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Winchester 452aa


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#1 Sleuth

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 01:00 PM

I was just given 3 pounds of 452AA. I have worked up a load for 9mm, but does anyone have a load for .45 ACP, 230g LRN?

This powder only appears in one old Speer manual, which I have. As I recall, it was withdrawn because it was inversly temerature sensitive. (Hotter it got, the LESS velocity). Any of you older shooters remember? Brian, I know you have been around long enough - I used to hold a timer on you and that other guy back in the old days.

Thanks in advance
Sleuth

#2 tightloop

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 01:28 PM

Sleuth

I used to load 5.3gr of 452AA under a 200 gr H&G 68 in a 5" 1911 and make 855fps. It was less after we started shooting pin guns and then with the first comps, but that was the standard in these parts.

Winchester claims it was replaced by WST, but it isn't the same. It gave the softest recoil impulse of anything we could load with in those days.

Enjoy.

#3 Larry White

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 02:56 PM

I believe 452aa was the same as trap 100, in my old log I have a load of 5.5 with a 200swc for 890fps which goes with what Tightloop has. I also show a load that I don't remeber useing for a 230 lrn and 5.2 for 825 fps. That can of powder is as old as dirt. Start at about 4.9 or so and think about if you want to do this at all? Larry
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#4 dickwholliday

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 03:07 PM

i found the Win manual for the period and all they show it used for is 185 gr wadcutters......they show 4.5 grains at 769fps for a 185 grain.......if i were you i'd break out the chrono and start light.....D I C K

#5 George D

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 05:02 PM

Winchester claims it was replaced by WST, but it isn't the same.

I've used 452AA and WST, which was supposed to be 452AA renamed, but tightloop is correct - the same powder weight does not give the same performance. WST is also inversely temperature sensitive. 452AA was a very good powder and, provided it hasn't deteriorated, I think it would be worth using. I'd agree with Dick, start light and break out the chrono.
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#6 gm iprod

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 05:34 AM

All the fast ball powders seem to be inversely temp sensitive

I also heard it was withdrawn when Winchester/Olin dropped a whole bunch of old style powders like 571, 473 and 452AA went with them. It was rumoured it was because they were incompatable with steel and they (Olin) were worried about liability.

I have an old load from one of the guys who taught me how to shoot of 4.7gr under a 225gr LRN velocity was about 770fps = 173pf. Barrel length unknown. I'm with George out with the chrono.
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#7 Sleuth

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 10:29 AM

Thanks to all, at least I now have a starting point. And, depending on the monsoon season and the forest fires, Sunday I'll have BOTH crono's out, as well as a close examination of the brass for pressure.

BTW, it does produce very soft recoil in my wife's 9mm.

#8 dickwholliday

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 05:02 PM

hey i just remembered a long while back that i loaded some load of 452 with some 200 gr H&G....it would not make major but after sitting out in the hot sun a while.....made major no problem....D I C K

#9 TBF

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 06:42 PM

Speer #11 Circa 1987 lists:

45acp : Speer 230gr. FMJ :452AA: 4.7gr = 760 fps, and 5.3 ( Max ) = 825 fps.

If you would like, I can give the rest of the data, 185 TMJ, 200 TMJ, 200 HP, & 260 HP also listed.

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#10 TBF

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 06:47 PM

D'oh, I just reread your post Sleuth, and you said you already have that manual, nevermind.

OOPS. I should read before I type...

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#11 Sleuth

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 11:52 AM

TBF, No worries, your heart was in the right place. Thanks all.

#12 lynn jones

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 01:32 PM

yes, ww452 aa is temp sensitive!
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