[Jack Suber]

I need some advice/guidance/feedback. Do any of you run a Steel Challenge match at the "club Level"? I started a monthly Steel Challenge match at my local club and it is really starting to take off. The club purchased a full SC target set and we are setting up 5 stages at our monthly match (alternating the SC stages). This month was our 3rd formal SC match and we had 40 shooters. We had lots of spectators show today who said they would be back next month to compete. I am excited at the number of ladies and juniors who are coming out to shoot. So now, I need to focus on the management side of things.

Questions:

1. At your monthly SC matches, do you allow shooters to shoot multiple guns? I have allowed people to shoot a main gun and then a rimfire (as a second gun). Today, I people were asking if they could shoot 3 guns (Optics, Iron, and the Rimfire). I am wondering if that is too much to handle on a monthly match? Do any other clubs allow this?

2. We are running 5 stages and are finishing in about 3 hours ( with 40 shooters). Is that reasonable time wise?

3. I have created my scoresheet, one for each stage for each gun. Its OK, but is a lot of paper to keep track of, especially when you have people shooting multiple guns. What are your scoresheets like? Do you have a template for your monthly matches that you would be willing to share?

4. If you do let people shoot multiple guns, do you let them shoot back-to-back? Today, we had a squad that let people shoot their second gun immediately following their main gun. Another squad made the shooter shoot one gun, then wait a few shooters to shoot their 2nd gun. There did not seem to be much of a difference in time for each squad finishing a stage. I am curious how other clubs handle this - mainly wanting to make sure we are as efficient as we can be.

Our IPSC/USPSA staff have matches down to a science. Steel is a new animal to us and we want to promote it. Any ideas, thoughts, resources, would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Flexmoney]

I ran the local SC match for the last number of years (just gave it up this year).

I never allowed shooters to re-shoot during the regular match. It's like adding a whole shooter to the squad. (Each shooter takes a similar amount of time to run as it does in an USPSA match...with 5 runs and re-holstering and such.)

If you were to allow them, you'd want to adjust your squad sizes to reflect the number of guns on a squad (not just the number of shooters).

Realize that if you do allow them, that will also be like losing a squad member/worker...while they are off dealing with switching out their guns, gear and such.

If you do allow them, spread them out. Letting them go back to back will take longer as they re-gear. It might also put off the other shooters who haven't had a chance to shoot once yet.


We run a re-shoot match right after the regular match...as long as their is enough demand to do so. The re-shooters are asked to stick around and help with tear-down. (which is pretty easy with our steel match).

Always keep in mind that the hard-core shooters will do whatever you let them. Shooting is like crack. It's the main shooting body that you need to keep happy. They are the ones that will show up to shoot if things run well...and won't be there if things don't run well. And, you might never hear them speak of it. (unlike the hard-core guys...who will be begging for more shooting, no matter what)

[AlamoShooter]

I have ran a Steel Challenge style club for 16 years now. seams like some day I should get to be a good shooter.
Any way I got my start shooting two guns Rev and Auto We use a "Stage" sheet for each stage. If a shooter wants to keep a record of their own score I have some sheets to give out. I use and Excel sheet that has the totals formulas
and the score is by % points
As Steel Challenge gets near in the Summer and we do just Steel Challenge stages I drop in to "Time Only" for stage and match placement.

It would take a very competent shooter to shoot three guns = I have never had it in a match. I tell the guys that want to shoot two guns now that they will have to help with the squad twice as much as any one Else or it will put a burden on the squad mates.
You can look at the over all score page at our club web page and I will send you a copy of our stage sheets if that is helpful
Jamie
Alamo Sport Shooting Club
What we used to do is run the extra guns in a seperat squad at the end of the match = that takes lots of time, now the shooter just shoots at the front and back end of the squad on each stage.

This post has been edited by AlamoShooter: 21 June 2008 - 08:49 PM

[tgibson]

I have just recently started running SC matches on Wednesday nights at one of our local clubs, so take my opinions however you like . We run four stages each week. This way we get to shoot all eight stages, just not all at once. I have notes below in RED

I need some advice/guidance/feedback. Do any of you run a Steel Challenge match at the "club Level"? I started a monthly Steel Challenge match at my local club and it is really starting to take off. The club purchased a full SC target set and we are setting up 5 stages at our monthly match (alternating the SC stages). This month was our 3rd formal SC match and we had 40 shooters. We had lots of spectators show today who said they would be back next month to compete. I am excited at the number of ladies and juniors who are coming out to shoot. So now, I need to focus on the management side of things.

