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Classifier question: When kneeling at barrel... does your gun have to be under the top of the barrel?

#1 User is offline   waktasz 

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:28 AM

The Classifier COF says shoot around either side, but a SO running me through the stage was saying that since it was low cover, that the gun had to be below the top of the barrel. I've never heard that before, does that sound right?

#2 User is offline   Jim Watson 

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:58 AM

The CoF says "around either side of 55 gallon barrel"

I figure the side is below the top, eh? Never seen it called any other way.


Next post - I stand corrected.
And amazed. I have never seen "around low cover" to NOT signify below the top of the barrel.

By the way, the Classifier CoF does not specify Tactical Priority "slicing the pie" for that stage. I guess I have been reading one thing into the description and RR another. Hmm.

This post has been edited by Jim Watson: 12 November 2008 - 08:03 AM

#3 User is offline   Gregg K 

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 07:58 AM

View Postwaktasz, on Nov 12 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

The Classifier COF says shoot around either side, but a SO running me through the stage was saying that since it was low cover, that the gun had to be below the top of the barrel. I've never heard that before, does that sound right?

It sounds right to me but Robert Ray from IDPA HQ has said that it is OK to have the gun higher than the top of the barrel so long as it is still around the side. The problem is that most people will end up putting their muzzle over the top edge of the barrel when they "pie" around the side. The muzzle ends up over the top edge on the last target. Shooting with the muzzle over the top of the barrel will earn a PE. Here is a link to the discussion and the quote from Robert Ray.

http://www.idpaforum...pic/4236?page=2

Quote from Robert
"Low Cover can be defined as "one knee on the ground." This can be stipulated for most any low opening or prop.

As for stage three, it is not an absolute that you shoot under the height of the barrel. You do have to shoot from around the side and "slice the pie" as such. Because it can be very difficult to see if a person is "slicing the pie" around the barrel, most MD's end up requiring people to stay under the height of the barrel otherwise people end up getting PE's for shooting across the top of the barrel.

I hope this helps answer your questions. Have a good week and a great shooting season.

Thank you,
Robert Ray
International Defensive Pistol Association"

#4 User is offline   Gregg K 

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:01 AM

View PostJim Watson, on Nov 12 2008, 08:58 AM, said:

The CoF says "around either side of 55 gallon barrel"

I figure the side is below the top, eh? Never seen it called any other way.

Yep, I figured that around the side meant side and not above the top edge but Robert has said otherwise.

#5 User is offline   RickB 

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:10 AM

How can you slice the pie, if your muzzle is above the top of the barrel? Once that vertical edge is gone, what are you slicing? It's not only hard for the SO to tell if you are doing it correctly, but as a shooter, how can you tell?

#6 User is offline   waktasz 

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:13 AM

I didn't mean to actually shoot from on top of the barrel, just that I don't see it anywhere in the rules that say your muzzle has to be below the level of the top of the barrel, when shooting from the side.

#7 User is offline   Bones 

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 11:34 AM

Tall barrel

#8 User is offline   RickB 

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 09:26 PM

View Postwaktasz, on Nov 13 2008, 08:13 AM, said:

I didn't mean to actually shoot from on top of the barrel, just that I don't see it anywhere in the rules that say your muzzle has to be below the level of the top of the barrel, when shooting from the side.


And I'm saying, how do you shoot "around" something that is below the level of the muzzle? You, as a shooter, have no reference for where the barrel is. The rule book does not say the muzzle must be below the top of the barrel, but I don't see how you can shoot around the barrel if it's not?

#9 User is offline   Duane Thomas 

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 10:20 PM

Yet another advantage for those of us who're 5'8" over those of us who're 6'5". Not shooting around the side of low cover isn't really a problem for those of us blessed with "closer to the ground to start with" capability. :)
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#10 User is offline   lugnut 

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 07:36 AM

"As for stage three, it is not an absolute that you shoot under the height of the barrel. You do have to shoot from around the side and "slice the pie" as such. Because it can be very difficult to see if a person is "slicing the pie" around the barrel, most MD's end up requiring people to stay under the height of the barrel otherwise people end up getting PE's for shooting across the top of the barrel. "

So...it's not "absolute"... but most MDs make you shoot under the height of the barrel. Clear as mud.
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