[Chris Keen]

Quote

Patience is the ability to persevere calmly when faced with difficulties.

That quote quickly reminded me of another thread started recently that relates to paying any attention to distractions while shooting.

So ... back to the question at hand. Are you a patient person ? And how can we use that information as it relates to our shooting ?

I for one, am NOT a patient person. I like my cars fast, my payroll direct-deposited, and my popcorn microwaved.  popcornEmoticon.gif (3.95K)
Number of downloads: 2 Maybe that's why I'd rather shoot Open & Limited divisions exclusively.

I recently went through something non-shooting related that was difficult for me, and it got me to thinking about my "shooting" patience. Perhaps I should refer to it as my visual patience, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think it applies to all aspects of our shooting.

• Are you patient enough to wait for an "acceptable sight picture" (to coin a phrase BE likes to use) on that far, partial target ? Knowing that you need TWO acceptable sight pictures on every target makes that far, partial just a little bit more important to call BOTH of those shots correctly. I got burned a couple of times at A8 on far shots. I had 2 Alpha / Mike situations. I feel that I was just being too impatient and rushing either the 1st or 2nd shot. Feeling the need to "have a fast time" on a stage got to me. I guess I have always been somewhat of a speed-demon when it comes to Practical Shooting, however far partial targets is not the time or place for that kind of shooting.

• What about being patient enough to wait for the proper grip on a draw or table-start? Have you ever caught yourself not getting the perfect grip during your draw, but then not taking the time to correct your grip while proceeding to shoot a 32 round field course? Wouldn't it be better to take the time necessary to get a good grip (even after a bad one), than it would be to hope all your shots make it on target?

• What about leaving a bad stage behind? When faced with anywhere from 9 - 12 stages at a major match, why let one bad stage ruin another? Patience here can be your best friend. It should be as if you are shooting a different match every time you "Load & Make Ready". (yeah I know the command changed, but I like the way it was better)

• Looking your reload into the magwell requires patience. I only remember reloading once during A8, and that's because I somehow bobbled that one. Is this a bad thing? I don't know. They say you should be able to pick your sight-picture out of a line-up if needed. Well I know what my magwell looks like alright, but I don't remember actually making those reloads during the stage. Was I focused on my plan, or was I distracted by "the shooting"???

I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject (both shooting & non-shooting related) while I go through my mind and try to figure out how to turn this into a positive thing for my shooting.

Awareness & Focus are wonderful, but I think patience plays a bigger part in shooting well.

This post has been edited by CHRIS KEEN: 28 May 2008 - 06:02 PM

[jasmap]

I'm only patient with my son so my answer is definitely no. I am impatient.

[tightloop]

CHRIS KEEN, on May 28 2008, 07:14 PM, said:

Quote

Patience is the ability to persevere calmly when faced with difficulties.

That quickly reminded me of another thread started recently that relates to paying any attention to distractions while shooting.

So ... back to the question at hand. Are you a patient person ? And how can we use that information as it relates to our shooting ?

I for one, am NOT a patient person. I like my cars fast, my payroll direct-deposited, and my popcorn microwaved. popcornEmoticon.gif Maybe that's why I'd rather shoot Open & Limited divisions exclusively.

I recently went through something non-shooting related that was difficult for me, and it got me to thinking about my "shooting" patience. Perhaps I should refer to it as my visual patience, but I think it goes deeper than that. I think it applies to all aspects of our shooting.

• Are you patient enough to wait for an "acceptable sight picture" (to coin a phrase BE likes to use) on that far, partial target ? Knowing that you need TWO acceptable sight pictures on every target makes that far, partial just a little bit more important to call BOTH of those shots correctly. I got burned a couple of times at A8 on far shots. I had 2 Alpha / Mike situations. I feel that I was just being too impatient and rushing either the 1st or 2nd shot. Feeling the need to "have a fast time" on a stage got to me. I guess I have always been somewhat of a speed-demon when it comes to Practical Shooting, however far partial targets is not the time or place for that kind of shooting.

• What about being patient enough to wait for the proper grip on a draw or table-start ? Have you ever caught yourself not getting the perfect grip during your draw, but then *not* taking the time to correct your grip while proceeding to shoot a 32 rounds field course ? Wouldn't it be better to take the time necessary to get a good grip (even after a bad one), than it would be to hope all your shots make it on target ?

