[Johann the Horrible]

A well known and loved shooter, Dr Paul Mouton was murdered during this week on a shooting range in Gauteng, South Africa. He apparently left his pistol on the firing point and went forward to check his target when persons unknown shot him 4 times in the back. His grandson arrived at the scene shortly afterwards and tried to save his grandfathers life but to no avail. The only missing item is Dr Mouton's custom Colt pistol. It is believed that his attackers entered the range by climbing over the perimeter fence.

The whole shooting community in South Africa is shocked. Our loss is enormous.

Personally I am speechless. I spent some time with Dr Mouton a few weeks back and, as always he was the perfect gentleman, kindly and thoughtful. Always ready to help a fellow shooter with deed and advice. I will remember him for his humbleness. My condolences to the family.


One of our greatest sons has fallen!

[Steve J]

Our prayers are with his family and friends. Senseless, random violence is all the more tragic.

[Greg Bell]

Tragic!
My thoughts to his friends and family.

[ccur]

I am so sorry...what a senseless tragedy...Prayers sent for the family
Cheryl

[SiG Lady]

That's GHASTLY!!! Is no place safe any more!! My thoughts are with you.

[UW Mitch]

That's awful! My condolences to his friends and family.

~Mitch

[irq23]

That is a terrible tragedy. My condolences.

I do not mean to be callous in any way, but I thought some might be interested in these figures. Although I believe the murder rates have come down as of late, South Africa ranks 2nd in murders and 1st in rape per capita out of 60 industrialized nations polled by the UN. According to the same source, hijackings are also a serious problem there. I do not know the laws for personal carry in South Africa but it makes one value the ability of myself and many other US citizens to carry firearms for self defense.

[Neomet]

Absolutely tragic. My thoughts are with all who knew and loved him.

[CSEMARTIN]

I'm in shock. Who has ever heard of this happening? I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend. This is truly horrific.

It sounds like the people guilty of this cowardly crime were watching and waiting for an opportunity. Thank God his grandson wasn't harmed.

[Flexmoney]

Terrible news.

CSEMARTIN, on Jul 18 2008, 11:35 PM, said:

Who has ever heard of this happening?

http://www.herald-di...ught-in-killing

[Nik Habicht]

CSEMARTIN, on Jul 18 2008, 11:35 PM, said:

Who has ever heard of this happening?

Ten years ago or so, there was series of TV movies featuring various FBI gunfights, including an installment on the Miami Massacre of 1986. IIRC, the two perpetrators in that crime acquired at least some of their guns by killing people in areas where target practice was going on.

My range has rules governing every area but the pits, vis-a-vis leaving guns with actions open on the firing line while resetting targets. I'm pretty certain that those rules are occasionally broken when individual shooters are alone on the property.....

I do all of my practice in the pits when I'm alone --- and my holstered gun only goes cold when it's time to leave.....

[el pres]

I'm really sorry to hear something like that, really sorry for your loss.
Senseless acts like that are just pure discusting evil, they'll get their's !!!

Rules or no rules, "public" ranges are a place to be conceald at all times. The way I always see it is
one gun to protect the other and appearently a life.

This post has been edited by DIRTY CHAMBER: 18 July 2008 - 10:40 PM

[Slabbie Shooter]

What an obscene crime. The most gentlemanly place these days is a firing range. For this to happen is a grave horror.

So sorry to hear this and my thoughts/prayers are with the family.

Let's go hunting.

[The Antichrome]

CSEMARTIN, on Jul 18 2008, 10:35 PM, said:

Who has ever heard of this happening? .

