[dsb45acp]

Alright, I've got a question for any of you military, ex-military or M/GM shooter types. I've seen several posts on the board about how "such and such" shooter is the nicest, most laid bak guy until it's time to shoot. I talked with a friend of mine about it it and he said it sounded similar to learning how to "flip the switch" in the military. You'd be just laid back, hanging out with your buddies or family or whatever until it was time to go to work. Then suddenly you're the most focused, results oriented and motivated indiviual on the planet. When it's over, back to Mr. Nice Guy. How do you teach or train yourself to do that (short of enlisting because I'm just too old)? Any tips, suggestions or programs? This is a skill I'd really like to master for both my shooting and personal life so any input is appreciated.

[Jman]

Well. I'm a veteran and in my day (at least) we called it a killers instinct. Sorry, not very nice. Closest thing I can come up with. Another example is a successful boxer or fighter. They're good not because of anger, but the ability to deliver a devastating blow with anger when the opportunity arrives.

In the end...pretty sure it's something a few people have pre-wired. Training call help people with it use it effectively.


Jim

[Duane Thomas]

I wouldn't call it "focus". To me that seems a self-limiting term. It's more a matter of letting go, and allowing the subconscious mind to come to the fore and control the shooting. While waiting your turn to shoot the stage, program yourself how you're going to run it, visualize it in your mind, over and over again. Then, while doing LAMR and standing by for the beep, consciously clear your mind. There should, ideally, be no thought at all as you wait for the beep. Then, at the timer's signal, just run the program in your mind, and you'll find it unspools smoothly and gracefully.

It sounds paradoxical, but the harder you TRY to do this, the more elusive you'll find it. Because the essence of what you're doing is NOT trying. Trying is a conscious mind endeavor, and the moment you TRY, it pulls you out of the subconscious mind state that makes the shooting so easy. Just let it flow with no real effort, and you'll find yourself doing much better.

[Flexmoney]

Mindset.

I was watching the live feed from the US Nationals in Tulsa. Phil Strader's wife and child were in the area and on the video a bit. Phil was giving his little one some attention, then he needed to get back to the shooting. I smiled when Phil said, "Daddy has to go win the fight."

Mental vision. Clarity of purpose. Determination.

I think it is knowing what you have to do, and when you have to do it.

Switching it off...? Perhaps that comes from trust. You surely can't leave it on all the time and not expect mental stress, fatigue and burn out...IMO.

So, when to apply it?

After you shoot a stage, there is nothing you can do to change the shooting/performance. So, exhale and scream/cheer if you need to, then move on. Forget about history (emotionally). What's next?

Next stage. Get your plan down in the walk through. Visualize it. Basically at first, then dial it down in visualization with more and more detail (if you can get there). The better you know it, the better you can trust it. Don't harp on any one aspect too much. If you find yourself stuck on one aspect of your plan...pause and ask yourself why. Then deal with it. Chances are, it is just a distraction from the shooting. (If it is something else, note that for future practice...chance are you can't fix it now anyway...so focus on the fundamentals and what you do know.)

As I am waiting my turn, I usually like to get back into the mode as I am the in-the hole shooter. I can't get near the stage yet, because it belongs to the shooter, then the on-deck shooter. So, I might stand off...away from others and close my eye and turn off my electronic ears. Then, I will start visualizing my run. When I have it in my head...that is more trust, less tension. I might stretch a bit to get/keep loose.

As the on-deck shooter, I get my visualization down solid. I might do a ghost run in my head, playing off the beep of the shooter in front of me (eyes closed, ignoring the sound of his/her run). As the stage clears to reset, I'll get on it and get a feel. I'll likely run the stage as a dry-run a few times just to get the feel (the dry-run isn't as important to me as a clear visual plan in my mind though).

A bit more stretching might be in order or just shake out the arms and legs...maybe just as a reminder to stay loose. Make Ready. One more clear mental run, to know that I "own it"...trust. Then, I am ready to "just shoot".

After the stage, I need a bit of decompression time. I go to my range bag and ready my gear for the next stage. Loading mags...whatever. Then, after that is done and I've had a moment to reflect on the run, I will make whatever notes I think I might need on my score sheet...then I will tuck the score sheet away in the match booklet and be done with it.

