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I need some Solo 1000 help


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#1 ben b.

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 01:31 PM

Loading for Major, looking for 170 PF. From 4.3 gr to 4.5 gr not much increase in velocity, makes me nervous as a new reloader. A little back flow/cratering around the primer. I do not see any flattening of primers. Here are the results, and any tips or thoughts?

1.125 OAL. Steyr pistol and factory 4" barrel. Only the first test is with 170 gr, the rest are 180 lead truncated cone. I can strectch the OAL out a bit, maybe to 1.135", but maybe only to 1.130". Primers are WSP. The chrony is a CED at 10 feet.

10 shots
170 gr LSWC
4.2 gr Solo1000
Avg (sd) 908 (9), PF 152

10 shots
180 gr LTC
4.2 gr Solo1000
Avg 893 (11), PF 160

10 shots
180 gr LTC
4.3 gr Solo1000
Avg 904 (5), PF 163

10 shots
180 gr LTC
4.4 gr Solo1000
Avg 902 (8), PF 162

15 shots
180 gr LTC
4.5 gr Solo1000
Avg 906 (8), PF 163

Edited by ben b., 30 July 2008 - 01:34 PM.

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#2 bdpaz

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 01:54 PM

Not the best powder for .40 S&W. I started using Solo 1000 for .45acp revolver loads so I emailed them to ask about using it in .40. The reply:

Brad,
It’s not exactly the ideal powder (evident in the low chargemass)
It will obviously be more appropriate for low performance target work than extreme high performance defense loads.
However, we suggest the following.
Caliber: .40 S&W.
Barrel length: 4”
Powder: Accurate – Solo 1000.

Bullet weight: 135 grains.
Start load: 4.8 grains (1100 – 1200 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 5.3 grains (1175 – 1275 Ft/p/sec).

Bullet weight: 155 grains.
Start load: 4.3 grains (900 – 1000 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 4.8 grains (1000 – 1100 Ft/p/sec).

Bullet weight: 165-170 grains.
Start load: 4.2 grains (850 – 925 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 4.6 grains (950 – 1050 Ft/p/sec).

Bullet weight: 180 grains.
Start load: 4.0 grains (825 – 875 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 4.5 grains (900 – 950 Ft/p/sec).

Bullet weight: 200 grains.
Start load: 3.7 grains (800 – 850 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 4.1 grains (875 – 920 Ft/p/sec).

NOTES:
It’ important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.
1. TO ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM “START” LOAD.
2. If at all possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.


It looks like your results are towards the low end of the expected range.
Brad Perkinson

#3 ben b.

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 03:43 PM

I loaded and tested in 9mm with Solo 100 too, and my results in 9mm were slower than others I've seen. I did use a longer OAL in 9mm, I used 1.150".

Possible that I got a slower batch of Solo? I found some older info from the factory that lists +/- 10% between lots as normal variance.

I looked over old .40 brass, and a lot of mine has some primer backflow = that light wavy outline around the pin strike hole. Perhaps I'll load some more .40 with Solo 1000 at 4.5 gr, 4.6 gr and 4.7 gr and retest.

Still looking for other tips, etc.

Best,

Ben
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#4 JDBraddy

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 06:02 PM

I'm facing the same question. I've used Solo-1000 in my 12ga and .45ACP loads for years now with much success, so I'd love to be able to use it in .40 S&W as well! Brandon Strayer just emailed to inform me my new SV Sight Tracker is complete, and my FFL holder is supposed to fax his information tomarrow, so he can ship. I've taken next week off from work, as I will have have some family visiting from out of town and have a few other things to do, so timing couldn't have been better! I bought a box of Zero 200gr TCFN's and a box of Precision 185gr Molly's to experiment with. I asked Brandon how long I should load these in his guns, and he replied....

"The OAL length that you want to use is a 1.2100-1.2300 with a 200gr bullet. The longer the better I have found for accuracy and feel."

This is way longer than the SAMMI specs max OAL, and probably wouldn't even fit in the magazine of most pistols chambered for this cartrige, so I don't know how applicable any data I collect will be for other gun types.
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#5 ben b.

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 03:30 PM

I loaded more test rounds to the same specs, with 4.5, 4.6, and 4.7 gr of Solo 1000.

My data shows a linear increase by charge weight, and decent std devs. The 4.7 gr is close to the limit I've seen of 4.8 gr for this powder. I still have a little back flow/cratering around the primer, which to me means the "raised wavy line outline around the primer strike hole". I see this in a lot of .40 primers, so I'm nott sure how much this qualifies as a valid or useful "over-pressure sign".

