[coframer]

I shot my first IDPA match in Idaho on 9/20/08 there state match. For my first time I thought it was a great set up. The group of guys that I shot with made me comfortable to shot around plus I was with my father G-Man who shots these matches quite often. I thought I did pretty good. The one thing that cost me alot of time were Cover Procedurals. Big time errors. 3 seconds added to your time for each one. I ended up having 18 seconds added to my time for this. This is a mental mistake on my part. Is there something I should practice to correct this erra so I won't have so many next time?

[Merlin Orr]

Welcome to the Forums!


Run your mental program before each stage with a clear thought as to where you feet must be to ensure you stay within the accepted area that will keep your body behind cover. It's mostly about the position of the feet that will keep you from getting dinged. Watch other shooters and see how they approach and use the cover provided. It gets easier as you get experience.

Glad you enjoyed the match!

This post has been edited by Merlin Orr: 03 October 2008 - 05:45 PM

[dcbfluff]

Like Merlin says: it's about where you plant your feet. Although with IDPA you can't rehearse the stage, the advice I got as a new shooter was to be looking/planning where you plan to plant your outside foot to ensure that 100% of your lower body is behind cover but you still have room to lean your upper body outside of the cover to engage the targets (as they become visible).
This is a great forum, and IDPA is a great sport-
Welcome
Dan

[lugnut]

Procedurals are the first things that kill new shooters... it will come with experience.

This post has been edited by lugnut: 03 October 2008 - 06:04 PM

[lugnut]

dcbfluff, on Oct 3 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

Although with IDPA you can't rehearse the stage, the advice I got as a new shooter was to be looking/planning where you plan to plant your outside foot to ensure that 100% of your lower body is behind cover but you still have room to lean your upper body outside of the cover to engage the targets (as they become visible).

Actually you can to some extent... just no airgunning. You can go up to cover and check your footing/cover... just don't point your fingers towards the targets.

[Greg Bell]

lugnut, on Oct 3 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

dcbfluff, on Oct 3 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

Although with IDPA you can't rehearse the stage, the advice I got as a new shooter was to be looking/planning where you plan to plant your outside foot to ensure that 100% of your lower body is behind cover but you still have room to lean your upper body outside of the cover to engage the targets (as they become visible).

Actually you can to some extent... just no airgunning. You can go up to cover and check your footing/cover... just don't point your fingers towards the targets.

Page 9
C 4. Individual rehearsals of a CoF are not permitted.

Get it done during the official squad walk through

[Loves2Shoot]

As stated above, in IDPA you footwork is absolutely essential. If you don't know all the spots you need to hit before you start the stage you will be slow. When in doubt, ask the SO if your spots are under cover.

[HoMiE]

Greg Bell, on Oct 3 2008, 06:54 PM, said:

lugnut, on Oct 3 2008, 08:06 PM, said:

dcbfluff, on Oct 3 2008, 08:58 PM, said:

Although with IDPA you can't rehearse the stage, the advice I got as a new shooter was to be looking/planning where you plan to plant your outside foot to ensure that 100% of your lower body is behind cover but you still have room to lean your upper body outside of the cover to engage the targets (as they become visible).

Actually you can to some extent... just no airgunning. You can go up to cover and check your footing/cover... just don't point your fingers towards the targets.

Page 9
C 4. Individual rehearsals of a CoF are not permitted.

Get it done during the official squad walk through

If you have to go downrange to tape targets, you can also pay attention to where you need to be to not get dinged for cover procedurals or for rehersing.

[ben b.]

I sometimes ask to check target location prior to running it, if I'm up first. But I usually just tape a lot or maybe hold the clipboard...

[Greg Bell]

I always have a box of pasters in hand, or shagging brass. This will give me all the extra looks I need

[lugnut]

HoMiE, on Oct 4 2008, 01:31 AM, said:

If you have to go downrange to tape targets, you can also pay attention to where you need to be to not get dinged for cover procedurals or for rehersing.

Yep- that's why it's best not to go first all the time!

[Boats]

Some might call it Gaming but, Our club always needs help setting up. Roll out the barrels set up targets and lay out the stage you are not very likely to make a mistake while shooing. Being new to the game I find it real usefull.