What's next?

[Duane Thomas]

Excellent post. Thank you.

[dcarter]

That was a good question and a good answer Flex. One of my biggest problems is losing my plan somewhere in the middle of a stage. Maybe because something didn't go as I had envisioned it or I didn't plan well enough. Once that happens I need to find a way to quickly change or tweak my plan. I love shooting production but with 10 rounds you have to deal with a lot of reloads and those reloads are planned. I wish someone could give me an idea of how to keep this from happening to me. I feel like such an idiot everytime it happens.

[JThompson]

Flexmoney, on Oct 29 2008, 04:22 PM, said:

Mindset.

I was watching the live feed from the US Nationals in Tulsa. Phil Strader's wife and child were in the area and on the video a bit. Phil was giving his little one some attention, then he needed to get back to the shooting. I smiled when Phil said, "Daddy has to go win the fight."

Mental vision. Clarity of purpose. Determination.

I think it is knowing what you have to do, and when you have to do it.

Switching it off...? Perhaps that comes from trust. You surely can't leave it on all the time and not expect mental stress, fatigue and burn out...IMO.

So, when to apply it?

After you shoot a stage, there is nothing you can do to change the shooting/performance. So, exhale and scream/cheer if you need to, then move on. Forget about history (emotionally). What's next?

Next stage. Get your plan down in the walk through. Visualize it. Basically at first, then dial it down in visualization with more and more detail (if you can get there). The better you know it, the better you can trust it. Don't harp on any one aspect too much. If you find yourself stuck on one aspect of your plan...pause and ask yourself why. Then deal with it. Chances are, it is just a distraction from the shooting. (If it is something else, note that for future practice...chance are you can't fix it now anyway...so focus on the fundamentals and what you do know.)

As I am waiting my turn, I usually like to get back into the mode as I am the in-the hole shooter. I can't get near the stage yet, because it belongs to the shooter, then the on-deck shooter. So, I might stand off...away from others and close my eye and turn off my electronic ears. Then, I will start visualizing my run. When I have it in my head...that is more trust, less tension. I might stretch a bit to get/keep loose.

As the on-deck shooter, I get my visualization down solid. I might do a ghost run in my head, playing off the beep of the shooter in front of me (eyes closed, ignoring the sound of his/her run). As the stage clears to reset, I'll get on it and get a feel. I'll likely run the stage as a dry-run a few times just to get the feel (the dry-run isn't as important to me as a clear visual plan in my mind though).

A bit more stretching might be in order or just shake out the arms and legs...maybe just as a reminder to stay loose. Make Ready. One more clear mental run, to know that I "own it"...trust. Then, I am ready to "just shoot".

After the stage, I need a bit of decompression time. I go to my range bag and ready my gear for the next stage. Loading mags...whatever. Then, after that is done and I've had a moment to reflect on the run, I will make whatever notes I think I might need on my score sheet...then I will tuck the score sheet away in the match booklet and be done with it.

What's next?

Perhaps the most cogent words I've read from you K.

Nicely done....

I take a few moments after make ready, with my hand on the gun (holstered)... what goes through your head at that point if you do the same? I usually do another run through and then just relax and not think about anything... u?

This post has been edited by JThompson: 29 October 2008 - 06:58 PM

[Chris Keen]

Great response Kyle, but also from you Duane, you explained it well too.


Dan ... any shooters plan can change in mid-stream , you just need to learn to let go of the problem, and ask the question "What's next?" ............ faster

This post has been edited by CHRIS KEEN: 29 October 2008 - 07:18 PM

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

Great response Kyle, but also from you Duane, you explained it well too.

Thanks, Chris.

[XRe]

What Kyle wrote is pretty similar to what I do, so I won't bore you with those details. The real "how-to" in "switching it on" is a consistent routine to get you ready to shoot - and what works for you will be different than it is for everyone else. However, the best way to find out what that is would be to start with something and do it.