The following article appeared in my clubs newsletter this month:

Back in the early 80s, there was an infamous shootout in Florida between FBI agents and 2 bank robbers. Several FBI agents and the 2 robbers were killed. An interesting part of what led up to the robberies is that the robbers obtained their guns by going out into the country to places where people liked to shoot and in 2 instances they found a man who was out shooting alone. They would pretend to be there to shoot and then they shot the guy who was plinking. They did this so they could take his firearms. In one instance the victim died and in the other they forced him into a pond, shot him multiple times and left him for dead. He later crawled out of the pond and walked several miles before he found help. For more info go to http://www.thegunzon.../11april86.html

Last Tuesday evening (6/04/08) about 6:00, I went with my 6 year old son to the river range. When we got there the gate was wide open and the lock was hanging open on the chain. I couldn't see any vehicles anywhere on the range. I loaded one of my pistols, got out and locked the gate behind me. Even though I planned to shoot only a few rounds of surplus ammo through an AR15 to see if they'd function, I drove around the range first to see who was there.

There wasn't anyone on the property but me and my son. We shot and then left, and closed and locked the gate behind us.

The last time I went to the Alma range, I found it wide open also--and no gun club members present. Several times in years past when going to the Alma range, I found it open and closed and locked it. On one occasion, a man at the range asked if I had locked it and when I said yes, he got mad and told me that he had a friend who would be there soon (obviously a non-member friend). I mentioned that the club rules require that the gate be kept locked except during matches--for our safety.

Please keep us all safe. You might not care if a criminal shoots you, but for our sake don't give him your guns and ammo. Lock the gates behind you. If someone at the range asks you to leave the gate open so they can drive out 5 minutes after you, politely tell them that the club rules don't allow it. Within those 5 minutes that once in a lifetime criminal could drive in and corner them. We're all friendly and thankfully can and do keep our guard down, but that gate is one of the reasons we can keep our guard down.

http://ofgc.org/new/...July%202008.pdf

[Johann the Horrible]

irq23, on Jul 19 2008, 04:15 AM, said:

That is a terrible tragedy. My condolences.

I do not mean to be callous in any way, but I thought some might be interested in these figures. Although I believe the murder rates have come down as of late, South Africa ranks 2nd in murders and 1st in rape per capita out of 60 industrialized nations polled by the UN. According to the same source, hijackings are also a serious problem there. I do not know the laws for personal carry in South Africa but it makes one value the ability of myself and many other US citizens to carry firearms for self defense.

It is common knowledge in South Africa that the crime statistics is wildly inaccurate. Only the minister of Law and Order himself is allowed to release crime statistics and the function to retrieve the statistics on Police computers has been removed so that Police personnel cannot retrieve it any longer, not even on their own stations. While the minister is indicating that Housebreaking is in rapid decline the short term insurance industry reports that claims for housebreaking is increasing hand over fist. This happens in a country where all cabinet members are also communists.

It seems that Big brother believes that he should protect us from panic by putting the truth is the "correct" perspective".

[Hi-Power Jack]

Fifteen years ago, I was "alone" at my local
gun club, firing my .45 acp at 25 yards.

When I left my .45 at the bench to go forward
and check the target, concentrating on the
target I guess, someone appeared a few feet
behind me - I was so intent on my shooting
and the target, that I never saw or heard
him coming up behind me.

It all ended well (obviously), but a real lesson
which I've tried not to forget.

Another time, I was shooting my brand new .45
on my 35 acre farm (which I had been doing
many times before), when I saw movement a
little to the left of the target while I was shooting.

Two 10 year old boys heard the shooting and were
walking toward me to investigate (through the
woods). That's when I joined a club and stopped
shooting on my own farm.

Scared the hell out of me, both times.

[kurtm]

Too many times I have seen people get done shooting, take off all their gear and put it away and then get out a brass bag and pick up brass, completely UNARMED! Criminals know where guns are, they are at shooting ranges, once you are unarmed you are prey. ALWAYS have your pistol and DON't shoot all your ammo NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!

I am sickend that this happened. My thoughts and prayers go to the family, I don't want to sound callous either but this should be a MAJOR lesson for ALL of us. Locked gates don't keep anyone safe either, only situational awareness and a LOADED firearm. KurtM

[BSeevers]

Sorry about your loss. There have been many cases in the US like this also. I guess thats why I'm not unfriendly when somebody is around at the range but always kinda wary.
Private range means nothing either. Walking or even driving around a gate takes 2 seconds.