Questions:

1. At your monthly SC matches, do you allow shooters to shoot multiple guns? I have allowed people to shoot a main gun and then a rimfire (as a second gun). Today, I people were asking if they could shoot 3 guns (Optics, Iron, and the Rimfire). I am wondering if that is too much to handle on a monthly match? Do any other clubs allow this? As long as they are paying for an additional gun, I let them shoot as many as they would like. You do have to make sure they are helping out more, and I have them shoot one gun then have a couple shooters go before thier second gun. THEY NEED TO HUSTLE THOUGH!!!

2. We are running 5 stages and are finishing in about 3 hours ( with 40 shooters). Is that reasonable time wise? Sounds good to me. We are not in too big of a hurry, but we usually run 16 or so shooters in about an hour and a half.

3. I have created my scoresheet, one for each stage for each gun. Its OK, but is a lot of paper to keep track of, especially when you have people shooting multiple guns. What are your scoresheets like? Do you have a template for your monthly matches that you would be willing to share? I have a score sheet with all four stages on one sheet that works really well. I'd be happy to send it to you if you'd like.

4. If you do let people shoot multiple guns, do you let them shoot back-to-back? Today, we had a squad that let people shoot their second gun immediately following their main gun. Another squad made the shooter shoot one gun, then wait a few shooters to shoot their 2nd gun. There did not seem to be much of a difference in time for each squad finishing a stage. I am curious how other clubs handle this - mainly wanting to make sure we are as efficient as we can be. See note above.

Our IPSC/USPSA staff have matches down to a science. Steel is a new animal to us and we want to promote it. Any ideas, thoughts, resources, would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hope this helps.
Adios,
TG

[tgibson]

If you need the last three stages to get the complete match, I know where you can get some good steel.
Adios,
TG

[Chuck Anderson]

I think if someone is shooting Open or Limited and then switch over to Rimfire there shouldn't be much equipment change. .22 is done from the low ready (at least at our club) and none of our Rimfire folks shoot with mag pouches on. Shoot the open/limited gun and then switch right over to the .22lr. Seems like it would actually be quicker then putting them further down. Less prep time at the beginning maybe.

[ken hebert]

1. At your monthly SC matches, do you allow shooters to shoot multiple guns? I have allowed people to shoot a main gun and then a rimfire (as a second gun). Today, I people were asking if they could shoot 3 guns (Optics, Iron, and the Rimfire). I am wondering if that is too much to handle on a monthly match? Do any other clubs allow this?

*Yes, I will allow as many guns as a competitor wants. I just enter each gun in as a different shooter and treat the squads accordingly. Shooters enter the match for $10, and it's $5 per each additional gun. I look at it as more money for the club.

2. We are running 5 stages and are finishing in about 3 hours ( with 40 shooters). Is that reasonable time wise?

*Doesn't seem too bad to me.

3. I have created my scoresheet, one for each stage for each gun. Its OK, but is a lot of paper to keep track of, especially when you have people shooting multiple guns. What are your scoresheets like? Do you have a template for your monthly matches that you would be willing to share?

*We've made scoresheets for each competitor/gun with spaces for name, division, 6 stages, 5 times. Works well for us, and helps maintain a shooting order in the squad. We like it.

4. If you do let people shoot multiple guns, do you let them shoot back-to-back? Today, we had a squad that let people shoot their second gun immediately following their main gun. Another squad made the shooter shoot one gun, then wait a few shooters to shoot their 2nd gun. There did not seem to be much of a difference in time for each squad finishing a stage. I am curious how other clubs handle this - mainly wanting to make sure we are as efficient as we can be.

*I let them shoot as thery are ready, make their own placement in the squad. I try not to micromanage people in the shooting sports, I find that if they are responsible enough to run a firearms safely they can tell when they are ready.

Thanks. ***You're welcome.

This post has been edited by ken hebert: 22 June 2008 - 09:42 AM

[warpspeed]

Multiple guns is fine but not at the same time unless the squad is small. also, I think it gives an advantage as I seem to get better after I've shot the same stage 15 time in a row. Definitely charge for additional runs. Full price if you hand out awards, discount if not.

time wise, doesn't seem too bad but we can usually get through all 8 in 3 hours. With 40 people and 5 stages, 8 per squad should go a little faster especially if you do not have outer limits.