The one bit that Kyle left out (it may not be important in his routine) is the final prep bit before shooting. To use a golf analogy, for me, everything that Kyle mentioned is the stuff I'm doing as I approach my ball to hit a shot - I'm looking at the course, checking the yardage to my target, checking the wind, looking at my lie, selecting a club, planning the shot I want to make, etc. Then there's the pre-shot (or, pre-stage) routine. The purpose of the pre-stage routine is to give you a physical and mental key to switch gears. As you work one, it becomes a sort of security blanket - you'll find your mind calming, and everything preparing on its own to shoot the stage. You don't have to consciously "switch" mindsets - it will manifest through the process.

My pre-stage routine is the start of the stage for me. It starts when I return from my last dry-run through the stage to the start position. A pre-stage routine should be as short as it can be, and still prepare you to be ready to shoot. Watch video of pretty much any M/GM, and you'll see some form of pre-stage routine. The key is - you should come up with a routine that works for you, has no wasted steps, and is absolutely consistent from stage to stage. You should even use this routine in practice - especially when doing stage context work. I'll describe mine, and the reason for each step - its going to look lengthy, but once the steps are familiar, they become a smooth motion, and really only take a few seconds to execute. Here's what it looks like:

- return to start position, and remove ScopeCoat from C-More
- wait for "Make Ready"
- unlock holster, draw pistol, and set dot intensity
- check that pistol is clear, and put pistol in start position (in holster, on table, whatever)
- do two dry draws from start position (gain a feel for the opening movement of the stage, from the position you will execute it from)
- (assuming loaded start) insert Barney mag, rack slide, press check (insures a round made in the chamber)
- remove Barney mag, insert start mag, press check (forces slide over the top round of the mag, and "seats" everything in, and helps my OCD about there being a round in the chamber)
- safety on, pistol to start position
- up-tempo mental run through of stage, seeing each important element
- hands between dry grip on gun and start position 2-3 times, breath deep, slow, and completely (helps remember where the gun is in space, calms the nerves and gets some extra O2 onboard)
- hands to start position and nod
- stage has begun at this point, before RO says "Are you ready?"

Going through this process each time acts as a key to my subconscious to take programming, and control, and eases my conscious brain out of control. I've done it enough that my subconscious knows how to get through the routine on its own, and it acts as reassurance to the conscious mind that it can let go.

[Duane Thomas]

The pre-shot routine - which I also got from golf (or at least from reading a golf book ) - is immensely important.

[Adrian_Sorah]

Duane Thomas, on Oct 29 2008, 06:05 PM, said:

Just let it flow with no real effort, and you'll find yourself doing much better.

+1

Last sunday I shot a match and one of the stages I thought too much about it and fell into some barrels.
But my last stage I airgunned it a couple times, but when it was my time to shoot I just did it instead of over thinking it and shot it pretty well.

[Flexmoney]

dcarter, on Oct 29 2008, 09:18 PM, said:

That was a good question and a good answer Flex. One of my biggest problems is losing my plan somewhere in the middle of a stage. Maybe because something didn't go as I had envisioned it or I didn't plan well enough. Once that happens I need to find a way to quickly change or tweak my plan. I love shooting production but with 10 rounds you have to deal with a lot of reloads and those reloads are planned. I wish someone could give me an idea of how to keep this from happening to me. I feel like such an idiot everytime it happens.

Kinda answered your own question.


When I was trying to put all of this stage planning stuff together, I would come up with my most likely plan. Once I had that roughed out, I would then make myself come up with a few alternative plans...different ways to do it.

I would also look to see where the plan I was going to use would likely go wrong if it were to go wrong. I would then plan for the what-if's. (It's important not to let the what-if's take over, I guess.)

A tool to use for this is Steve Anderson's Stage Analysis and Ownership Plan. (which is see waaaay more people needing than are ever using)

[benos]

Quite a few years ago I happened to meet a general sports psychologist, who wanted to work with me with shooting. Pretty much always ready to experiment with anything - I said yes. But it didn't last very long. Right off the bat I realized that I wasn't interested in her method, which was specific mental imagery and visualization techniques designed solely to improve my shooting ability. I knew I didn't want to create a "shooter life" that would be separate from my daily life.

Long ago, I may have read this in The Book of Five Rings. Or wherever it was I knew as soon as I read it that it was the road I wanted to travel on. It was to the effect of - Learn to live your life, then just do everything naturally.

