[Blaster]

Pg 80 of newest rule book says Safe area-no ammo handeling but I keep hearing no ammo in safe area, what might be real answer? Blaster

[lugnut]

Same thing. Both.

[Steve J]

The rule book actually says:

Safe Area: A designated area to handle UNLOADED guns. NO
AMMUNITION can be handled in a safe area.

And it means just that. It doesn't matter if you have ammunition and loaded magazines in your range bag or on your person like in your mag carriers, as long as you do not touch them in the safe area. In the safe area you may only touch your unloaded firearm.

[Duane Thomas]

Actually, at the local clubs I frequent, I've been told they don't even want loaded mags anywhere on your body if you're in the safe area. Extreme? Maybe. But then I didn't make the rule, and I'm sure they have their reasons.

[JThompson]

Steve J, on Nov 5 2008, 08:41 PM, said:

The rule book actually says:

Safe Area: A designated area to handle UNLOADED guns. NO
AMMUNITION can be handled in a safe area.

And it means just that. It doesn't matter if you have ammunition and loaded magazines in your range bag or on your person like in your mag carriers, as long as you do not touch them in the safe area. In the safe area you may only touch your unloaded firearm.

You can also handle empty mags, though some clubs prohibit it. Technically, you could practice reloads etc in the safe area. I would prefer that mags aren't handled in the safe area even if they are empty.

[Steve J]

Duane Thomas, on Nov 5 2008, 09:28 PM, said:

Actually, at the local clubs I frequent, I've been told they don't even want loaded mags anywhere on your body if you're in the safe area. Extreme? Maybe. But then I didn't make the rule, and I'm sure they have their reasons.

Granted. Local clubs and ranges can make the rules more stringent, but what the rule book alone calls for is clear.

[Steve J]

JThompson, on Nov 5 2008, 09:35 PM, said:

Steve J, on Nov 5 2008, 08:41 PM, said:

The rule book actually says:

Safe Area: A designated area to handle UNLOADED guns. NO
AMMUNITION can be handled in a safe area.

And it means just that. It doesn't matter if you have ammunition and loaded magazines in your range bag or on your person like in your mag carriers, as long as you do not touch them in the safe area. In the safe area you may only touch your unloaded firearm.

You can also handle empty mags, though some clubs prohibit it. Technically, you could practice reloads etc in the safe area. I would prefer that mags aren't handled in the safe area even if they are empty.

Those provisions are laid out clearly in the USPSA rules, unfortunately IDPA doesn't go into details much. Common sense though, if you're following the letter of the rules, says yes you're right. ETA: on both accounts.

This post has been edited by Steve J: 05 November 2008 - 08:39 PM

[RobMoore]

I have not found a club yet (in the whopping 2 years I've shot IDPA) that allowed ammunition anywhere near the safe area. Not on your person, not in a bag, nowhere. I agree with that policy. It meets and exceeds rulebook standards.

ETA: I'm not big on the idea of practicing reloads in the safe area. I think it has one purpose, to get your gun safely from your bag/box into your holster for the day. I would go one step further, to allow a few practice draws to ensure the holster is in the proper place, but thats about it. Practice should have already happened.

This post has been edited by RobMoore: 05 November 2008 - 08:40 PM

[Jim Norman]

Moved this over to a different thread, Fits better.

Jim

This post has been edited by Jim Norman: 06 November 2008 - 06:45 AM

[Charles Bond]

RobMoore, on Nov 5 2008, 10:38 PM, said:

I have not found a club yet (in the whopping 2 years I've shot IDPA) that allowed ammunition anywhere near the safe area. Not on your person, not in a bag, nowhere. I agree with that policy. It meets and exceeds rulebook standards.

ETA: I'm not big on the idea of practicing reloads in the safe area. I think it has one purpose, to get your gun safely from your bag/box into your holster for the day. I would go one step further, to allow a few practice draws to ensure the holster is in the proper place, but thats about it. Practice should have already happened.

Good point Rob. There is nothing more frustrating than to need to use the safe area to bag or unbag and have to wait on someone who thinks they need to practice their draw 50 times.

