[Revopop]

So today I shot a match, 5 stages, and on 3 I didn't engage a target. The first was just a simple mental lapse on my part, didn't engage one target and engaged another target twice. The other two were designed to make you miss some. Both were essentially a forest of barrels, with targets in between that could only be seen if you were in just the right spot. One was 26 rounds, the other 40(!) rounds, and on both of them I didn't engage a target. To further complicate things, it was raining so there were clear garbage bags on all the targets, making it all but impossible to see if you'd already shot a target.

How the hell do I keep track of where I've been already and where I haven't? On the targets I actually shot, I did well, was able to call my shots and get my hits, but none of that matters if you piss away all your work with procedurals and Mikes. This is not the first time I've had this problem, so I thought I'd call in some advice from you guys.

[RePete]

Funny, I did that on stage 3 Saturday.

Came around fired on 2 targets, performed a reload while moving and totally didn't see a pair of targets - OOPS!

Oh well, there is the next match.

[Paul Burtchell]

Jared, I can't be of any help on this one, but I'm sure going to read the other folks responses.
I have "skipped" one target on one stage in my last two consecutive matches. Even worse is that I can't analyze why.
I'm right there with you. Good question and I hope some others can help.

[SDM]

Add me to the list of folks who struggle with this. I really have a problem during the walkthrough with these stages. I can't keep track of which targets I need to shoot and which ones will have already been engaged from earlier positions. "There's one...no wait...I got it from back there..." I've been tempted to just remember my positions, and shoot everything visible from each one and if a target has 4 or 6 hits then so be it. I'm guessing that isn't the way to do it though.

[dajarrel]

This is a problem I fight as well. What I try to do now is to pick a few positions, 3 or 4 or more if need be, and go to those positions and shoot all the targets I see. Usually I can find the spots I need to see all of the targets. And yes, I do occasionally miss one or shoot one twice.
But the idea is to find the shooting spots that afford you the best view of the targets and blaze away.

works for me.....sometimes

dj

[Jake Di Vita]

Here's a secret....On memory stages, before you finalize your plan, double check it from behind the stage.

[Genghis]

"My name is Genghis and I am an amnesiac."

Memory stages sometimes give me trouble, too. At Area 4 a few years ago I shot one stage and failed to engage four targets. Someone "forgot to write my time down" and I reshot it, and again failed to engage a couple of targets. I got a third reshoot for the same reason and ended up with 2 FTE's.

Since then I've tried a number of things to solve the problem. First, I make sure I tape, so I see all the targets from all the angles.

Second, I try to break the targets down into arrays or groups, then remember the arrays. For instance, on Saturday there was a stage with a shoot house, and you start by taking four targets from the starting position, run into the house and go right to shoot five more, go left and shoot five more then take one to the right from the same position, then open the back door and take the last three (2 steel, 34 rounds). So instead of having to remember each individual target, you have to remember, "Four, into house, right five, left five then 1, door, three."

Finally, I run through the Conga Line as many times as possible, so I have the program burned into my brain. I could draw the stage diagram from memory, so I guess something worked.

Doesn't always work, but I do a lot better now than I did then. "No plan survives the initial contact with the buzzer."

[Johann the Horrible]

I used to do this a lot. The -40 you earn for that specific stupidity irritated me into spending as much time as possible in the "conga line". At big shoots I get the WSB as early as possible. I make a full study of it trying to decide where my reloads are going to be and what target will be shot from where. When I get to the range, and I try and be there for the pre-shoot, I study the ranges further but without actually walking the stages as this is not allowed under the rules. After working out my "game-plan" I try and run it through my mind several times until I get it perfect. Two shooters before I shoot I double plug and get into the "zone", I visualize getting 2 Alphas on every single target, running while keeping my finger clear of the gun, never mind the trigger guard. And yes I count every shot I fire and start at one every time I do a mag change, I know that I get to 9 before I move so if I am ready to move at 4 or 6 I am missing something. Before I step on the line I know from where I will engage every single target and how the target will look through my sights.

I do wish we could be granted longer than 5 minutes walk-through, if only for us lower life forms. The LAST thing I want to here after "attempting" a course is: "IF and I say again IF you are finished....."

Designers of lower level shoots can make it so much easier for us if they stick to the 9 shot rule while designing and setting up a range.

[Revopop]

SDM, on Jun 9 2008, 08:35 AM, said:

Add me to the list of folks who struggle with this. I really have a problem during the walkthrough with these stages. I can't keep track of which targets I need to shoot and which ones will have already been engaged from earlier positions. "There's one...no wait...I got it from back there..." I've been tempted to just remember my positions, and shoot everything visible from each one and if a target has 4 or 6 hits then so be it. I'm guessing that isn't the way to do it though.