At all times, totally immerse yourself in whatever you are doing. Then you learn to do everything the same way - paying attention to whatever is most important at that moment. So whether you are washing the dishes or shooting a stage, although you are accomplishing different tasks, you are doing them the same way.

I know that's a personality thing, so it won't appeal to everyone. So if the above doesn't resonate with your personality type, when you are training or competing, for each act you do - draw, mag change, hit a 5 or 50 yard target - figure out what is the absolute most important thing to pay attention to to accomplish each task efficiently and consistently. Then train yourself to keep your attention smoothly moving along to wherever it needs to be, from moment to moment. Then unexpectedly, miracles begin happening.
be

[Duane Thomas]

What do you think of the idea that if you don't "pay attention" to anything, you just clear your mind and trust the subconscious, miracles begin to happen?

[AlamoShooter]

Duane Thomas, on Nov 3 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

What do you think of the idea that if you don't "pay attention" to anything, you just clear your mind and trust the subconscious, miracles begin to happen?

YOu can save your self by starting that on something simple. Like shaving ,& brushing your teeth.
Its a different way for many of us to think. Its as different as turning off your phone to have lunch with a friend.

Read Brian's post again. & read that book

[SA Friday]

Wow, lots of good stuff here. Almost all the answers are from the competition shooting arena. I'll throw my 2 cents in from the military perspective.

That switch is definately the same mindset that Flex spoke of, but I would like to expand on it from my experience. I see it more like self-motivated determination. The switch for me is the moment I know I have to begin a mission and there really is no room for other aspects of life to invade my mind, no day dreaming, no thinking about reports after the mission, just getting the mission done regardless of what changes during the mission. I'm not focusing on a systematic way to handle events. I am letting my training take over and dictate what I do. To use and Law Enforcement example, if the lead person during a low-threat entry draws their pistol everyone behind them does also. There isn't questioning of the lead to determine why, you just do it. The first time this happened with me, it was pure training that took over. You cannot afford to be thinking about what you are going to do when you get back home while running routes outside the wire. You miss something... For the most part, this switch becomes engrained in military personnel from lots of training and lots of peer pressure. Yes, peer pressure. Let me catch you on my security element day dreaming or sleeping while off base... We hit the wire and are back on friendly soil, turning it off is natural. There is a catch though, after time (and bad experiences) the off switch can get jammed. That's another issue.

I can see shooting and the military are very similar in a consept of flipping the switch, but the stakes are much higher in the military so the intensity is just that much more elevated. It's mentally exhausting at times.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

& read that book

Again? That'll make, what, five times now?

[HSMITH]

For me it has always been accepting the outcome before you begin, whatever that outcome might be. I was part of some pretty dangerous things in the military and it was as simple as realizing that if today was the day bad things happened that was the way it was going to be. Accept that today could be that day before you head out and as long as I did my job to the best of my ability that was all I could do. Quiet minds are able to focus on the task at hand without blinders, training takes care of unexpected things and if it doesn't, oh well. The 'oh well' part was important to me, it allowed me to do my best in situations I was prepared for and more importantly in situations I was not necessarily prepared for. I became MUCH more valuable to the people that were relying on me. That was the 'switch' for me.

I started this game quite a few years after I left the military, and it took me a couple years shooting 2 or 3 matches a month to just RELAX and do what I could without expectations going in. I made a lot of headway in this regard over the last couple months. Stepping to the line without expectations is a key for me, just go do what I can do right here right now. Not what I did last time, or next time, just what I have right here right now. Accepting a bad run is still hard, but it flows off me a LOT better than it used to. I am shooting better than I ever have and having more fun than I was when I was trying really hard. The 'bad' thing is I don't get ramped up like I used to, I don't get the adrenaline charge much anymore, no butterflies, etc. I used to get wicked adrenaline rushes, by the 3rd or 4th string of a steel stage I was just vibrating wound up LOL. The adrenaline and butterflies were what hooked me on this in the beginning, and I miss that aspect, but to get better I have to move forward.