[Bones]

" I have not found a club yet (in the whopping 2 years I've shot IDPA) that allowed ammunition anywhere near the safe area. Not on your person, not in a bag, nowhere. I agree with that policy. It meets and exceeds rulebook standards."

I have Rob - lots of them. I travel to a lot of matches and have seen the enforcement of additional, unannounced and unclarified restrictions go poorly.

As has been stated and shown, the rule book is explicit. It clearly prohibits the handling, not possession, of ammunition, as well as devices and storage containers containing ammunition.

If your club has more stringent requirements, I strongly suggest those be covered as early as possible - in a registration document for instance. Usually the shooters meeting is too late, as most people have donned their gear by then.

If someone has traveled a long way to get to a match and expects the rulebook to be enforced as written, they need to know about a club's additional rules before they arrive.

Craig

[JThompson]

Our club prohibits the handling of mags, even if empty, in the safe area. There is a big honking sign right there... it's hard to miss, though some still need to be reminded.

This post has been edited by JThompson: 06 November 2008 - 08:17 AM

[hk_mtbr]

I don't really see the need to practice in the safe area. Like another poster said that should already be done.

If you want to check your weapon or make some emergency tweak fine. Or maybe take a draw or two to verify function but other than that - move on.

Something I've found in a couple of places is the use of spools as safe area tables. The problem is the is not enough room and no perfect 180 (except for the single point on the circle).

I don't see an issue with having mags on your belt so long as you don't touch them...loaded or unloaded.

Un-bag, check cycle, holster and move on...ymmv

[Jim Norman]

Is a Table actually required?

We often hear "Safe Table" but what is really needed is a "Safe Area"

Put a corral up, put a sign against the berm that says aim here.

Shooter enters the "Area", sets bag on ground, un-bags, holsters, does practice draw or tow, and leaves.

That said, a "Safe Table" is a nice thing to have so that the shooter that needs to work on his gun has a place to set things down. I know I for one will oil my gun at a safe table and also I have replaced broken parts as well as missing FO inserts. I highly recommend a table be provided, but it really isn't a 100% requirement. If space is limited, you could have one safe table centrally located and multiple 'Unbagging stations" set up around the range.

Jim

[JThompson]

Jim Norman, on Nov 6 2008, 10:07 AM, said:

Is a Table actually required?

We often hear "Safe Table" but what is really needed is a "Safe Area"

Put a corral up, put a sign against the berm that says aim here.

Shooter enters the "Area", sets bag on ground, un-bags, holsters, does practice draw or tow, and leaves.

That said, a "Safe Table" is a nice thing to have so that the shooter that needs to work on his gun has a place to set things down. I know I for one will oil my gun at a safe table and also I have replaced broken parts as well as missing FO inserts. I highly recommend a table be provided, but it really isn't a 100% requirement. If space is limited, you could have one safe table centrally located and multiple 'Unbagging stations" set up around the range.

Jim

table is a must imo

[Flexmoney]

What is a safe area for?

I can holster up on the line at the first stage at the make ready command.

At the end of the day, each squad can do a "group bag."


So, a safe area must be for fixing 1911's and Glocks that have been tinkered with.

[rledwards]

Flexmoney, on Nov 6 2008, 04:06 PM, said:

What is a safe area for?

I can holster up on the line at the first stage at the make ready command.

At the end of the day, each squad can do a "group bag."


So, a safe area must be for fixing 1911's and Glocks that have been tinkered with.

Absolutely!

[Jim Norman]

I have no disagreement.

Personally I think a table is a requirement.

I am just thinking back to the USPSA Nats in Barry; a barrel and a target that says aim here.

Jim

[freeidaho]

At our IDPA club, ammo is definitely allowed in the safe area. You can even test fire in our safe area if you want.

We run a hot range, except on sanctioned match days. Everyone everywhere is hot. No biggie.

kr
Life is a series of blind stages on a hot range.

[Jane]

Different ranges, different rules.

At SLOSA (central California), where we've held 3 IDPA state matches and this year the IRC and Golden Bullet matches, the safe tables have signs saying no HANDLING of mags, ammo, dummy rounds, etc.

At a Texas state match I shot a few years ago, the tables said "no ammo" period. I asked the MD during the shooters meeting whether that meant none on the belt or no handling, and he said "no handling".