• What about leaving a bad stage behind ? When faced with anywhere from 9 - 12 stages at a major match why would you let one bad stage ruin another ? Patience here can be your best friend. It should be as if you are shooting a different match every time you "Load & Make Ready". (yeah I know the command changed, but I like the way it was better)

• Looking your reload into the magwell requires patience. I only remember reloading once during A8, and that's because I somehow bobbled that one. Is this a bad thing? I don't know. They say you should be able to pick your sight-picture out of a line-up if needed. Well I know what my magwell looks like alright, but I don't remember actually making those reloads during the stage. Was I focused on my plan, or was I distracted by "the shooting" ???

I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject (both shooting & non-shooting related) while I go through my mind and try to figure out how to turn this into a positive thing for my shooting.

Awareness & Focus are wonderful, but I think patience plays a bigger part in shooting well.

Of course I'm patient...now get the hell on with the important stuff...

[Airedale]

I am incredibly patient.

Maybe that's why they put me on your squad for the In. Sectional

Dave

[Merlin Orr]

When the flag goes up I am usually so amped I can't remember my name.


Not good........

[J-Ho]

Damn long post. Get to the point a little quicker next time.



To answer your question. I'm VERY patient.

[Flexmoney]

I don't have time to read that long post.

[Chris Keen]

When Brian talks about how "... the only thing that matters is the shot you are taking right now ..." kinda stuff - can it also be said "that shot or sight picture need not be remembered after "it" occurs ?

Which would explain perhaps not remembering my reloads, but other than 1 they were all without problem. Which would explain not remembering them.

[Caspian_45]

"Patients my a$$, I'm goin' out and kill sumthin'" said one vulture to the other.

No I ain't patient at all

You do bring up a good point. I can see right now that I'm gonna have to start thinking about some of the things you mentioned.

[GentlemanJim]

I have lots of it for other people or kids....no so much for myself
Jim

[Chris Keen]

Are you patient enough to wait for the price of gas to come back down before you start selling off your gun collection one by one ???



I'm thinking 1 nice AR could buy me about 250 gallons of gas.

This post has been edited by CHRIS KEEN: 28 May 2008 - 06:54 PM

[nashvillebill]

I posted a similar response in a Zen thread recently. When I'm at my best I have almost no recallection of what I just did. I only snap to awareness if I screw up or if something else is not right (downed steel, stray animal whatever). Hopefully the practice and muscle memory takes over and my mind is available for unexpected input if needed.
As for patience, in a perfect world, it also turns on when needed. I try to index different spots in my awareness. Jump my hand to the draw, then touch the grip. At the moment the grip is felt, jump to the next index point, and so on. The more I practice the indexing takes less time and becomes automatic, the points that take more time to click into awareness get more practice. Five yard paper, they already have holes in them. Thirty yard head plate, exhale the front sight through it and feel the trigger.
This is how you learn to play a musical instrument. If every note requires concentration, concentrate on every note. In time you will only need to concentrate on having your hand in the right place when you change positions. Eventually you can play (or shoot) as you can breath or speak, knowing the outcome before you begin without thought.
Bad stage? Breath in slow, breath out slow, repeat as needed. Good stage? See the last answer. I have blown stages because I couldn't get the previous great stage out of my head.

[Chris Keen]

Nicely said Bill. Especially about playing music and how it corresponds to shooting.

[J-Ho]

GentlemanJim, on May 28 2008, 08:10 PM, said:

I have lots of it for other people or kids....no so much for myself
Jim

Wow, that hits it right on the nose for me.

[nashvillebill]

CHRIS KEEN, on May 28 2008, 05:58 PM, said:

When Brian talks about how "... the only thing that matters is the shot you are taking right now ..." kinda stuff - can it also be said "that shot or sight picture need not be remembered after "it" occurs ?

Which would explain perhaps not remembering my reloads, but other than 1 they were all without problem. Which would explain not remembering them.

I only remember scratching an itch if I have a ragged fingernail.

[AlamoShooter]

Patients can be a flaw ... Some times
I think my strongest asset is persistence. I am just not smart enough to give up.
But yes I can be patient.... and yes I can hit a 2" target at 50 yards

[wide45]

I am tremendously patient, sometimes stupidly patient. Oddly, it does not carry over to shooting.

[Paul Burtchell]

Patience is definitely not one of my strong points. I want it, yesterday.

[HSMITH]

I want it PERFECT and YESTERF*&$#NGDAY!!!!!!! That said, the more I allow things to take a little time to mature the better things go, and I can't think of a single example that doesn't apply. My shooting is worlds better when I wait for that 'acceptable sight picture' two times on each target, points are a full order of magnitude higher and the times are better too. Just need to get there all the time.....