Boats

[Bill Nesbitt]

A tip to help with using good cover. If you're not leaning when you shoot, you're probably not using good cover.

[Duane Thomas]

Two things:

(1) As you examine the stage, look at the cover and the first target you'll be engaging from that cover, draw a mental line from the outside corner of the first target (outermost, IOW) to be engaged to the outside corner of the cover. Imagine that line is a glass wall beyond which you absolutely will not allow your lead foot to go. Look at the ground, pick out a point that is very close to that line but not beyond it, a rock on the ground, whatever, and memorize that. As you're moving toward the cover, LOOK at that point on the ground. As you move into position, put your foot right on that point. You will automatically be in position to shoot without putting any portion of your lower body beyond cover.

(2) If, despite this, you get a cover call, almost invariably it will be the lead foot/leg that's sticking out beyond cover. If kneeling it's be the lead knee. Where new shooters lose immense time is that, when they get the cover call, they pull their entire body back behind cover, then slowly and careful lean out again. You don't have to do that. JUST MOVE THE LEAD FOOT BACK A FEW INCHES WHILE YOU CONTINUE SHOOTING. (If kneeling, move the knee inward.) You've just complied with the cover call by moving the portion of your body that was protruding past cover back behind cover, without adding any time to the stage.

[Duane Thomas]

By the way, I'm using my Godlike Moderator Powers™ to move this to the IDPA forum where it really belongs.

[GmanCdp]

distraction

• noun 1 a thing that diverts attention. 2 a thing offering entertainment. 3 mental agitation.

some distractions can make you mess up at a match..........
actually,i'm quite proud of coframer..he [and my grandaughter]met me at the Tulsa State match in June and watched me shoot for 2 days,then calls up in Aug and says he was thinking about how much fun he had at that match and had took the plung and bought a Glock...then when i told him i was shooting the Idaho state match in Sept..he said i'm goin to!!! So he joined IDPA,shot his classifier the first of Sept,and classified as a SSP MM..then he spent the next few weeks,DRY FIRING most EVERY day,practicing his draws and reloads,and plus i sent him the Burkett dvd's,and a bunch of other learning material from right here,and 16 hrs on the phone...kinda hard to teach someone 1200 miles away ..no local matches,just show up and shoot a state match...now thats a learning experience...
...7th out of 17 shooters is pretty darn good...good luck son on your quest..and i'll see you next year..G' [dad]

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This post has been edited by GmanCdp: 06 October 2008 - 10:47 AM

[spd522]

Cover procedurals should only come after a first call for cover goes un-corrected. Unless something has changed since I shot IDPA last.

Footing is a lot of it as the others have said. But the SO and WHO is shooting makes a difference also. That's what makes the cover call so inconsistant, stage to stage and match to match. I have seen cover called on one shooter and nothing on the next for an even more flagrant violation. Joe Novice will get a call when Joe Pro-shooter gets by with it.

Most of the SOs will be extremely fair but some think they are not doing their job unless they call out something. And many don't stand in the right position behind the shooter to make the call anyway. One of the really silly calls is when they dink some poor guy for having an 80 gallon body trying to get behind a 55 gallon barrel for cover. All this causes is an unecessary distraction to the shooter being yelled at who will lose additional time trying to squish himself smaller. That on top of the procedural.

The best solution would be actual foot faults that are marked. Make the cover call an easy call and ftake the monkey off the back of the SO. Even though it may bring back memories of that other shooting game where the founders began.

IDPA can be fun but the rules leave a lot of room for the SO to have to make judgement calls. Having to do so isn't fair to the SO or the shooter. Just be aware of this, slow down and think what you are doing at each stage, and enjoy the shooting.

Craig

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

To answer your question, Bill hit it spot on. What you want to do is in your practice, practice both feet behind cover and 50% of your body behind cover. This will force you to lean out from the barricade while your feet stay behind.

I have shot matches where there is only one Cover warning given and that is at the pre match briefing. Is this proper? Not to me, but it is done. Calling cover is a difficult thing for a SO and I have always been of the mind set it needs to be a blatant violation but that is me.

As Bill said, if you are not leaning you are wrong and every shot while slicing should cause you to lean a little more.

[Joe D]

Most folks shoot too close to cover. The further away from the wall/barrel you are the less likely you will get a call.