I do not see any flattening of primers. I think I have a slow batch of powder, my 9mm tests using Solo1000 were also slower than expected, with 3.2 gr and a 147 gr lead short of 125 PF. My velocities using W231 or Power Pistol in 9mm, .40 and .45 are either in the upper end or better than the web published data on the powder mfg sites.

1.125 OAL, mixed brass. Primers are WSP. The chronograph is a CED at 10 feet.

10 shots
180 gr LTC
4.5 gr Solo1000
Avg 898 (7), PF 161

10 shots
180 gr LTC
4.6 gr Solo1000
Avg 908 (7), PF 163

10 shots
180 gr LTC
4.7 gr Solo1000
Avg 917 (8), PF 165

Next I'm going to load some 4.6, 4.7, 4.8, 4.9 and see what I find. This may be overly conservative, I dunno. Any input will be appreciated. Well, any useful input will be appreciated. ;)

Thanks for listening,

Ben
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#6 SA Friday

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 01:44 AM

Ben, I'm currently separated from any of my notes, but from what I can recall from my testing in 9mm I did see primer flow before any other pressure signs and never reached the point where the primer was flattening. I also recall seeing some batches of my rounds with little to no change in velocity with a .1 to .2 gr increase in charge. When I saw this I went back to starting charge and re-did everything and worked back up. What I found was Solo 1000 can be a real bitch to get to throw consistantly when you are used to titegroup or n230. You really have to test the snot out of your charge until the powder settles in the hopper and you get a consistant throw out of your powder charge. I started doing 30+ test samples with every change of powder setting before I started to load rounds. After I started doing this, I started seeing a difference in the consistancy of the loads and a gradual increase in my load velocities.

If I recall what little testing I did was with 180 Precision bullets out of my Glock 24 with a KKM barrel. I was hitting pf of 168-170 at 4.6gr of Solo 1000 (this is from memory and there are a lot of penguin's on my iceberg FWIW). I did NOT do enough testing in 40 S&W for me to say I understand the loading dynamics of this powder in 40 or know how consistant this will be out of other guns. In 9mm, I did do enough testing, but never got around to playing with it in 40. Primer flow is without a doubt your first signs of pressure with Solo 1000. I never got to the point where I saw flattening and I don't know where that wall is, but I suspect it's very very close to ka-boom land. If the factory is saying 4.5 max load with a 180gr bullet, I would not venture anything past 4.8 without having a real good handle on pressure signs from the load/gun combination. Then again, from what you posted, it never says if these powder charges are for Jacketed bullets or lead bullets and that makes a difference in your max load. If they gave you loads for jacketed bullets you might be able to squeeze another .2 or .3 gr of powder out of it without really seeing any serious pressure signs.

So, after all of my ramblings, I would suggest really checking your powder throws thoroughly with another batch of test loads first. Then possibly try hotter loads second.

I also suspect many will be reading this string as time goes on. Not a lot of info about Solo 1000 in 40 S&W on BE and many will be curious. It is such a good powder, but a fairly new trend in our circles. Document your testing meticulously in this thread, please.
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#7 SA Friday

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 02:03 AM

OK, just re-read the entire thread again and a couple more items I wanted to point out. With a 4" barrel it's going to take more powder to get you to pf than my 6" KKM barrel. Secondly, you might have barrels that are slower than average. I see a consistant increase in velocity from OEM glock barrels compared to aftermarket KKM or Lone Wolf barrels in my Glocks. By all means, test away and document your findings, but in the end you may find that Solo 1000 is not be your best option. If so, try WST or even better WSF powders in 40 with lead bullets.

What gun were you shooting 147gr 9mm bullets out of and what kind of 147gr bullet was it? I was getting 131pf out of my G17 with this charge and a Precision bullet. There could be a reason you needed more powder other than a bad batch of powder.

When I tested Solo 1000 in 9mm, I went fairly high with it and never really saw what I would consider 'danger will robinson' pressure signs. I would imagine you could work to a 130-135pf out of whatever combo you are running with the 9mm 147gr bullet and not ever reach the danger zone.
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#8 ben b.

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 12:20 PM

I loaded more test rounds to the same specs, with 4.6, 4.7, 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 gr of Solo 1000. I too have found that the Solo1000 can be a PITA to dial in. Mostly it is straightforward, but sometimes changes to micrometer stem did not correspond to changes in charge and required multiple tests of 10 throws to verify. I spent a long fricking time last night getting these lined out, I can tell you!

My data still show a linear increase by charge weight, and decent std devs. I guess that the first freeze in velocity was due to measurement error.

