[Flyin40]

(Note: split topic from another thread)

The Indiana match just had a stage like this. I think most skipped the drop turner though some that shot the DT placed high also. There is some video in the Gallery of the Indiana State match. Heres the link

Flyin


Stage 4

This post has been edited by Flexmoney: 12 June 2008 - 06:57 AM

[Flexmoney]

Flyin40, on Jun 11 2008, 07:43 PM, said:

The Indiana match just had a stage like this. I think most skipped the drop turner though some that shot the DT placed high also. There is some video in the Gallery of the Indiana State match. Heres the link

Flyin


Stage 4

Anybody gonna do the math...or just wonder???

[Flyin40]

Flexmoney, on Jun 11 2008, 05:23 PM, said:

Flyin40, on Jun 11 2008, 07:43 PM, said:

The Indiana match just had a stage like this. I think most skipped the drop turner though some that shot the DT placed high also. There is some video in the Gallery of the Indiana State match. Heres the link

Flyin


Stage 4

Anybody gonna do the math...or just wonder???

I will.......eventually get to it.


Flyin

[rtr]

FWIW On "Bowling for Victory in Vigo County" I counted approximately 3 seconds from activation of the steel until activation of the first turning target, and 2 more seconds until the next turning target.

[Flexmoney]

I think you must count slower than I do. (maybe we should start a new thread on this stage)

[AikiDale]

Is that you in the first run on that video Flex? Did you take the activator with the first shot or the fifth? Or the fourth? I can't tell from the video. It also looks like about 1 second from the ball hitting the first DT switch to the 2nd.

[Flexmoney]

Yeah, that is me as the first shooter (wearing a red Ohio State hat).

I believe I took the activator on shot 4. Shot 5 would hve been a make-up on a poopie popper.

[AikiDale]

Speaking of doing the maths. It really would make a difference which division one shot whether to take the DT or not I would think. There were 4 poppers, 4 static paper and 2 DT paper before you hit the stairs to enter the hallway. A limited or open shooter can make all those shots and not have to stop and wait for a standing reload/DT.

[Flexmoney]

It does make a difference, not so much with the math though.
(Actually, in this particular case...it makes a difference.*)

Key factors in the raw math:

- The shooter's personal (likely) hit factor.
- The (likely) points to be gained/lost.
- If the shooter can beat the "break-even time" that is figured from the factors above.


*There were 12 shots without the DT's, and 16 shots with. So, Production, L-10, SS and REV were factoring in reloads.

[Caspian_45]

I shot SS and I had to make a load anyway. I shot the activator popper last then went to the two statics. My load wasn't fast and I waited just a tic on the DT. After the the first DT I took the two statics next and finished off the mag on the second DT. Loaded again on the way to the door.

I say there was time to take all the DT's. If you left them you lost points as far as I could see. How you shoot the targets will time the DT's a little different for everyone.

I watched Matt shoot it (very good I might ad) saturday afternoon. He left the DT's and pulled a 7.5 HF. Thats 7.5 points per second. For the 20 points I think stickin' around for a couple seconds is worth it. I pulled a 5.8 HF and I messed up the back section. Standing load and I engaged the same target twice. It was my last stage and I think I was gettin' a little hot and dehydrated about then.

YMMV

[Matt Cheely]

IMO, the first DT was a total trap. Depending on your ability level, the 2nd was a possibility. * In Limited and Open.

When looking at the stage in the morning, I figured it at 18 seconds with a 7.8 HF. At that rate you would have to spend no more than a bit over 2 seconds and get all A's on the DT's. With the speed of their activation (or lack there of) I thought I could shoot the whole array much smoother and faster by skipping them.

This post has been edited by Matt Cheely: 12 June 2008 - 02:14 PM

[Chris Keen]

I too was shooting Limited, and following in Matt's footsteps ... (literally, I was only 1 squad behind him) I planned to skip the turners. But with a make-up shot on one of the poppers, and a stutter-step to the static targets I ended up skipping the 1st DT and taking the 2nd one, picking up 9 points. It was right there when I finished up on the last static target, to the point that I could not ignore it. There was no waiting, on #2, which may indicate my lack of speed to start out the match (this was my 2nd stage of the match). Matt had a flawless run on his 1st stage of the match

If I hadn't had a make-up shot on the steel, I most certainly would had left both Drop Turners. And I definitely would not wear a red Ohio State hat.

[AikiDale]

Matt Cheely, on Jun 12 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

IMO, the first DT was a total trap. Depending on your ability level, the 2nd was a possibility. * In Limited and Open.

When looking at the stage in the morning, I figured it at 18 seconds with a 7.8 HF. At that rate you would have to spend no more than a bit over 2 seconds and get all A's on the DT's. With the speed of their activation (or lack there of) I thought I could shoot the whole array much smoother and faster by skipping them.

That's pretty good figuring:

Matt shot it in 17.40 with 132 points for a HF of 7.5862

[Flexmoney]

At an 18pt gain, it was about 2.4 second to break-even for Matt.

[tpcdvc]

Even with a make up shot on the steel the drop turners were not ready. My plan was to not take them but because I missed one of the steel I thought they might be ready for me but they were not. The hesitation probably cost me a second.