Bank robbers rob banks because that's where the money is and a gun range is a great place to find somebody to rob a gun from.

This post has been edited by BSeevers: 19 July 2008 - 11:02 AM

[bgary]

Quote

While the minister is indicating that Housebreaking is in rapid decline the short term insurance industry reports that claims for housebreaking is increasing hand over fist.

That's interesting, and very sad. I was last down there about 3 years ago, and was struck by the level of fortifications people had built around their houses in the Jo'burg suburbs (I was working in and around Sandton and Sunninghill, with periodic commutes into Jo'burg and Pretoria). Tall masonry walls with concertina on top, bars on the windows, etc. Kinda got one's attention.

(Actually, what really got my attention was when I traded emails with an IPSC acquaintance before my arrival. He asked "are you bringing a gun?". When I said I hadn't planned to, he said "tell me what flight you're coming in on. I'll bring one to the airport for you". )

It's a beautiful country. So sad to see it wracked with violence. My condolences for the loss of your friend.

B

[jessej]

WTF?! I just don't understand what is wrong with some people! Sorry for your loss man.

On a side note, at the range; i always have a mag loaded ready on the bench that i never touch.

[JKSNIPER]

The "F.B.I. shoot out men were Platt and Matix (Spelling?).
One suffered a "non-survivable wound" very early in the gunfight yet went on to inflict (I believe) all the wounds suffered by the FBI Agents that tried to arrest them.
Willie Sutton was the bank robber who was famous for his often heard quote:
Reporter: "Willie why do you rob banks?"
Sutton: "Because thats where the money is." (DOH!)

ALWAYS have a weapon on hand READY TO GO.
I was asked if I was carrying a weapon once and answered in the affirmative and was then asked if it was loaded.
Again I answered yes and then was asked why it was loaded...was I expecting trouble.
My answer was "I carry my guns loaded because I discovered very early on that the unloaded ones don't work."

Its the ONLY "beef" I have with the sport (but I agree with it due to safety reasons) that they make us enter and leave the area with unloaded firearms.
A hard habit to get into since my department has trained everyone that their weapon should ALWAYS be "hot" and has instituted a "hot line" policy in firearms training. Whenever your weapon goes cold you are to take whatever action you need to bring it back to "hot" status. (Load, clear malfunction, etc)
My first few matches (and still) I found myself starting to re-load at the end of a course of fire and holstering a loaded weapon.
R.O. would look at me and say :"What are you doing?"
"Whoops" Sorry. Force of habit and training."

However.....I have no doubt that anyone that tried to be stupid enough to rob weapons from USPSA shooters during a match would be in the "Stupid Criminal" section of the next days news.
After we all stopped laughing..."Wait....no... really.... you are holding us up for our guns? Shooter ready?"
Beep!
JK

[revchuck]

First, my condolences to Dr. Mouton's family and friends. What a tragic way for a good life to end!

I was stationed in Germany during the mid-80s with the US Army, and was able to join a German gun club there. During this time period, there was quite a number of terrorists active; while I was there, a Soldier was killed for his ID card and the ID card used to gain entrance to Rhein-Main Air Base to emplace a car bomb. Another car bomb went off in the Frankfurt Main PX parking lot in the same time period.

A fellow shooter at the gun club advised me to carry all the time when I was there by myself shooting. My Walther PP was kept in a pocket at all times. Yeah, this was illegal...and the friend who advised me was a German cop.

Even today, when I'm alone at a range shooting, the gun goes into the holster when I go forward to check targets.

[Paul Burtchell]

Truly tragic and unbelievable. My condolences. Makes you think...

[J-Ho]

I used to shoot with a Dr. from South Africa. He told me once that he dearly loved his country and missed it terribly. He also told me he would NEVER go back. He missed his country not because he wasn't there, but because his country was no longer what he knew and loved.
Thank you for sharing this with us. It certainly makes you think a differently about range safety.

[Barrettone]

'Nuff said.

(Attachment removed by poster due to questionable content.)

This post has been edited by Barrettone: 20 July 2008 - 05:13 PM