One score sheet with all 8 stages. I'll see if I can scan it. It makes the whole thing easy.

[shred]

Jack Suber, on Jun 21 2008, 09:41 PM, said:

I need some advice/guidance/feedback. Do any of you run a Steel Challenge match at the "club Level"? I started a monthly Steel Challenge match at my local club and it is really starting to take off. The club purchased a full SC target set and we are setting up 5 stages at our monthly match (alternating the SC stages). This month was our 3rd formal SC match and we had 40 shooters. We had lots of spectators show today who said they would be back next month to compete. I am excited at the number of ladies and juniors who are coming out to shoot. So now, I need to focus on the management side of things.

Questions:

1. At your monthly SC matches, do you allow shooters to shoot multiple guns? I have allowed people to shoot a main gun and then a rimfire (as a second gun). Today, I people were asking if they could shoot 3 guns (Optics, Iron, and the Rimfire). I am wondering if that is too much to handle on a monthly match? Do any other clubs allow this?

We've been holding them for several years. We allow second guns, but most of the time only one or two people take advantage of it. They usually have to shoot at the start and end of the squad

Quote

2. We are running 5 stages and are finishing in about 3 hours ( with 40 shooters). Is that reasonable time wise?

I figure an 8 shooter squad can get through one stage in 30 minutes or so.

Quote

3. I have created my scoresheet, one for each stage for each gun. Its OK, but is a lot of paper to keep track of, especially when you have people shooting multiple guns. What are your scoresheets like? Do you have a template for your monthly matches that you would be willing to share?

We enter the shooters into a spreadsheet at registration, then sort them by squad and print squad/stage scorecards-- everybody in the squad's name with spaces for the five runs and a total, one card per stage. Makes it really easy for stats to pick up the completed sheets and whack the totals into the spreadsheet since the names and scores are in the same order on the scorecard as they are on the spreadsheet. End of the match scores take about 2 minutes (more if you have a slower printer)-- type in the last few scores (usually one card or ~8 names) sort the sheet by whatever you want (open, limited, overall, etc) and print.

Other good ideas: set a mesh net beside each shooting box-- makes brassing super-easy.

[Nik Habicht]

Jack,
Our club can pull in about 70 shooters for a steel match. We allow second guns, but require that they be able to use the same holster, or be a .22 rimfire starting from the low ready. 3 Hours sounds pretty reasonable. We have one scoresheet per shooter --- with the entire match on one page. Before we lost our Steel Assistant MD, they were running two sessions in the warm weather months to deal with attendance, 65% still showed up for the morning session, but some came for the afternoon. During split sessions they didn't allow second gun entries --- IOW, want to shoot two guns, you're staying for both sessions. The afternoon session always finished faster than the morning session...

[Jack Suber]

Sorry for not getting back sooner...I have been migrating files and stuff from my old laptop to my new one. i am back in "business" now.

Thanks for all the feedback. I feel a little bit better - I think we are on the right track. Just need to tweek some things more.

I thought about it this weekend and then after reading some posts here, I think allowing 3 guns in a monthly match might be a little difficult. We are charging extra $5.00 for an additonal gun and I think we will keep it at 2 guns through the hot months (Our range can be a little warm during the summer).

The screen or tarp idea was brought up this weekend and I we will do this. It will make things easier.

I would appreciate anyone sharing their scoresheet with me. We have been using a excel scoring system. We have been giving out single (1/2 page) scoresheets - one for each stage to each shooter. That has worked fine until we got to the second gun. We had the scoresheets numbered in attempt to track this. However, people seemed to have gotten mixed up and put main gun scores on their rimfire scoresheets. What I think I will do is use a different color paper for 2nd guns. That should make it fairly easy.

Again, thanks for the help.

[Fireant]

Jack,
I have a score sheet that is on one page that I'll scan and send tou you (or post here), but it'll have to wait until Tuesday. Unless someone beats me to it.

[Jack Suber]

Fireant, on Jun 23 2008, 10:52 AM, said:

Jack,
I have a score sheet that is on one page that I'll scan and send tou you (or post here), but it'll have to wait until Tuesday. Unless someone beats me to it.