When in doubt, ask.

[sslav]

During my RO class I was taught that "Handing" means having ammo in a condition where one action could result in a loaded firearm. So a mag on a belt is fine because it would require two operations to get to a loaded firearm: 1. Get it from the belt, 2. Insert into gun. It is also fine to have ammo in your range bag while the range bag is in the safe area - for the same reason.

[JKSNIPER]

I would think to avoid any problems the best way would be to leave any ammo just outside the designated safe area.
This way noone can say you "handled" it by picking up a bag with ammo in it.
Also the potential for an accident is lessened if theres NO ammo in the safe area.
JK

[Buzzdraw]

Bones, on Nov 6 2008, 09:00 AM, said:

. . .

If your club has more stringent requirements, I strongly suggest those be covered as early as possible - in a registration document for instance. Usually the shooters meeting is too late, as most people have donned their gear by then.

If someone has traveled a long way to get to a match and expects the rulebook to be enforced as written, they need to know about a club's additional rules before they arrive.

Craig

We run local matches and a major (Badlands Regional) under the IDPA Rulebook standard, all with no problems. Some of us like to practice draw, take sight pictures, do dry reloads (empty mags) before we start shooting for the day. Personally I prefer to use the vehicle as a place only to holster up, not for any of the aforementioned. If a ND occurs at a vehicle, people/property can get hurt. If a ND occurs in a proper Safe Area, neither is hazarded. That said, we've never (in 25+ years on the facility) had a ND in a Safe Area.

A table surface is a good idea, so that shooters who need to make gun adjustments have a place to work.

The Safe Area needs to be in a publicly visible area, thus individuals are unlikely to bend the rules of handling ammo, etc.

I've been on ranges where the competitor was not allowed to make adjustments to his own gun; didn't like that. I've also been on ranges where placing the gun in/out of holster had to be done in a Safe Area (or on the line); guess someone ND's in their park lot in the past. Local clubs can make their own rules, as necessary to their particular situation, but they must inform competitors of their rules (if different from the rulebook) before they enforce them.

[Mayonaise]

Most places I've shot had designated safe areas where any ammo in mags or not is prohibited. It's a good rule. Only one MD in my experience ever addressed shooters arriving and leaving the range carrying hot. Claude Werner made it part of his regular pre match safety briefing. First question was always "Does anyone here have a loaded weapon on them?"
You'd be surprised how many "new" and old shooters who might be hot by mistake. I was a sub MD one night and had a shooter who had shot before who chose to ignore "cold range" rules and come to the line with a loaded gun. One caught me by surprise once. Never happened again.

The other great thing Claude did was to provide a lock box at the port-a-john so shooters could lock their empty gun up while they used the facilities at his state matches. People laugh but I've heard of people who dropped guns inside of those things. I'm sure it was fun retrieving that blaster from the blue goo.

Food for thought for MD's out there.

This post has been edited by Mayonaise: 11 November 2008 - 03:54 PM

[ima45dv8]

Mayonaise, on Nov 11 2008, 05:52 PM, said:

Most places I've shot had designated safe areas where any ammo in mags or not is prohibited. It's a good rule. Only one MD in my experience ever addressed shooters arriving and leaving the range carrying hot. Claude Werner made it part of his regular pre match safety briefing. First question was always "Does anyone here have a loaded weapon on them?"
You'd be surprised how many "new" and old shooters who might be hot by mistake. I was a sub MD one night and had a shooter who had shot before who chose to ignore "cold range" rules and come to the line with a loaded gun. One caught me by surprise once. Never happened again.

The other great thing Claude did was to provide a lock box at the port-a-john so shooters could lock their empty gun up while they used the facilities at his state matches. People laugh but I've heard of people who dropped guns inside of those things. I'm sure it was fun retrieving that blaster from the blue goo.

Food for thought for MD's out there.

To continue a slight drift (with apologies), I thought Claude's idea of a hot zone was the smartest thing I had ever seen at a match. Instead of doing an UASC in your vehicle while entering the range, you could walk over to a well-marked assigned area, unload your pistol and get ready for the match (my carry gun was my match gun). At the conclusion of the match you could return there to get hot before leaving (as long as you IMMEDIATELY left the range after loading).