[benos]

HSMITH, on Nov 4 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

For me it has always been accepting the outcome before you begin, whatever that outcome might be. I was part of some pretty dangerous things in the military and it was as simple as realizing that if today was the day bad things happened that was the way it was going to be. Accept that today could be that day before you head out and as long as I did my job to the best of my ability that was all I could do. Quiet minds are able to focus on the task at hand without blinders, training takes care of unexpected things and if it doesn't, oh well. The 'oh well' part was important to me, it allowed me to do my best in situations I was prepared for and more importantly in situations I was not necessarily prepared for. I became MUCH more valuable to the people that were relying on me. That was the 'switch' for me.

I started this game quite a few years after I left the military, and it took me a couple years shooting 2 or 3 matches a month to just RELAX and do what I could without expectations going in. I made a lot of headway in this regard over the last couple months. Stepping to the line without expectations is a key for me, just go do what I can do right here right now. Not what I did last time, or next time, just what I have right here right now. Accepting a bad run is still hard, but it flows off me a LOT better than it used to. I am shooting better than I ever have and having more fun than I was when I was trying really hard. The 'bad' thing is I don't get ramped up like I used to, I don't get the adrenaline charge much anymore, no butterflies, etc. I used to get wicked adrenaline rushes, by the 3rd or 4th string of a steel stage I was just vibrating wound up LOL. The adrenaline and butterflies were what hooked me on this in the beginning, and I miss that aspect, but to get better I have to move forward.

Great post Howard.
be

[benos]

Duane Thomas, on Nov 3 2008, 09:13 PM, said:

What do you think of the idea that if you don't "pay attention" to anything, you just clear your mind and trust the subconscious, miracles begin to happen?

Are you talking about not paying attention to anything, for shooting?

If so, what comes to mind that was a great training tool for me - is to shoot a string without directing my attention to any particular place, and then just notice what I became aware of.
be

[Duane Thomas]

Wow. It's posts like that that make this all worthwhile. I'll try that on the next trip to the range.

[Boats]

Watch Tiger Woods on TV. He looks at the ball, blinks his eyes a couple of times, and tunes most everything else out. I do see him allowing some outside input, noise ,disturbance or something changes and he will stop and go through his pre swing routine again. Always comes back to the eye blink though.

I think the eye blink is his trigger. Worked it into my shooting routines and gives me a clean break between mechanical items and physical thoughts. Lets me get into the metal side of breaking a shot.

Boats

[45Fundi]

Great thread

I'm not the Uber IPSC guy yet, but have had to "Switch It On" for a living and in sports and for me what usually gave me the ability to... BE.... "switched on" was confidence and maybe even a sort of arrogant pride in that "I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS AND I KNOW HOW TO DO IT WELL!" This sort of attitude doesn't allow any doubts, fears, questions or spontaneous mental conundrums to pop into one's head or peck at the back of your mind. If you "believe" you are prepared, trained well and trained hard, and going to do well then you can relax what needs to be relaxed and switch on ONLY what needs to be switched on.

I've always wanted to discuss THE FIVE RINGS with BENOS. I need to read it again first as its been many years.

If you want to learn to "tune out" and "switch on" start rock or ice climbing. You can not think about anything else in the world except what you're doing that second!

[dsb45acp]

Thanks for all the great replies everybody. After reading, I think I've come to a few conclusions about my mental game or lack thereof
- I'm limiting myself because I want to win; I need to put that thought out of my head and just shoot to the best of my ability.
-I really don't have very much confidence in myself. I tend to be hypercritical of myself after a stage and actually be angry or disappointed with myself because I didn't shoot well enough to beat TGO or some other silly azz expectation like that.
-Although I'm a "B" class shooter which (according to some other posts on the forum) is better then the average guy/gal or even LEO, I still don't see myself as very skilled and the idea of eventually reaching M/GM or placing well at a major match just seems like a pipe dream.
-I have trouble planning out my stages, though this does seem to be getting better ove the last couple of matches.
-I need to concentrate more on the positives I've seen in the last couple of matches (shot 2 clean matches and actually won a classifier stage).
-I need to seek more support from my family and not try to do this all by myself.
This thread has given me some great food for thought and I appreciate everyones input, keep it up guys!