19 replies to this topic

[JPT]

I am looking into both of these guns (and also the Sig 226 Elite). It seems that the Beretta just is not terribly popular, based on my reading this and other forums. Can anyone who has shot any or all of these three give me some insight. I am looking for a non-polymer gun to be used by a newbie in production. I love the looks of the Sig and my father carried one as a fed and loved it, but i can't figure out why it costs twice the price of the others. Thanks for any help.

[ken hebert]

For ergos and a new shooter, I'd go with the CZ, hands down. Also more aftermarket stuff for them. Contact Angus Hobdell at Ghost Holster or Matt Mink and get set up from/by them.

[eerw]

My favorite of the three is the CZ.. it sits a little lower in the hand, fits my small hands well..

the Beretta is big in my hands..that first DA pull is difficult, but after that..its pretty good..I don't like the basic 92FS..as you cannot change out the front sight..unless you mill it.

the Sig, I think..has a higher bore axis..other than that it shoots well..

all three are good..we have a GM and M production shooters..that shoot them..and I can hold my own with my CZ..

[oddjob]

I've shot all three and have to agree with the choice of a CZ75. Get one tuned by Matt Mink or Angus and you are set for a long time. My CZ SP-01's were tuned by Matt Mink.

[kz45]

CZ 75 thats the way to go

[eerw]

Angus and Matt will set you up a great gun..

if you choose the SIG..send it to Grayguns..
if you choose the Beretta..I think Olhasso will still set them up

[revchuck]

I agree with the recommendation of the CZ-75B, but if you can find a Beretta Elite or Brigadier (and it fits your hand) you'd be in really good shape too. You can replace the front sight on the Elite and the Brigadier, and the Elite comes with a better trigger.

I've got a Brigadier, and prefer it to my CZ for Production and IDPA SSP. I'm 6'2" and have average hands for my height; if you've got smaller hands, go with the CZ.

[JPT]

I am 6'7" and I have a really big hand.

I agree with the recommendation of the CZ-75B, but if you can find a Beretta Elite or Brigadier (and it fits your hand) you'd be in really good shape too. You can replace the front sight on the Elite and the Brigadier, and the Elite comes with a better trigger.

I've got a Brigadier, and prefer it to my CZ for Production and IDPA SSP. I'm 6'2" and have average hands for my height; if you've got smaller hands, go with the CZ.

[ChuckS]

I am 6'7" and I have a really big hand.

I agree with the recommendation of the CZ-75B, but if you can find a Beretta Elite or Brigadier (and it fits your hand) you'd be in really good shape too. You can replace the front sight on the Elite and the Brigadier, and the Elite comes with a better trigger.

I've got a Brigadier, and prefer it to my CZ for Production and IDPA SSP. I'm 6'2" and have average hands for my height; if you've got smaller hands, go with the CZ.

I am 6"4" with big hands and I like the fit of the SP-01 way better than any Beretta that I have ever tried. And Angus set it up with about 6.75# DA and 2# SA trigger. Sweet.

Later,
Chuck

PS: Never had much SIG trigger time so dunno about that.

[konkapot]

I've shot the Sig and Beretta quite a bit; for a guy with big hands, I would echo the suggestion that you get a Beretta Brigadier/Elite that has a dovetail sight.

Berettas are quite a bit cheaper than Sigs, and do sit lower in your hands.

On a stage that starts with an unloaded gun, I found that on occasion I would activate the Beretta safety while loading the gun. This did nothing to help my times.

On my Sig I had no such problems, but did find that the decocker would get intermittently get depressed by my support hand, giving me light strikes. This also did not help me time-wise. A dremel solved THAT problem, but I must now shoot the gun in L10.

I have minimal experience with the CZ pistols.

Pick one and shoot the snot out of it.

FY42385

[DonT]

I have a Beretta 96FS that I use for production and I love it but, if I didn't already have it, I would get the CZ. There are just so many parts and gear and guy's to work on them available unlike the Beretta.

edited to add; you're also stuck with the front sight on the 92FS but you can change out on the Brigadier Elite.

Edited by DonT, 13 June 2008 - 07:25 PM.

[Jeff686]

Tanfoglio Elite Limited

Henning Shoots Guns

[Beretta Lover]

well Im not too objective, but I have shot all three in IDPA and the Beretta in USPSA a little. I do love Berettas.

Scratch the SIG, the slide stop is in a bad position and with a high hand grip you will never get the slide to lock back (only important for IDPA) probably the least supported of the three when it comes to trick parts. This is the least encountered of the three by far (there aint a lot of Berettas left out there either.

The CZs are getting super popular and can be made into very nice production guns, the first round DA trigger pul can be made especially nice

I know Angus and Matt and Max Michel all shoot CZs but these guys have an unlimited supply of parts and tech support.

I know of at least one person who ran a CZ for a while (and well) who gave up on it because of continued parts breakage.

