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Moon Clips VS Speed Loader


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#1 ede

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 04:35 PM

anyone have some words of wisdom on which would be the better way to go? FYI it's a S&W K frame in .38/357. overall cost would be less for speed loaders than the moon clips and machine work. i'm not much of a revolver shooter (or anything else) but i have fun so a tenth of a second or whatever on a reload isn't going to be a big deal to me. thanks in advance for any help

#2 TonyT

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 04:46 PM

anyone have some words of wisdom on which would be the better way to go? FYI it's a S&W K frame in .38/357. overall cost would be less for speed loaders than the moon clips and machine work. i'm not much of a revolver shooter (or anything else) but i have fun so a tenth of a second or whatever on a reload isn't going to be a big deal to me. thanks in advance for any help

i would hate to see a nice K-frame adapted for moonclips. There are many more 686's around that can be moonclipped.

#3 vrmn1

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:06 PM

I have moonclipped a couple of k frames.
And I do find the to be a tenth or two faster IF you can reload with a comp III speed loader well.
MAYBE???????????????
My 19-4 pinned and recessed gun can be loaded pretty fast with moon clips and short colt case.
With 38 special cases the difference is not so great.
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#4 Bubber

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:51 PM

ede, One can be quite competitive with the Comp III's or Jet Loaders in the L or K frame. The drawback is the learning curve. I have just recently switched to the moonclipped L frame for the 38 super. I just like getting my brass back, but not because I'm a cheap B@$$*%$. Well Ok it is becaused I'm a cheap B@$$*%$. It will take a little time to get proficient with the speedloaders but it is worth it because the 38 special cases are longer and not as easy to reload moonclipped than by a speedloader, at least for me. :angry2: Let me know if I can be of any help. Later rdd
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#5 mwx40x40

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:57 PM

ede, One can be quite competitive with the Comp III's or Jet Loaders in the L or K frame. The drawback is the learning curve. I have just recently switched to the moonclipped L frame for the 38 super. I just like getting my brass back, but not because I'm a cheap B@$$*%$. Well Ok it is becaused I'm a cheap B@$$*%$. It will take a little time to get proficient with the speedloaders but it is worth it because the 38 special cases are longer and not as easy to reload moonclipped than by a speedloader, at least for me. :angry2: Let me know if I can be of any help. Later rdd


Bubber, are the clips for the 38Super thicker than the ones used for 38spl/38sc? I know you are quite proficient with the Comp III , are you moonclipped loads as quick?

#6 Bubber

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:05 PM

mwx40x40, The Moonclips I have for my 38 super measures 0.040 inches, from what I can see. The moonclips that I have seen for the L frames is 0.022 inches. I have yet to be consistant with my reloads with the moonclips except for my eight shot. I can do well with them. Another kid on the block doing well with his reloading is C. Gober. If he could count to six he would have beaten me today. As it was he was top Unclassified in open. I will take a win anyway I can anymore. :cheers: My problem lies in the rounds being loose in the moonclips and I have not perfected the making of the speedstik as Phil had done so I get a hit or miss on my trials. I should just pony up and get the moonclips from Hearthco but I am just stubborn and want to try different things and come up with new ways of making things work. Or at lest copy the stuff my friends had started. Plagerism is the sincerest from of flattery. later rdd
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#7 nashvillebill

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:29 PM

There are some great posts on this forum that tell how to trim Comp III and Jet loaders which make them almost as fast as moons. People tell me my reloads look as fast with my Jets and my S&W 66 as with my 625. As has been said many times "search is your friend", it has provided most of my education.
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#8 Tom E

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 09:14 PM

I have not perfected the making of the speedstik as Phil had done


speedstick?????

#9 jhgtyre

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 10:01 PM

I have not perfected the making of the speedstik as Phil had done


speedstick?????


Phil Rosato, if I am not mistaken, made a holder/handle/stiffener for full moon clips called the "Speed Stick." Basically you got all the advantages of the full moon clip and the speedloader in one package. I still see a shooter or two at Rio who have them but the "Speed Stick" sighting is rare.

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#10 Tom E

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 10:59 PM

I have not perfected the making of the speedstik as Phil had done


speedstick?????


Phil Rosato, if I am not mistaken, made a holder/handle/stiffener for full moon clips called the "Speed Stick." Basically you got all the advantages of the full moon clip and the speedloader in one package. I still see a shooter or two at Rio who have them but the "Speed Stick" sighting is rare.

-ld


Thx.

#11 Viggen

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 11:09 PM

I have not perfected the making of the speedstik as Phil had done


speedstick?????


Phil Rosato, if I am not mistaken, made a holder/handle/stiffener for full moon clips called the "Speed Stick." Basically you got all the advantages of the full moon clip and the speedloader in one package. I still see a shooter or two at Rio who have them but the "Speed Stick" sighting is rare.

-ld


Thx.


Plans and diagrams for Speed Sticks are openly available, although Phil is no longer producing them.
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#12 snertley

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 11:56 PM

I did see Bubber with some of his thingamajigs or whatchamacallits in Tulsa, heck one ended up in my shooting bag. He called them speed stick or some crazy thing. :unsure:
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#13 Bubber

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:35 AM

I did see Bubber with some of his thingamajigs or whatchamacallits in Tulsa, heck one ended up in my shooting bag. He called them speed stick or some crazy thing. :unsure:


The technical terminology is "MY Little Red Dohickies"
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#14 snertley

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 09:04 AM

I did see Bubber with some of his thingamajigs or whatchamacallits in Tulsa, heck one ended up in my shooting bag. He called them speed stick or some crazy thing. :unsure:


The technical terminology is "MY Little Red Dohickies"



Yea, thats it! :rolleyes:
"Changing over to shooting revolver is the natural evolution of things, like learning to walking upright."
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#15 Bill Nesbitt

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 12:41 PM

ede, what sport do you want to shoot in? If you shoot IDPA you will probably want to use speedloaders and shoot in SSR. If you use moon clips you will have to load major and shoot in ESR.
When all else fails...execute the fundamentals. ---- Flex.

