[tonyfalkon]

Outside the house there are 2 paper targets on both sides and 1 pepper popper on the left side after which you open the door enter the hallway but there is a paper target at the end of the hallway visible when you open the door and at the end of the hallway to the left side there is an opening and 3 more paper targets are waiting.

Question

When you enter the door can you specify in the briefing that you can engage the threat at the end of the hallway when you enter as long as they are moving towards it or engage the threat before you enter the hallway (ie pie the door) which one is better.

About ESP and SSP if they choose to engage the threat while moving thru the hallway they will run dry and will have to do a reload in the hallway. Hallway is hard cover of course, but the question is, is that legal. Reloading in front of a threat whether eliminated or not.

Or is this just bad course design and just remove the threat at the end of the hallway visible when you open the door.


Please direct to the right thread if this scenario has already been discussed.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Pie the door to shoot the target at the end of the hall. SSP and ESP will reload before they leave the cover of the door. If cover is available it must be used.

[bruce282]

I once shot a stage in the PA State match with a similar layout. You opened a door and engaged two targets, one to left and one to the right. You then walked down a hall (defined by walls). It was a typical 12 round IDPA stage. During the walkthru we were told we could, after engaging both targets, move forward a few steps, stop and do a RWR or TR, then start walking again. We could not reload on the move. From the reload position there were no other targets visible, the rest were around a corner that you had to pie.

Bruce

[RobMoore]

bruce282, on Jul 18 2008, 09:02 AM, said:

I once shot a stage in the PA State match with a similar layout. You opened a door and engaged two targets, one to left and one to the right. You then walked down a hall (defined by walls). It was a typical 12 round IDPA stage. During the walkthru we were told we could, after engaging both targets, move forward a few steps, stop and do a RWR or TR, then start walking again. We could not reload on the move. From the reload position there were no other targets visible, the rest were around a corner that you had to pie.

Bruce

Seems silly and counter to the rules that you're "behind cover" while stopped in the hallway to perform your reload, but not while moving. Sounds like they were trying to slow "gamers" down artificially, from your description.


As for the original COF listed....I'm unclear, is the shooter starting with 6? Why would an SSP/ESP shooter run dry before the last target? To me it seems like they engage T1-T2 & P1 before opening the door (5 rounds), engage T3 before entering the hallway (7) run to the end of the hall, and engage T4-T5 (11) dry reload and engage T6.

This post has been edited by RobMoore: 18 July 2008 - 02:06 PM

[tonyfalkon]

copy

This post has been edited by tonyfalkon: 23 July 2008 - 05:20 AM

[tonyfalkon]

Quote

Here is the stage



Scenario:

You are about to enter your house after a long day, you are about to open the door when you realized that the door has been tampered with. Bad guys have invaded and are in and around your house.

Steel plate goes down and reveals another threat, door activates swinger at the end of the hallway. Hallway is hard cover

Stage briefing:

Start position is holding the door knob with your weak hand suitcase on strong hand, you can engage swinger as you enter the hallway as long as you can neutralize the swinger or you can engage the swinger as you pie the door. Gun loaded and holstered, cover garment required.

Pedro is shooting ESP and decided to shoot the swinger on the move while entering the hallway, did a reload and then finish off the other 2 threats to the left of the swinger.

Raw time : 9.54
T1 is 0 zero down
T2 is -1 & -1
T3 is -1 & -3
steel is down
T4 Steel activated paper is -1 & -3
T5 Swinger is -3 & -5
T6 is 0 down
T7 is -1

Since he didn't neutralize T5 can you add an FTDR, also if after the reload the shooter saw that he didn't have at least a -1 on T5 can he re-engage T5, or is this just bad stage management/briefing?

[RobMoore]

Now I see what you mean. Yes, a shooter would have to engage the swinger using the door or frame as cover. Thats in the rulebook, and I would assume they'd have to reload before entering the hallway, depending on your MD's definition of "cover".

I think, at first glance, I'd open the door enough to activate the swinger as I engage the left side threats, kick the door shut as I move to engage the right side, move to the right of the door, pull it all the way open, engage swinger, reload, move down hallway, finish remaining.....thats how I'd "game" it.... so a savvy designer would leave enough slack in the line that the door has to open far enough to activate the swinger that a person can't stand behind it without exposing themselves to the left and right side threats.

This post has been edited by RobMoore: 23 July 2008 - 02:34 PM

[tonyfalkon]

So you can't shoot the swinger on the move, and that saying you can is just bad judgment on the part of the designer??

[RobMoore]

Its not without precedent to write into stage directions to leave cover and shoot a target on the move (postal match 08) , but its certainly not the norm.

[MemphisMechanic]

I do it all the time. Slap something in the description about that target 'appearing' once you've left the cover of the door frame. Rulebook neither prohibits nor recommends this.

Honestly, I'd probably just put a waist-high bar in the hallway that you activate turnstyle-like to start the swinger - sorta like a tripwire, without the risk of tripping a shooter. They used that in one of the big Manchester, TN matches - I think the 08 TN Championship.