I do see clear flattening of some primers in the upper charges. All show primer flow. I see some "maybe-maybe not" flattening in my 4.8 gr load. None of the cases look odd or measure odd with dial calipers (no micrometer).

1.125 OAL, mixed brass. Primers are WSP. The chronograph is a CED at 10 feet. Shot from a 4" factory barrel from a Steyr M40A1 pistol.

10 shots
180 gr lead truncated cone

4.5 gr Solo1000
Avg 910 (sd = 13), PF 163

4.6 gr Solo1000
Avg 919 (9), PF 165

4.7 gr Solo1000
Avg 925 (8), PF 166

4.8 gr Solo1000
Avg 943 (8), PF 169.8 (low PF 166, hi PF 171) This will be my load for further work


These loads begin to show clear signs of primer flattening


10 shots
4.9 gr Solo1000
Avg 960 (10), PF 172

5 shots
5.0 gr Solo1000
Avg 972 (10), PF 175
3 of 5 primers show flattening, cases appear fine. That's enough for me, thanks.

Contrast: CCI Blazer Brass 180 gr factory velocity published as = 985, mine was 911 (3) for 5 shots. My velocities for Power Pistol loads were considerably higher than the Alliant values. My velocities for W231 loads were a bit better than Hodgdon data.

Next, I tested 170 gr lead loads in Minor PF for IDPA games. These also showed some primer flow. Nice, tight groups at the target behind the chronograph.

1.125 OAL, mixed brass. Primers are WSP. The chronograph is a CED at 10 feet. Shot through a 4" factory barrel from a Steyr M40A1 pistol.
10 shots
170 gr lead SWC

3.6 gr Solo1000
Avg 830 (9), PF 141 (low PF 138, hi PF 143) New load to accuracy-test, the groups look a lot tighter than my W231 load.

3.8 gr Solo1000
Avg 851 (5), PF 144


4.0 gr Solo1000
Avg 875 (11), PF 148

Tested some 9mm also:

1.150 OAL, mixed brass. Primers are WSP. The chronograph is a CED at 10 feet. Shot from a 4" factory barrel from a Steyr M9A1 pistol.
10 shots for each, Solo 1000 powder, 149 gr lead conical Mizzou Bullets.

3.2 gr = 836(11), PF 124
3.3 gr = 859(11), PF 128 (125 - 130)
3.4 gr = 877(14), PF 130 (126 - 134) New load to accuracy-test
3.5 gr = 898(12), PF 133

Thanks for listening,

Ben

Edited by ben b., 01 August 2008 - 07:03 PM.

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#9 JDBraddy

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:10 PM

Not sure this will be applicable for anyone not shooting a 2011 platform, because I'm loading very long, but for those who are, here's what data I could salvage today. Much of the data was lost, because I recently traded in my old F-1 chrony in for the Gama chrony, and haven't learned how to use it's features yet, and since I didn't remember to take my owners manual to the range with me today, I forgot you have to manyally save each string to memory before turning it off, or the data in the working memory will be lost. So I'll have to repeat most of the loads I chronographed today, wich I don't really mind a bit because it's a great excuse to shoot my new blaster some more! The only one I saved did not make major, but talk about a smooth shooting minor load, WHOOOO!

200gr Zero TCFN in front of 4.0gr Solo-1000 loaded to 1.220" OAL, mixed brass, WSP primers. (10 shots).
Avg Velocity 743.5fps
Power factor 148.7
Extreme spread 52.3fps
Standard Deviation 17.4fps

BTW, here's a picture of the new blaster,

Posted Image

Ok here's the new data I collected today, It was 101 degrees Farenheight and 92% humidity around 2pm at the range today, and I was sweating buckets, but even at this temperature, none of these loads showed any pressure sign at all. The mildest shooting and the most accurate (1.6" from the bench at 25yds) of all the loads tried, was surprisingly also the least expensive to produce, makes 170 power factor with plenty of room to spare in the pressure department!
185gr RNF Precision Molly with 4.75gr Solo-1000 at 1.225 OAL, mixed brass, WSPM Primers.
Ya just can't beat that deal!
I need to shoot some more of it to be sure, but I'm pretty confident I've just found my new practice/competition load for my new SV!