#16 Carmoney

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 03:16 PM

Basically you got all the advantages of the full moon clip and the speedloader in one package.


OK......what possible advantage could a speedloader possibly have over moonclips??
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#17 ede

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 03:44 PM

USPSA, not shooting IDPA. talked to a couple of guys today at a match and they pointed out a few things i didn't know, not it seems like a no brainer to me to go with speed loaders. plus if i ever did want to go IDPA and be set up for it.

#18 Bubber

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 03:59 PM

Basically you got all the advantages of the full moon clip and the speedloader in one package.


OK......what possible advantage could a speedloader possibly have over moonclips??


When reloading the revo does not have to be pointed down as much and movement from reload to point is less, the bullets and brass stay rigid until loaded so you should never have to wiggle the rounds to get them to load.... I know that it is extremely easy to reload a 625 \25 very consistantly but the 38 specials and such take a little more at times. The trade off is a flater trajectory out beyond the 40 yard mark. Yea I know we don't shoot much at 40 and plus.
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#19 Bones

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:43 PM

I'm staying out of this one with this caveat:

ede, if you are intent on shooting a K-frame, go to IDPA matches and you will find more competition in SSR with speedloaders. If you use moonclips in IDPA you must shoot ESR - and 165000PF ammunition. A steady diet of 165PF ammo will not do you or your K-frame good. If you shoot ICORE or USPSA, you will find most competitors shooting softer recoiling ammunition with moonclips, but very few using a K frame. Try them all - they are all lots of fun.

With that, Bill Nesbitt, they're all yours.

I'm sorry I missed seeing you this weekend Bill - but the alien that invaded my body said it was happy to see you. I will be happy to see him leave.

Craig

Edited by Bones, 05 October 2008 - 04:43 PM.


#20 Carmoney

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:13 PM

If you shoot ICORE or USPSA, you will find most competitors shooting softer recoiling ammunition with moonclips....


ICORE, yes, most competitors will be shooting minor loads.

USPSA, virtually everybody in revolver division is shooting major (165K+) power factor ammo.
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#21 Bill Nesbitt

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:16 PM

I don't have a 38 special moon clip gun. I do have 45 ACP and a 38 super moon clip revolvers.

I find that with moon clips I have to let gravity pull the rounds into the chambers. I can't force them. If I try to force them they will hold up.

With a Safariland Comp lll speedloader in 38 special I can force the rounds against the cylinder and they will go in better. Not necessarily better than moon clips. Just different.

I have heard that 38 special moon clips are floppy and harder to load.

Craig, your alien seemed to shoot OK on most of the stages. ;)

Edited by Bill Nesbitt, 05 October 2008 - 06:18 PM.

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#22 Carmoney

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 06:17 PM

Basically you got all the advantages of the full moon clip and the speedloader in one package.


OK......what possible advantage could a speedloader possibly have over moonclips??


When reloading the revo does not have to be pointed down as much and movement from reload to point is less, the bullets and brass stay rigid until loaded so you should never have to wiggle the rounds to get them to load.... I know that it is extremely easy to reload a 625 \25 very consistantly but the 38 specials and such take a little more at times. The trade off is a flater trajectory out beyond the 40 yard mark. Yea I know we don't shoot much at 40 and plus.


Next, Bubber will explain the advantages of having a giant goiter. ;)
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#23 Bubber

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 07:22 PM

Basically you got all the advantages of the full moon clip and the speedloader in one package.


OK......what possible advantage could a speedloader possibly have over moonclips??


When reloading the revo does not have to be pointed down as much and movement from reload to point is less, the bullets and brass stay rigid until loaded so you should never have to wiggle the rounds to get them to load.... I know that it is extremely easy to reload a 625 \25 very consistantly but the 38 specials and such take a little more at times. The trade off is a flater trajectory out beyond the 40 yard mark. Yea I know we don't shoot much at 40 and plus.


Next, Bubber will explain the advantages of having a giant goiter. ;)


My loaded round don't pop out of my holders... At least not in the front. You were talking about the German Goiter right?
Bubber
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#24 ede

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 01:36 AM

i'll shoot 7 matches a year with the revolver and will go back and forth between the .38 and a .40. there might be a chance i'd shoot the revolver in L10 or limited just to get more trigger time but all in all it won't get used much, not like what a real revolver shooter would.

#25 jmax

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 07:53 PM

These are interesting threads but Carmony stated it best with his comments on speed loaders not being nearly as fast of moon clipped revolvers. We had our annual revolver match that I run at my local ICORE club where speed loaders and iron sights are in the spirit of the match. We averaged about 30 rounds per stage including a modified F&N where more time was allowed for the reload stages (Mein Gott Carmony will surely chime in on this one as he so loves F&N). We were all pressed for time, times were slower because of Comp III loaders, everyone thinks of me as a horses patoot at the end of the match but they do return each year. Two good limited class A shooters practiced a great deal with their Comp III and neither will go back to them except for this match. At the end we have a man on man against my Action target dueling tree. One of the new open class shooters strayed and hosed all before him. We even had the two LA shooters take him on together but they went down in flames.

Bottom line, get the bloody thing moon clipped that way you have all options open.

As a side note I shot my 21-4 in 44 special and got all hits on F&N w/no OT's. I designed the match and then torture myself with F&N. Fixed sights and a rounded polished frame above the recoil shield results in a very bright shinny rear sight blurr. We all had fun and will do it again next year where all will again think ill of me ;)




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