Yeah, the walkthrough issue you describe is exactly the same problem I have. I get a few steps into the walkthrough, and I can't keep track of where I've already been. On our squad, the first guy (I think he was the 5th or 6th shooter) to actually engage all the targets on the 40 round stage was a relative novice who slowly walked through the whole firing zone and just shot everything he could see. He was actually faster than some others who burned through the stage only to head backwards to try and find where they should have used the 2 rounds too many they still had left.

I think part of my problem is that at this club, the stages are set up right before the match and they're often made up on the fly. I like that this gives us really unique, fun stages, but this is also how we sometimes end up with 40 round amnesia stages. At the club I used to shoot at, there wasn't really room at the range for big stages like that, and there were diagrams of all the stages posted at the range beforehand. I have a much easier time remembering where everything is if I can see it mapped out.

[geezer-lock]

Jake Di Vita, on Jun 9 2008, 03:01 PM, said:

Here's a secret....On memory stages, before you finalize your plan, double check it from behind the stage.

To Jake's advice add this from Steve Anderson's book: DRAW the stage layout and show the firing points and reloading points.

From Master Jamie: It is all about where your feet are. Find those points and rehearse getting there.

These three tips have saved my bacon several times this year.

David C

This post has been edited by geezer-lock: 11 June 2008 - 10:19 AM

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

To Jake's advice add this from Steve Anderson's book: DRAW the stage layout and show the firing points and reloading points.

Excellent advice! I'm actually pretty good at memory stages. I remember a few years ago there was this one stage at an IDPA match that was actually fairly complex. Everyone else on the stage took one look at it and said, "Okay, Duane's shooting this one first." Even though that wasn't my position in the stack, I said, "Sure, I'll shoot it first, I don't care." Looked it over for a few minutes, closed my eyes, visualized, and then just did it. People were VERY impressed I was able to get through that stage, as fast as I did, with no mistakes. BTW, this was not a scenario stage with targets behind walls so you couldn't see them first, thus no walkthrough could be a serious problem. You could see all the targets, the only cover was barrels behind which you had to use low cover. Really, though technically it was a scenario, in reality it was more of a standards stage, just with a fairly complex target layout.

The key, I find, is visualization. Close your eyes, see yourself running the stage. You can use one of two approaches here. Either see yourself from outside your body, like watching a video of yourself shooting, or you can do a POV approach where you see everything you need to see as if you were inside your own body, looking out through your eyes, seeing everything you need to see as you run the stage. If time permits, I'll do both.

Then, as you step up to the line for LAMR, clear your mind. The temptation at this point will be to hold what you've just visualized in your mind, then play the tape as you're running the stage. Unfortunately this is a sure prescription for a crappy run, you'll be slow, and almost guaranteed to forget a target, because the conscious mind is just not that good at this sort of thing. Instead, just clear your mind, have faith in the subconscious mind, and you'll be amazed at how easily, smoothly and flawlessly your "tape" plays out.

[Flexmoney]

Use Steve's tool (hehe):


STAGE ANALYSIS AND OWNERSHIP PLAN

The Stage Analysis and Ownership Plan is a tool I developed to overcome a weakness I found in my shooting: Memory Stages. We have all seen stages that show the same targets from multiple vantage points, making it difficult to know which targets have already been engaged. It is also possible to skip targets altogether in this kind of stage...

http://andersonshoot...nalysistool.htm

[Nik Habicht]

I'll add my tip in too: Often these stages make no sense from the start position, but if broken down from the point to which you must advance to see the final target, heading backwards, they start to work....

Also --- at each position, attempt to identify not only those targets that must be shot there, but also any other targets that may be shot from there. That may help you if you're shooting one of the reduced capacity divisions....

[eerw]

On memory courses..I walk the stage forwards and backwards, inside and out. I try to get a visual in my head of all the targets and their overlap points..
then I walk the stage from the shooting points..trying in minimize the spots I am and plan where my feet go.

then you run it, run it, run it in your head. run it when you tape, and run it again. got to own the program..

[joecichlid]

*sighs* I have to confess I have done it too. on stages I have set up

Joe W.

[pinger]

I blame it on the buzzer. As soon as that thing goes off, it wipes out my memory completely.

This post has been edited by pinger: 14 June 2008 - 09:10 AM

[Pat Harrison]

Jake hit the nail on the head, go down range and find all the targets, then use them to look back and see where you can shoot/engage them from. It's easier to find the shooting positions from the targets than the other way around on a memory stage. Also, make sue when you go back up range that you count your total number of shots when walking the course. If you know its a 28 round course and you come up with 26 or 30, you've either missed one or shooting one from multiple places. Though even this is not foolproof if you shoot one target twice and miss another.Drawing it out is probably the best bet. A notepad should be a must have in anyones shooting bag.

[Jake Di Vita]

Walking behind the stage is also best when you have a partner in the free fire zone you can communicate with.

[Pat Harrison]

Lol...just don't call it a free fire zone when you are talking your friend into going back there