The stage needed two pieces of paper with the steel to make the DTs relevant. It was still a great stage though and I love the activator!!

[pinger]

does anyone have the stage diagram for this stage?

[davidball]

pinger, on Jun 14 2008, 12:24 PM, said:

does anyone have the stage diagram for this stage?

http://www.wvpps.com...8Stage04prt.htm

[steel1212]

davidball, on Jun 14 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

pinger, on Jun 14 2008, 12:24 PM, said:

does anyone have the stage diagram for this stage?

http://www.wvpps.com...8Stage04prt.htm

I shot the activator steel first, and never saw a DT period and I sure as hell wasn't going to wait on them. Yeah my time sucked on the stage but I was rolling until the last 2 targets and a death jam via shooter error.
http://s300.photobuc...Coreystage4.flv

want2race shot it like this http://s300.photobuc...Shaunstage4.flv

And I was so amazed I failed to keep up BUT shooting SS he shot 4 steel, 2 paper, reload, DT, DT, 2 paper....if I'm wrong he may be along to correct me and if he doesn't then I'm right

This post has been edited by steel1212: 15 June 2008 - 04:26 PM

[chuckbradley]

2008 IN_Section_and_State_Pistol_Match - Stage 4 Bowling for Victory in Vigo Co

Place Name No. Class Division Points Penalties Time Hit Factor Stage Pts Stage %
1 Matt C. 237 GM Limited 132 0 17.40 7.5862 160.0000 100.00%
2 Chuck B. 204 GM Limited 149 0 22.79 6.5380 137.8925 86.18%


I took the DT's. Shot the activator first, 3 steel, 2 static targets 1st drop turner. By this time the ball was moving so the second drop turner was next then the other 2 static. I think it was a good choice for me. Matt is fast enough his choice was good for him. Even if I skipped th drop turned he would have beat me by 3 seconds if not more. So its probably a wash. with Matts hit factor of 7.5 , each second was worth 7.5 points. If you could shoot them in under 2.5 seconds it was a good choice to shoot them.

[Houngan]

For the 10 rounders, it made sense to go activator-3steel-two static-reload while moving to midwall-DT-2static-DT. Shooting the activator first would have put me up against the reload and I would have likely missed the first DT. As it was, I was constantly shooting or reloading, so it was the right plan for me.

H.

[tpcdvc]

chuckbradley, on Jun 15 2008, 05:04 PM, said:

2008 IN_Section_and_State_Pistol_Match - Stage 4 Bowling for Victory in Vigo Co

Place Name No. Class Division Points Penalties Time Hit Factor Stage Pts Stage %
1 Matt C. 237 GM Limited 132 0 17.40 7.5862 160.0000 100.00%
2 Chuck B. 204 GM Limited 149 0 22.79 6.5380 137.8925 86.18%


I took the DT's. Shot the activator first, 3 steel, 2 static targets 1st drop turner. By this time the ball was moving so the second drop turner was next then the other 2 static. I think it was a good choice for me. Matt is fast enough his choice was good for him. Even if I skipped th drop turned he would have beat me by 3 seconds if not more. So its probably a wash. with Matts hit factor of 7.5 , each second was worth 7.5 points. If you could shoot them in under 2.5 seconds it was a good choice to shoot them.

Great shooting on that stage Chuck!

After I shot the stage I was thinking if I shot this again I might try putting two on the activator... shoot the rest of the steel and then run to the sweet spot and take the 4 static targets and then the first DT (if it's there) and blow off the second DT. I would love to know how that would turn out. Did anyone try that??

[steel1212]

Chuck would have had to run that stage 3 seconds faster to beat Matt on it. At 160 points and 22.79 it wouldn't have done it. By looking at the points and times it looks like the guys around 22.5 took the DT and those where the fast guys. Mostly it looks like 25 and up took the DT.

You would have to run that stage in 21 seconds clean to beat Matt taking the DTers and Chuck and Matt didn't run it clean and those guys are GOOOOD! Chuck dropped 11 taking the activators and Matt dropped 8 of what he shot at. So if you use the 11 points Chuck dropped you could only be 19.6 seconds on the stage taking the DT, dropping 11 to win the stage. Nobody other than Matt got below 20.6 and that guy only got 125 points on that stage.

I think it wasn't worth it to take the DTers if you had a solid run in the hallway shooting limited or open.

This post has been edited by steel1212: 16 June 2008 - 02:18 PM

[Chris Keen]

Tomatoe ...... tomato. It's all relative to your skill set, and how well you shot the first 3 arrays of targets. Good shooters overcome and adapt. I had a make-up shot on the 4 poppers, and a shaky start on the next two arrays, but finished up just fine.

It's all in what you make of it.

[Matt Cheely]

It would have been fun to shoot it again and take 1 DT, and with 2 DT's. See what the difference really would have been.

[Blueridge]

As a revolver shooter, I would have to plan on leaving the DTs. Engaging the steel then waiting for DT1 seems a waste of time, and I don't think that I could make the reload swiftly enough to pick up DT1 after. I just cannot see a pattern that would work for me with engaging the DTs.