Roger,

That would be great if you could email it to me. Thanks.

[David Olhasso]

1. Use one scoresheet per gun, per shooter. List all stages on the same scoresheet.
2. Allow multiple guns (to a point), but don't let them shoot back to back. Generally we have all shooters shoot once before any second (or third) guns are allowed.
3. Use a specialized scoring program to make your life much easier (www.olhasso.com/WCSS)

This post has been edited by David Olhasso: 24 June 2008 - 06:48 AM

[LChico]

David Olhasso, on Jun 24 2008, 09:47 AM, said:

1. Use one scoresheet per gun, per shooter. List all stages on the same scoresheet.
2. Allow multiple guns (to a point), but don't let them shoot back to back. Generally we have all shooters shoot once before any second (or third) guns are allowed.
3. Use a specialized scoring program to make your life much easier (www.olhasso.com/WCSS)

Actually, we will be using the WCSS scoring program as soon as the author of the software gets me the key

And Jack, all the scores per shooter on one sheet will work fine at the matches I cannot get to, and that need to be scored after the match, but they would be a serious handicap if I am there to score the match. I couldn't start until everyone was done. I am much more interested in the "all shooters on the squad on one sheet." That will work best if I am there or not.

Linda Chico (L-2035)
Columbia SC

This post has been edited by LChico: 24 June 2008 - 09:02 PM

[Jack Suber]

LChico, on Jun 24 2008, 12:29 PM, said:

I am much more interested on the "all shooters on the squad on one sheet." That will work best if I am there or not.

Linda Chico (L-2035)
Columbia SC

Linda,

I am thinking along the same line here. I think this would be the quickest and easiest method for the type of match we run. Hopefully, someone will share a template with me?

[Dave Wilson]

Jack Suber, on Jun 21 2008, 07:41 PM, said:

Questions:

1. At your monthly SC matches, do you allow shooters to shoot multiple guns? I have allowed people to shoot a main gun and then a rimfire (as a second gun). Today, I people were asking if they could shoot 3 guns (Optics, Iron, and the Rimfire). I am wondering if that is too much to handle on a monthly match? Do any other clubs allow this?

We allow 2 guns and we have them shot back to back, it seemed faster to have them bring up both guns to the line and shoot both. Most shoot a rimfire after a centerfire.

Quote

2. We are running 5 stages and are finishing in about 3 hours ( with 40 shooters). Is that reasonable time wise?

Well, we run about 20-30 shooters through 8 stages in about 3.5-4.5 hours, but there is a LOT of BSing

Quote

3. I have created my scoresheet, one for each stage for each gun. Its OK, but is a lot of paper to keep track of, especially when you have people shooting multiple guns. What are your scoresheets like? Do you have a template for your monthly matches that you would be willing to share?

I don't have a copy of ours, but it is one sheet with all the stages on it, including misses and procedurals for each stage.

Quote

4. If you do let people shoot multiple guns, do you let them shoot back-to-back? Today, we had a squad that let people shoot their second gun immediately following their main gun. Another squad made the shooter shoot one gun, then wait a few shooters to shoot their 2nd gun. There did not seem to be much of a difference in time for each squad finishing a stage. I am curious how other clubs handle this - mainly wanting to make sure we are as efficient as we can be.

It seems to be important as stated above to make sure you count total guns in a squad and not just shooters. We have 8 shooting bays, each with one SC stage. We stagger the squads out over the entire range. If you have one big squad with a lot of multi gun competitors and a small squad behind them, it tends to cause a traffic jam by the end of the match. We did allow squads to jump around the slow squads, but have since stoppped that as there seemed to be more confusion. I know there is only 8 stages, and it SHOULD be easy, but I know I have trouble counting 9 shots in a revo sometimes

Hope this helps,

Dave Wilson


http://slosa.org/steel/index.htm

[slidelock1]

Our club has been shooting Steel Challenge for several years. We allow our members to shoot a centerfire and a rimfire if they want. If they chose to do so, we use two scoring sheets, one for each gun. We break our shooters into two (or three) squads, and usually we all shoot centerfire first all the way through the squad. Then, those that signed-up for rimfire shoot rimfire. It does take a few hours to get through all the shooters, but none of us would have it any other way. BTW, we shoot ALL eight stages of the Steel Challenge.

Hope this helps.