200gr TCFN with 4.5gr Solo-1000 at 1.22" OAL, mixed brass, WSPM primers, (30 shots)
Avg Velocity 811.18
Power Factor 162.24
Extreme spread 72.48
Standard Deviation 18.80

200gr TCFN with 4.75gr Solo-1000 at 1.225 OAL, mixed brass, WSPM primers, (9 shots)
Avg Velocity 838.07
Power Factor 167.6
Extreme Spread 109.45
Standard Deviation 40.12

185gr RNF Precision Molly with 4.75gr Solo-1000 at 1.225 OAL, mixed brass, WSPM Primers, (10 shots)
Avg Velocity 921.40
Power Factor 170.4
Extreme Spread 27.02
Standard Deviation 7.68

185gr RNF Precision Molly with 5.0gr Solo-1000 at 1.225 OAL, mixed brass, WSPM Primers, (10 shots)
Avg Velocity 940.68
Power Factor 174.0
Extreme Spread 46.96
Standard Deviation 14.66

Edited by JDBraddy, 06 August 2008 - 02:35 PM.

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#10 Bergie

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 04:19 PM

I started out low like you are doing and was very concerned about pressure.
I have a SV .40 heavy dustcover Shuemann barrel. (I don't know anything about this load for any other gun so take this with a grain of salt. Be careful. This is only my experience.)

My load is:

5.4 grains of Solo 1000
180 gr Magtech FMC-flat
1.2 OAL
Winchester small rifle primer

There are no signs of pressure what so ever.

I have had very good consistency when chronoing this load. 955 FPS on CED chrono. 172PF

When I load lead bullets I lower the powder charge exactly 1 grain.

The Solo 1000 burns real clean.

You are correct when you say that it does not meter very well out of your powder measure. I have found it goes up or down .1 but not more than that.
I upped my charge 0.1 grain so I would not have to worry about having a load too light at the chrono in a big match.

Good Luck

Edited by Bergie, 22 August 2008 - 04:23 PM.


#11 JDBraddy

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 04:06 AM

I started out low like you are doing and was very concerned about pressure.
I have a SV .40 heavy dustcover Shuemann barrel. (I don't know anything about this load for any other gun so take this with a grain of salt. Be careful. This is only my experience.)

My load is:

5.4 grains of Solo 1000
180 gr Magtech FMC-flat
1.2 OAL
Winchester small rifle primer

There are no signs of pressure what so ever.

I have had very good consistency when chronoing this load. 955 FPS on CED chrono. 172PF

When I load lead bullets I lower the powder charge exactly 1 grain.

The Solo 1000 burns real clean.

You are correct when you say that it does not meter very well out of your powder measure. I have found it goes up or down .1 but not more than that.
I upped my charge 0.1 grain so I would not have to worry about having a load too light at the chrono in a big match.

Good Luck



Wow! Great to know I've got plenty of wiggle room. I've been sticking with

185gr RNF Precision Molly with 4.75gr Solo-1000 at 1.225 OAL, mixed brass, WSPM Primers, (10 shots)
Avg Velocity 921.40
Power Factor 170.4
Extreme Spread 27.02
Standard Deviation 7.68

I'm just shooting local matches right now, so 170pf is enough over major for me not to worry about it much. I don't think I've ever had my load chronographed at a match. This load has been consistant, accurate, very mild shooting, and relatively inexpensive to produce. Since I went to 5.0 without pressure sign, and you say you're using 5.4gr without pressure sign, using about the same OAL, it sounds like a safe place to stay. The only problem I've had so farr has been having to toss a lot of range brass due to the infamous Glock Bulge. I've ordered an EGW U-die, that according to many posts here, should remedy that, at least I hope it will. JDBraddy
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#12 Harmon

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:33 AM

Mostly it is straightforward, but sometimes changes to micrometer stem did not correspond to changes in charge and required multiple tests of 10 throws to verify. I spent a long fricking time last night getting these lined out, I can tell you!



you have to take the backlash out of the powder measure screw otherwise you will never get consistent powder throws.

adjust the powder measure to where it throws too much powder and then adjust it down to what you need.


it took me a bit to figure it out myself, but once you do, the chrono numbers will tighten up considerably.

harmon


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#13 ben b.

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 09:04 AM

Harmon, I'll try that. My SDs range from 8-12, so I'm feeling good about that, but I would like to reduce the time spent when changing charge weights.

Thanks

Ben
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#14 Throwin Lead

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 03:48 PM

Harmon, I'll try that. My SDs range from 8-12, so I'm feeling good about that, but I would like to reduce the time spent when changing charge weights.

Thanks

Ben


Ben
You might want to look into the micrometer powder bar kit from Uniquetek. A $50 investment that really takes the frustration out of dialing in charges plus little to no drift in charges throughout production runs. You will notice a decrease in ES & SD.
At one match the chrono operator thought there was an error in his equipment as my velocities were 773, 773, 774.
www.uniquetek.com
Mike
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#15 Harmon

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 04:15 PM

ive always been leary of micrometer measure because of the thread backlash issue.

