[kimberacp]

I shot a Man vs Man event yesterday on a falling plate rack. I didnt get drop out until my third time up. But I KNEW, I was just watching the plates and not the front sight! I knew it and I even told myself as I was waiting for my next turn up and told a friend of mine too.
Sure enough when my turn came up and started to shoot, I caught myself staring at the bullets hits on the plate.
I deserved to get beat!
As I drove home I couldn't help but wonder as to why...why is it so diffucult to bring your focus every time back to the front sight when shooting the shot?
We get lazy and stare downrange.
Seems like a curse for me, not overcoming but trusting yourself to just look at the front sight.
thanks

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've missed an entire full-sized popper
at 10 - 12 yards using the same technique =
But, imagine if that "man on man" was
shooting back at You, rather that at another
plate:((( Betcha it would be Real Easy to
miss an entire person at 7 yards if he was
shooting at you.

Somebody (Clint Smith?) said that if you're
real close, don't think that you can't miss,
but think that you Better Not miss.

[Duane Thomas]

I think it's because the shooter hasn't yet figured out exactly what is important. I've had enough experiences where I didn't watch the front sight and shot poorly, then switched to watching the front sight on the very next stage and burned it down, that eventually the ol' 40-watter popped even for me. Actually, things go SO much better when I watch the front sight, I've come to view watching the front sight as almost like this way of cheating and making my shooting ever-so-much easier. Hey, I'll take it.

[shred]

Plates are especially bad. Shoot a few in a row and your attention can quickly wander away from what's important.

[Al Capizzo]

At the one and only local pin match I shot, I got to the final one on one shoot off and found myself watching the OTHER guy's pins to see how he was doing. Needless to say, he was doing better than me!

[Toolguy]

The movement of reactive targets draws your eyes to it. It's a survival or hunting instinct to look at anything that moves.
It takes a lot of concentration to go against your instincts.

[ChrisStock]

shred, on Oct 7 2008, 12:13 AM, said:

Plates are especially bad. Shoot a few in a row and your attention can quickly wander away from what's important.

Yes.... this happened to me the last day I was in class with DirtyPool40... man vs. man on plate racks. I KNOW I was better than my competition and torqued out in the 2nd round after a win in the first go round. It didn't help that my pistol was crapping out forcing a reload after the 4th plate

[benos]

kimberacp, on Oct 6 2008, 08:49 AM, said:

I shot a Man vs Man event yesterday on a falling plate rack. I didnt get drop out until my third time up. But I KNEW, I was just watching the plates and not the front sight! I knew it and I even told myself as I was waiting for my next turn up and told a friend of mine too.
Sure enough when my turn came up and started to shoot, I caught myself staring at the bullets hits on the plate.
I deserved to get beat!
As I drove home I couldn't help but wonder as to why...why is it so diffucult to bring your focus every time back to the front sight when shooting the shot?
We get lazy and stare downrange.
Seems like a curse for me, not overcoming but trusting yourself to just look at the front sight.
thanks

I can really relate to that. For all the years I shot iron sights, the one thing I always had to do for every string of fire was to tell myself to look right at the front sight for every shot, if I wanted to consistently shoot to my potential.

I wonder if it's one of those things that fits into my "when is it best (to do what comes natural) and when is it not" category. When faced with a challenge, many of our natural responses are not the responses that do the job the best.
be

[bkeeler]

shred, on Oct 6 2008, 09:13 PM, said:

Plates are especially bad. Shoot a few in a row and your attention can quickly wander away from what's important.

I heard that!

Had this very problem this weekend. When your mind starts to wander it is hard to get it back.

BK

This post has been edited by bkeeler: 23 February 2009 - 08:34 PM

[Fergus]

Last year I was shooting a stage at provincials where there were two strings of plates which a person had to shoot with a paper target on each side to make it 10 & 10. For once I remembered to watch the front sight and just kept putting it the next plate. It was amazing they all fell and I thought I was going really slow. It ends up I was shooting really quite fast and very very smooth. When I was done everyone in the squad clapped and cheered - it was kind of embarrassing but a real good memory.

Nice to think about the real good stages once in awhile; goodness knows we beat ourselves up enough about the bad ones. [Now If I could Just Do That Consistently].

This post has been edited by Fergus: 23 February 2009 - 09:13 PM

[ahtsay]

I used to look for 2 bullet holes on static targets instead of looking at the front sight It took awhile for me to start paying attention to my front sight. However, sometimes I still drift from front sight focus to target focus. How do we train our brain to be exclusively front sight focused? Any advice?