[grandbagger]

patience is not my virtue.

[benos]

When your mind (awareness) is flowing smoothly along... You may not remember many things that you clearly saw.

Something you remember has to sort of "stick" in your mind before you can remember it.

In the learning or beginning phase - If you remember anything after shooting a stage - you'll notice that all you remember is fragments of what actually happened. With experience, as your seeing and shooting become more integrated, although your performance is improving, you may remember seeing less things specifically. But then at some point you may remember seeing everything.

I can't say how that happens. But it's pretty cool when it does. It may have something to do with a complete lack of trying anything whatsoever.

-------------------------------------------------------------

On patience, I would say I'm an extremely patient person. (I always say I got that from my daddy. But since I was adopted - and to me patience comes along with your temperament - it's hard to say for sure.) But - since I'm an efficiency FREAK and tend to do EVERYTHING as quickly and efficiently as possible - I wonder if patience and "doing things quickly" are related. Good topic... I'm still wondering...
be

[benos]

Still wondering... Perhaps being a patient person by nature helps or even allows you to bring the quality of patience into an activity, when you realize it is necessary for your best performance.

My girlfriend, Paula, made me think of that. We're total opposites in the patience department. For her everything has to be done now - now - now. She's a fantastic cook - but you should see her cook! It's like the Tasmanian Devil took over the kitchen. She can't operate any other way.

I was imagining trying to teach her to shoot a pistol quickly and accurately - WITH visual patience. Man, that might be tough, because she can't relate to the concept. But with enough persistence and practice - if she did "get it," I bet she'd be a formidable adversary.

That reminds me of me and the TGO in our early days. He is a male Paula. Back in the ol' days, it was his lack of patience that allowed me to beat him. He'd usually shoot faster and more aggressively than me, but he'd invariably screw something up big time, because he was always rushing. But then came the day when he "got it." I remember him explaining the experience. Suddenly, in the midst of shoooting multiple strings in a Bianchi Cup man-on-man shootoff, he realized that he could take the time to see what he needed to see to know he hit each target as he shot it - and no one could beat him. After that I could seldom beat him.
be

[tightloop]

benos, on May 29 2008, 04:10 PM, said:

Still wondering... Perhaps being a patient person by nature helps or even allows you to bring the quality of patience into an activity, when you realize it is necessary for your best performance.

My girlfriend, Paula, made me think of that. We're total opposites in the patience department. For her everything has to be done now - now - now. She's a fantastic cook - but you should see her cook! It's like the Tasmanian Devil took over the kitchen. She can't operate any other way.

I was imagining trying to teach her to shoot a pistol quickly and accurately - WITH visual patience. Man, that might be tough, because she can't relate to the concept. But with enough persistence and practice - if she did "get it," I bet she'd be a formidable adversary.

That reminds me of me and the TGO in our early days. He is a male Paula. Back in the ol' days, it was his lack of patience that allowed me to beat him. He'd usually shoot faster and more aggressively than me, but he'd invariably screw something up big time, because he was always rushing. But then came the day when he "got it." I remember him explaining the experience. Suddenly, in the midst of shoooting multiple strings in a Bianchi Cup man-on-man shootoff, he realized that he could take the time to see what he needed to see to know he hit each target as he shot it - and no one could beat him. After that I could seldom beat him.
be

Man, I love it when you relate one of "THOSE" moments...when you have one, the light does indeed come on...

[Brian Payne]

I feel you must first define what patience is for yourself.

I hate when the waitress doesn't bring my coffee and water "right away". I hate having to wait in line for anything. I get "really" pissed when someone buds the line in front of me. I hate when you are waiting your turn at the drive through and the person in front of you gets their food, but spends five minutes looking through their bag to make sure the order is correct before they get out of your way.


I am calm during drug raids, but impatient waiting around for them to take place. I am amped waiting for my turn to shoot a stage, but once the shooting starts I feel at peace. Maybe we all have a different comfort zone that is our "happy place".

As a Chief of Police I am often forced into situations that are stressful and hectic, but I get to handle them on "my" terms. Just like shooting a stage is done under "my" terms. I am in control and I don't have to wait for anyone to make decisions for me.

If "patience is the ability to persevere calmly when faced with difficulties" then I am a very patient person. If "patience is the ability to calmly wait for other people to pull their heads out of their butt" then that ain't me.

[Flatland Shooter]

GentlemanJim, on May 28 2008, 08:10 PM, said:

I have lots of it for other people or kids....no so much for myself
Jim

Jim has once again nailed it.

Bill