Harmon


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#16 ben b.

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 06:57 PM

...

adjust the powder measure to where it throws too much powder and then adjust it down to what you need.


it took me a bit to figure it out myself, but once you do, the chrono numbers will tighten up considerably.

Using this has really cut out the hassle and throw variances when changing charge weights, and quickened the changes. Thanks for the tip on this.

Ben
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#17 Merlin Orr

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:11 PM

Anyone have anything new to add for Solo 1000....? I am going to order tomorrow and try an 8# bottle with Precision 170s and perhaps some 185s. :cheers:

edit to add... 6" Benny Built ...... B)

Edited by Merlin Orr, 02 November 2008 - 09:12 PM.

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#18 ken hebert

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 06:41 PM

Merlin, I'm gonna try out 4.6g with Precision 170 molys in my 6".
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#19 Merlin Orr

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 07:02 PM

I ended up messing around and not having time to try the Solo 1000 for Area 4. Went with AA2 instead and think I could be happy with it for .40. Nice quick recoil impulse with a straight up and down movement - a little less snappy than TG and a LOT cooler with visibly less smoke.

With that being said I still will be trying Solo as I think it may just be the "magic bullet." IMO It is definitely a Very nice powder for 9mm with heavier bullets.
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#20 ben b.

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 05:42 PM

I ended up messing around and not having time to try the Solo 1000 for Area 4. Went with AA2 instead and think I could be happy with it for .40. Nice quick recoil impulse with a straight up and down movement - a little less snappy than TG and a LOT cooler with visibly less smoke.

With that being said I still will be trying Solo as I think it may just be the "magic bullet." IMO It is definitely a Very nice powder for 9mm with heavier bullets.

I'm still loading 4.8 gr with 180 gr lead, chronos well with good SD, and I have not seen remarkable variance in PF over time. Using a 6" barrel in the same pistol, with same load, the PF went from 171 in the 4" barrel to PF 187 in the 6" barrel.

The fast burning Solo1000 is not optimal for .40 Major but seems to work, and I usually can tell a big diff in smoke vs. other powders with lead slugs (Power Pistol and W231). I use the same 4.8 charge for .45 to make Major with a 200 gr LSWC, and that is a nice load. I now use only Solo1000 for what I relaod: 9mm, .40 and .45, and that is nice.
Keep it alive Ben! Keep the dream going!
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...Is there a real need to chase the softest mousefart?
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#21 Carlos

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:05 AM


With that being said I still will be trying Solo as I think it may just be the "magic bullet." IMO It is definitely a Very nice powder for 9mm with heavier bullets.



I use the same 4.8 charge for .45 to make Major with a 200 gr LSWC, and that is a nice load. I now use only Solo1000 for what I relaod: 9mm, .40 and .45, and that is nice.


I load it in .45 ACP revolver, 40 Major and 9mm minor - which is also what I like about it: one powder to rule them all. Seems like Solo 1000 is N320s replacement for me at least.
No, my last name is not Hathcock. -C.

"When one who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest." -anon.

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March 2008


#22 JDBraddy

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:16 PM

Well, the EGW U-die has solved my "Glock-Bulge" problem. I've now loaded and fired four thousand of the load I settled on above, and to date, it's working great for me! My OAL had started to walk out to about 1.230 and I've adjusted it back to where it's now seating them between 1.222-1.224 other than that, I see no reason to change anything. I'm down to about three pounds left now, and just called Trainer Hale supply, and was quoted $270 for a 25lb keg, so my next day off, I'll head over there, and pick up some more before someone decides to slaps some more tax on it, and the price goes up.

185gr RNF Precision Molly with 4.75gr Solo-1000 at 1.225 OAL, mixed brass, WSPM Primers, (10 shots)
Avg Velocity 921.40
Power Factor 170.4
Extreme Spread 27.02
Standard Deviation 7.68

Edited by JDBraddy, 18 November 2008 - 08:23 PM.

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#23 fpgb1

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 06:46 PM

Any one using Solo 1000 with Montana gold 180?

#24 LPatterson

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 07:58 AM

Anyone in Montana know where to find Solo 1000?
LeRoy Patterson
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#25 XRe

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 08:09 AM

ive always been leary of micrometer measure because of the thread backlash issue.


The answer to this is to always approach the setting from the same direction... I get the same weight every time at the same setting if I use appropriate procedure. The thread pitch is extremely fine, though, and the backlash very minimal.

Sorry for the drift :)
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