[Flexmoney]

Realization.

Decide.

Trust.

[benos]

ahtsay, on 26 January 2010 - 02:22 AM, said:

I used to look for 2 bullet holes on static targets instead of looking at the front sight It took awhile for me to start paying attention to my front sight. However, sometimes I still drift from front sight focus to target focus. How do we train our brain to be exclusively front sight focused? Any advice?

Check my post above... in 20 years of competitive shootiing, I always had to fight the natural tendency to look at the targets. So it may be on of those things you always have to do.
be

[lugnut]

benos, on 26 January 2010 - 04:09 PM, said:

ahtsay, on 26 January 2010 - 02:22 AM, said:

I used to look for 2 bullet holes on static targets instead of looking at the front sight It took awhile for me to start paying attention to my front sight. However, sometimes I still drift from front sight focus to target focus. How do we train our brain to be exclusively front sight focused? Any advice?

Check my post above... in 20 years of competitive shootiing, I always had to fight the natural tendency to look at the targets. So it may be on of those things you always have to do.
be

I'm in the same boat- a simple concept that a 5 year old can understand- yet it's so hard to make sure I do this well enough to call a good shot. Why oh why!!!!!!

[Graham Smith]

I used to shoot archery at a place with indoor lanes. One of the things I had to constantly fight to maintain was follow through. There is a tendency to move your bow arm down and to the left to get it out of the way so you can see where the arrow hit. Problem is, that movement is often telegraphed enough that it starts to happen before the arrow has cleared the bow.

The same thing happens to me shooting steel. Rather than focusing on shooting, I waste time looking to see if the plate (popper) has fallen. I know what I should do - assume the hit and move the gun onto the next target. Then go back and pickup any missed targets. I know that when I do that, I shoot better. I know it all but I still find myself looking. <sigh>

[Dwight Stearns]

To be really good at plate racks a shooter has to learn and use the concept of "fire and forget". As soon as the shot breaks on one plate and the sights lift, that plate has to be forgotten momentarily. All mental focus must shift to the next plate in the rack. I teach new shooters to fire one shot at each plate and then come back for any missed plates. As the shooters get better they can start the trick of returning to a missed plate after their next following shot and then continue with the rest of the rack. I practice fire and forget by locking the plates in the up position and just shooting 6 for 6 on non-falling plates.
This concept of fire and forget works with target focus as well as front sight focus.
I have found that in shooting plate racks, a slow falling plate due to and edge hit is worse that a clean miss. On the slow faller the mind recognises what it believes to be a miss and has formulated a plan to return to that plate. Once that plan is formulated and then the plate falls the mind cannot quickly change gears back to the original plan. You find yourself in no man's land.

Dwight

[SN13]

Sorry for the silly question, but what is Man vs. Man? Kind of a double-elimination non-timed, more who wins the race thing?

Heads up one on one. First one to knock them all down wins type thing?

Sorry, I've never done or seen this so I'm curious.

[Flexmoney]

Often it will be two shooters on the line, each facing down range with their own set of targets (similar/identical for each shooter).

Each shooter might have to shoot down a rack of steel plates or poppers, and then engage and knock down their stop plate before their opponent.
The stop plates are often poppers set next to each other...such that, when they fall, they overlap. The one on the bottom being the winner.

He is one version (with more than two shooters) http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nr-GfOWGw28

[SN13]

Thanks for the info and vid!

[CocoBolo]

I just shot Man-on-Man Saturday and made it to the Semi Finals. As noted above shooting the plate rack requires that you call your shot as you move down the rack not waiting to hear or see the hit then a quick glance to the rack as you transition to the stop popper to check for any standing plates. The Man-on-Man part for me is to block it all out of the mind, it is you the gun the plates and that is your world. Focus has to be on hits, in my case the Dot and not the front sight. Any concious thought about your opponent or how he/she is doing will certainly result in lost time, just shoot your plates and stopper.

[Sam]

Quote

When your mind starts to wander it is hard to get it back.

-bkeeler

Great line!

[disjointed]

I have the problem of trying to keep it all together in my head of shoot target x, y, z, and reload now that I find myself wanting to be sure that I hit the target. It can be hard to shoot and move on sometimes.

Good tips in this thread. Thanks.