking up a metal plate target after the activator and before the moving target is a bit of a stretch for most shooters.
The next rule of thumb would be if you have to move your feet to get to extra target,= not such a great idea.

Get your self a some coaching, from a shooter that knows how to coach / teach. Teaching and coaching are not the same thing. A coach will evaluate what you are capable of, & help you make your best performance. with a push to get you to stretch to the next level.

Some one that says ....Slow down and make your hits. is just an experienced shooter ..."A smart shooter" but not a coach.
Good shooting has a lot of work behind it, lots of Dues to pay
Every dollar I have spent on coaching & teaching has come back to me 25 x what I spent. some of it 1,000 times

[FLL1911]

My action plan:

1. Discuss with other shooters how they are going to do, and use it considering their skills and division – their timing might be different from yours

2. What happens after the activation – What is the best time to engage? Close to the activation; the later the better; or something in between? Swingers that are not visible after they stop are better engaged (for me) just after 1 or 2 swings when the speed start to slow down just a little bit. If they are visible after they stop, the later the best. Targets that collapse after being activated, are better engaged (again, for me) iimmediately

3. What targets do I have before and after I activate? Can I hit some, activate, hit some more and they engage the target I just activated? I would consider the time that it would take to have the target ready after the activation and my time engaging the other targets (full paper targets take less time than small steel plates)

4. Build a target hit order based on all items above. There is no single answer as there is no single COF – each one requires analysis that matches your shooting skills and preferences.

[Thomas Moore]

get yourself a stopwatch and time the movers. you will need to know what your ability is on the transistions in order to find out what you can take after the activating target.

[kevin c]

What the others above said.

Through practice and matches, you'll learn how fast you can do things.

Through watching the actual activation of the target (every set up is different, even using the same equipment), you'll see how much time you have.

Some use a stopwatch. That helps especially when you're first starting out. Some instinctive shooters just know how much they can do in the time available (a sense developed over time).

It helps to visualize your run. It helps especially to visualize it in "real time" (the time it takes from the imagined beep to your imagined last shot is the same as the run itself).

[boz1911]

One note to add, the forward falling poppers like we had at the Nationals this year are slower to fall when shot than when someone pushes them over during the walkthrough.

[Flexmoney]

Seeing the activators demonstrated during a walk-through only tells part of the story. You only get the movement and speed of the prop, not the timing of the activation. Somebody manually pushing a popper over isn't going to give the timing.

Figure you have a full second before the popper gets that mover going. Now, figure out what you can do in that time frame. (Most can transition to the Alpha on a static paper target, shoot a split for another Alpha, then transition to the moving target in that time frame.)


Swingers and drop-turners...I treat them as if they were static targets. DT's are easy, because the A-zone is staying in the middle (and is about a foot tall). Swingers, they slow down...stop...then, start to go the other direction. If they are available to shoot at this junction, then they are ease...just like a static target.

Here is an example. The right popper falls on a suspended trip wire (you can see the supports). The swinger, it is shot at it turning point...where it kinda pauses for a bit of time.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=iBwPYIlwCdA

I see shooters of all levels (even my Master and GM buddies) get caught up on what they can "get in" between the activator and the mover. They get pulled into a speed focus (which is bad). What works for me is to turn up my vision. To hit solid.

In that video, it doesn't show very well, but I had a slight pause on my first shot. It wasn't on purpose. I was just off a bit on the draw stroke. I knew that I'd need to have solid hits all the way thru, starting with the first shot.

It might not look too fast, but I won that stage. And, I could probably repeat that same run over and over.

When I visualize what I need to do on a stage like that, the mover isn't my top priority. I visualize "center-punching" the other shots...foremost. (Center punching, to me, means finding the exact center of the steel or A-zone and shooting for that...aim small, hit small)

[kevin c]

<drift>

Flex, I remember Brian writing about how he shoots steel. Don't have Beyond Fundamentals in front of me, but I think he mentions accepting more or less visually depending on what he needed to do (in a man on man situation where the other competitor may be a schlub like me or somebody like TGO).

In a stage like the one in the video clip, when there isn't another competitor you're going up against right then and there, do you consider how much to accept visually, and perhaps get a faster run, or do you always "center punch" the steel?

<drift - and apologies for it>

[Flexmoney]

How 'bout this...

Shooting fails when the shooter doesn't see enough.

[Rob D]

Lots of helpful information here. Thanks guys. I think I'll throw a stopwatch in my range bag to see how much it helps.

Boz- right on about the forward falling poppers. A lot of the matches I shoot are at USSA Tulsa where I'm shooting the same poppers you guys shot at nationals. The first time I encountered these I shot them 2-3 times each thinking I had missed because they weren't falling. That was before I learned to call shots(still learning really).

Thanks again.