[freeidaho]

spd522, on Oct 10 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

Cover procedurals should only come after a first call for cover goes un-corrected. Unless something has changed since I shot IDPA last.
Craig

This change came in the 2005 rulebook.

Safety Officers who observe a shooter not using cover properly should shout the command “COVER”. The shooter should immediately correct his use of cover. IDPA understands many shooters are often too fast in engaging targets for the SO to be able to warn the shooter in time. Therefore, if the Safety Officer did not have the time or opportunity to yell “COVER” before the shooter engaged targets without using cover properly, the shooter still earns a procedural error.

kr

[spd522]

freeidaho, on Oct 10 2008, 12:43 PM, said:

spd522, on Oct 10 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

Cover procedurals should only come after a first call for cover goes un-corrected. Unless something has changed since I shot IDPA last.
Craig

This change came in the 2005 rulebook.

Safety Officers who observe a shooter not using cover properly should shout the command “COVER”. The shooter should immediately correct his use of cover. IDPA understands many shooters are often too fast in engaging targets for the SO to be able to warn the shooter in time. Therefore, if the Safety Officer did not have the time or opportunity to yell “COVER” before the shooter engaged targets without using cover properly, the shooter still earns a procedural error.

kr

Nothing is different from 2006 when I shot my last match then.

That first part is what I was referring to about correcting after a warning. The 2nd part happens but again, usually is done by MA shooters or those of fame, and from my observations at several Nationals, most SOs are reluctant to make a call on a big name. And some SOs are slower to respond than others. So two shooters shooting the same course at the same speed could get two different responses just because of a different SO giving commands.

It is a simple fix to take this out of being guesswork by the SO to being pretty much an easy fault/no fault call. It won't change though until IDPA gets over the "too much like IPSC" stigma. I know BW, have shot at the range at his house many years, and consider him a friend. But he is stubborn on correcting some rules needing a bit of tuning.

Craig

[gringop]

spd522, on Oct 10 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

It is a simple fix to take this out of being guesswork by the SO to being pretty much an easy fault/no fault call.
Craig

How do you set a foot fault line for 3 targets 7 yards downrange, 3 yards from each other, each requiring a shift of the body to engage? The whole point of using cover is to not expose your body to the targets. If you want foot fault lines, shoot IPSC.

The best way to deal with Cover issues is to have the Scorekeeper checking the shooters angles and calling cover and the SO looking at the gun.

Gringop

[spd522]

gringop, on Oct 11 2008, 05:47 AM, said:

spd522, on Oct 10 2008, 08:46 PM, said:

It is a simple fix to take this out of being guesswork by the SO to being pretty much an easy fault/no fault call.
Craig

How do you set a foot fault line for 3 targets 7 yards downrange, 3 yards from each other, each requiring a shift of the body to engage? The whole point of using cover is to not expose your body to the targets. If you want foot fault lines, shoot IPSC.

The best way to deal with Cover issues is to have the Scorekeeper checking the shooters angles and calling cover and the SO looking at the gun.

Gringop

You lean your body out from cover. Your feet stay put. Basic tactical/survival shooting 101. I learned it in the police academy in 1981 so it isn't some new science.

I am saying foot faults take the problem of judgemental calls out of the equation and make it a no brainer. "Shoot IPSC" is a typical response.

Craig

This post has been edited by spd522: 11 October 2008 - 02:37 PM

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

You lean your body out from cover. Your feet stay put. Basic tactical/survival shooting 101. I learned it in the police academy in 1981 so it isn't some new science.

If the angle to be cut becomes too accute, it's quite acceptable to move your feet while engaging multiple targets. Actually, to maintain your balance and thus your rate of accurate aimed fire, it's can be downright desirable.

[kdmoore]

Just as an FYI, the advice to pick your spot and plant your foot there is solid, in my book. When I make cover calls, that's what I do (as SO). If your cross my imaginary line, they it's a cover violation. It allows me to be consistent, and timely with a "cover" call (which helps all but the speediest shooter).

I haven't really seen too many stages were you couldn't keep your feet planted in a single spot and just rotate out a little bit after engaging each target, and that's certainly the fastest way to shoot. So I look for my "fake fault line" and to see the shooters torso shift.

I try to shoot it that way too.

YMMV.