This is the same reason I quit the XD. Again, there are people with access to several guns and parts who shoot the XD exclusively. Their gun wear would be less than mine because they have mutiple platforms to run.

All guns will have parts break eventually, If this wont hurt your feelings, get an Angus gun and get an extra slide stop and a few other parts that breeak after awhile. The CZ can also take a .22 kit for low cost training. For what they cost all tricked out they are a real real value.

I have shot and own several Berettas, the Beretta in my opinion is less prone to parts breakage and parts are very available. However I'm really deep into the whole Beretta set up (kits, tools, parts, etc) and economically I decided to run the Beretta (again) I have considered the CZ though. There are some really really good shooters with Berettas, like Ben Stoeger. The real downside to me with the 92 is the front sight deal, and yes you have to get an elite or brigadier to mount other fronts, and yes they are no longer made (they are out there) and yes it is a PITA to find one and buy it and ship it.

Having said all this, your better off with a glock if it wil fit your hands. PS I shoot a 1911 now.

[davidwiz]

From talking to people who used to shoot the Beretta in Production, they aren't anymore b/c Beretta dropped their competition-versions of the 92, plus there are not a lot of aftermarket parts available.

My hands are pretty large, and the SP01 fits my hand the best, compared to a Sig P226 or a S&W MP. A Glock doesn't fit my hand well and I can't shoot it at all. I would suggest doing as I did, try them all out and see what works best for you. The trigger on each feels different, and the way it sits in your hand is going to be different. I personally like the SPO1 trigger the best (compared to a Sig 226, Beretta 92, and S&W MP). I'm sure that there are people around you who have each of the guns you are interested in and would let you try them at the next local match.

[spd522]

You can probably tell I am a bit biased. But I carried SIGs in LE for years and learned the strong points (reliability, accuracy, reload speed) and weak points ( higher bore axis and heavy but smooth DA trigger). I even started shooting USPSA with a 9mm P226 when all that existed was Open and Limited classes. I shot it in both.

The price difference was an issue in '89 when you could buy Glocks for $300, Berettas for $425, S&W for $450. and $600 for a SIG or HK. When we went to the range and set up malfunction drills, I knew why the SIG cost more. It always worked.

The SIG will be the most accurate if precision is your goal. But for USPSA competition it's a wash between the three as that kind of accuracy isn't needed. Decent sights are available for SIGs but not to the extent of others such as the Glock, XD, or M&P. In 20 years of shooting SIGs, I have only replaced the recoil spring and hammer reset spring due to breakage. I updated mine to the newer style firing pin and spring and put new roll pins in the slide as required. This is a SIG recommended maintenance item anyway.

The Beretta will also be an extremely durable and reliable pistol, although in stock form has a long and gritty trigger. Sights are pretty limited but can be fitted. I personally have been bit or cut by the sharp open slide design too many times when racking the slide to have one as my competition or defensive pistol. The 92 used to have problems with the locking block cracking but that issue was resolved years ago.

The CZ has the most going for it in the line of options and accessories. Every one I have shot has a cruddy trigger out of the box. But as mentioned, Matthew or Angus can make it sweet. And the CZ is light, fast, and sits low in the hand.
The downside is there are lots of little parts that wear or break eventually. In normal shooting, it would seldom come up but in heavy competition use, it may. However shooting minor 9mm, it would probably take a long time. CZ has strong factory support for it's shooters also. And they contribute a lot to the sport in the way of sponsorships and prize tables.

Again, I got the X5 All Around mostly because I love SIGs and the wife let me. But for half the money, you can have a tricked out CZ and spend the rest on ammo. My vote would be for the CZ.

Edited by spd522, 28 June 2008 - 03:02 PM.

[spd522]

I've shot the Sig and Beretta quite a bit; for a guy with big hands, I would echo the suggestion that you get a Beretta Brigadier/Elite that has a dovetail sight.

Berettas are quite a bit cheaper than Sigs, and do sit lower in your hands.

On a stage that starts with an unloaded gun, I found that on occasion I would activate the Beretta safety while loading the gun. This did nothing to help my times.

On my Sig I had no such problems, but did find that the decocker would get intermittently get depressed by my support hand, giving me light strikes. This also did not help me time-wise. A dremel solved THAT problem, but I must now shoot the gun in L10.

I have minimal experience with the CZ pistols.

Pick one and shoot the snot out of it.

FY42385

The decocker and slide release on my X5 All Around stick out instead of being almost flush with the grips like my older P226 and P220. This prevents the problem of support hand getting in the way. I personally like the old flatter version better but I never had the problem you mentioned either.

You may be able to order the newer lever and switch it out. May solve your problem and let you stay in Production.

Craig

[rvbgtr]

I'm relatively new to USPSA, but started using P226 in production, very accurate and never had a malfuction attributable to the pistol. But I was not really happy with the grip size, had to shift grip to get to mag release. Not too many options for thinner grips, but the new Hogue Extremes are reportedly thinner than factory, so that might have helped me out. Recently I transitioned to a CZ SP-01 and I'm very happy with it. Try out all three and see what works for you.

[JPT]

well Im not too objective, but I have shot all three in IDPA and the Beretta in USPSA a little. I do love Berettas.

Scratch the SIG, the slide stop is in a bad position and with a high hand grip you will never get the slide to lock back (only important for IDPA) probably the least supported of the three when it comes to trick parts. This is the least encountered of the three by far (there aint a lot of Berettas left out there either.

The CZs are getting super popular and can be made into very nice production guns, the first round DA trigger pul can be made especially nice

I know Angus and Matt and Max Michel all shoot CZs but these guys have an unlimited supply of parts and tech support.

I know of at least one person who ran a CZ for a while (and well) who gave up on it because of continued parts breakage.

This is the same reason I quit the XD. Again, there are people with access to several guns and parts who shoot the XD exclusively. Their gun wear would be less than mine because they have mutiple platforms to run.

All guns will have parts break eventually, If this wont hurt your feelings, get an Angus gun and get an extra slide stop and a few other parts that breeak after awhile. The CZ can also take a .22 kit for low cost training. For what they cost all tricked out they are a real real value.

I have shot and own several Berettas, the Beretta in my opinion is less prone to parts breakage and parts are very available. However I'm really deep into the whole Beretta set up (kits, tools, parts, etc) and economically I decided to run the Beretta (again) I have considered the CZ though. There are some really really good shooters with Berettas, like Ben Stoeger. The real downside to me with the 92 is the front sight deal, and yes you have to get an elite or brigadier to mount other fronts, and yes they are no longer made (they are out there) and yes it is a PITA to find one and buy it and ship it.

Having said all this, your better off with a glock if it wil fit your hands. PS I shoot a 1911 now.

Thanks for all the replies. As it turned out. I scored a Beretta Brigadier which i will be shooting in my first match tomorrow. I shot it at the range a few times so far. And i love it. It feels like it was made for my hand, and it seems infinitely smoother than the other guns I tried (Glock 17, M&P 9, XD 9).

I'll keep an eye out for the other to try out sometime.

John

[revchuck]

John - Best of luck with the Brigadier!

[Beretta Lover]

well Im not too objective, but I have shot all three in IDPA and the Beretta in USPSA a little. I do love Berettas.

Scratch the SIG, the slide stop is in a bad position and with a high hand grip you will never get the slide to lock back (only important for IDPA) probably the least supported of the three when it comes to trick parts. This is the least encountered of the three by far (there aint a lot of Berettas left out there either.

The CZs are getting super popular and can be made into very nice production guns, the first round DA trigger pul can be made especially nice

I know Angus and Matt and Max Michel all shoot CZs but these guys have an unlimited supply of parts and tech support.

I know of at least one person who ran a CZ for a while (and well) who gave up on it because of continued parts breakage.

This is the same reason I quit the XD. Again, there are people with access to several guns and parts who shoot the XD exclusively. Their gun wear would be less than mine because they have mutiple platforms to run.

All guns will have parts break eventually, If this wont hurt your feelings, get an Angus gun and get an extra slide stop and a few other parts that breeak after awhile. The CZ can also take a .22 kit for low cost training. For what they cost all tricked out they are a real real value.

I have shot and own several Berettas, the Beretta in my opinion is less prone to parts breakage and parts are very available. However I'm really deep into the whole Beretta set up (kits, tools, parts, etc) and economically I decided to run the Beretta (again) I have considered the CZ though. There are some really really good shooters with Berettas, like Ben Stoeger. The real downside to me with the 92 is the front sight deal, and yes you have to get an elite or brigadier to mount other fronts, and yes they are no longer made (they are out there) and yes it is a PITA to find one and buy it and ship it.

Having said all this, your better off with a glock if it wil fit your hands. PS I shoot a 1911 now.

Thanks for all the replies. As it turned out. I scored a Beretta Brigadier which i will be shooting in my first match tomorrow. I shot it at the range a few times so far. And i love it. It feels like it was made for my hand, and it seems infinitely smoother than the other guns I tried (Glock 17, M&P 9, XD 9).

I'll keep an eye out for the other to try out sometime.

John

If you really want to see some excellent Beretta shooting look up Ben Stoeger's web site.

I have done 7 action (trigger) jobs on the 92 series myself and I can tell you that if you will practice and dry fire frequently you will be at no disadvantage shooting a Beretta. I shoot a 1911 now (but not really exclusively).

Sub 3 second bill drills and a zone hits less than 1.3 (which I think is quick) from the holster are very doable.

David Olhasso sells a bunch of cool parts and does gun work on Berettas as well. There are great resources (DVDs) etc for do it yourself gunsmithing and there are lots of part out there if you look a little.

I have fired 998 skunky lead reloads through mine with no cleaning with zero malfuncations (then it got sticky).

enjoy your new blaster