[Gunmac]

I have been sighting in my handguns at 25 feet since that is a distance I can see a target clear enough to aim accurately. At 50 feet the target is not clear and precise aiming is tough.

The question I have is within what distance does a bullet maintain level travel? If I sight it in at 25 feet how far can I expect to shoot to point of aim? At some point I realize I will need to aim higher to compensate for the bullet falling but I am not clear what that distance is.

[Flexmoney]

I have a Sierra reloading manual that has nice charts in it that tell the bullet drop. Caliber, weight and velocity play a part. (So, what are you shooting?)

I posted info for 40 Major (180's at 950fps, IIRC) some time back.

While 25 feet is pretty close (~8y), it shouldn't be much of an issue for much of our handgun shooting in USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge/Self Defense. (If you are missing targets that are at 50ft., it's not because of bullet drop.)

[Steve J]

Too many variable to give you one answer. It depends on caliber, bullet weight, velocity, etc., etc.
For me shooting 45 ACP with a 230 grain bullet, I like the bullet hole to dot the top of the front sight at point of aim out to 15 yards. Since the bullet is still rising at 25 yards, the impact is about 3 inches high at that range. Since most of the matches that I shoot have targets from 3 yards to 35 yards that works for me. Most people here I think will tell you to sight in at 15 - 25 yards. The .40 Limited guys can weigh in.

There are some good ballistics charts available for factory ammo that will give you an idea of what your ballistic arc should be.

http://www.blazer-am...azer_chart.aspx
http://www.federalca...cs/default.aspx
http://www.remington...ion/Ballistics/
http://www.wincheste...og/handgun.aspx

[G-ManBart]

Gunmac, on May 15 2008, 10:48 AM, said:

I have been sighting in my handguns at 25 feet since that is a distance I can see a target clear enough to aim accurately. At 50 feet the target is not clear and precise aiming is tough.

The question I have is within what distance does a bullet maintain level travel? If I sight it in at 25 feet how far can I expect to shoot to point of aim? At some point I realize I will need to aim higher to compensate for the bullet falling but I am not clear what that distance is.

It depends on the type of gun and the ammo you're using. Something like a .45acp with 230gr bullets is going to show a lot more drop than say a .38 Super with 125gr bullets. Regardless of gun/caliber with an 8yd zero I wouldn't worry about bullet drop until you're well past 25yds....exactly how far can only be determined by testing it out (or a decent ballistics program). I'd bet that even at 50yds you're going to find that your hits are only a little bit low.

Even though the target isn't clear for you at 50ft it's still possible to shoot decent groups if you can see the front sight clearly. You might want to get a normal USPSA target with the top half colored black (a hard cover target) and simply put the front sight on the transition between the two colors....doesn't matter if it's not clear, just that you have something to hold on....you might be surprised with the results.

[NC Shooter]

Being an OLD bulleseye shooter, I can tell you that a .45 ACP from a 5" pistol will typically drop about two inches from 25 yards to 50 yards and around 15 inches or more depending upon your load to 100 yards. Just shoot center mass and you should stay in the A zone if you are sighted at 25 feet and and are only shooting out to less than 50 yards. You can always favor up or down a little once you know exactly how your load performs at any particular distance. Hope this helps.

Ken

[bkeeler]

Flexmoney, on May 15 2008, 10:36 AM, said:

I have a Sierra reloading manual that has nice charts in it that tell the bullet drop. Caliber, weight and velocity play a part. (So, what are you shooting?)

I posted info for 40 Major (180's at 950fps, IIRC) some time back.

While 25 feet is pretty close (~8y), it shouldn't be much of an issue for much of our handgun shooting in USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge/Self Defense. (If you are missing targets that are at 50ft., it's not because of bullet drop.)

http://www.brianenos...p;hl=sight+zero

bk

[Allgoodhits]

Sight in at the longest distance that 85-95% of your shots are likely to be. Then aim point on for 98% of your shots if shooting iron sights. If scoped, then sight over bore makes the answer more complex, but basically the same except you may need to hold a tad high at distances closer than 10 yds. Example: a 125 gr 9mm bullet travelling at approximately 1030 fps if zeroed at at 50 yds will shoot about an inch high at 25 yds, and an inch low at 10 yds if the line of sight (scope) is about 1.5" over bore. YMMV.

BTW the bullet does not climb after leaving the bore, unless the muzzle was elevated slightly. Gravity effects the bullet as soon as it leaves the muzzle, thus it is dropping. The bullet typically crosses the line of sight twice. On the way up to the line of sight, then on the way back down.

MJ

[sargenv]

In shooting ICORE, we have that one annoying stage "the standards" where your max shot is 50 yards. So I zero for 50 yards. It comes in handy for those evil 6" plates at 35 yards that one of our range curmudgeons likes to throw at us now and then. I use a 5" 627 with 158s shooting about 130 pf. For my limited and open guns I tend to zero at 25 yards.

[Gunmac]

I want to be sure I understand the answer.

For my 147 g 9 mm loads (130 pf = 885 ft/sec) for typical IDPA distances sighting in at 25 feet if done correctly should be fine.

One individual mentioned an arc and some disagree. I did not understand why a bullet will climb after firing. Even if I screw up the recoil control will the muzzle lift fast enough to cause an arc in the path or will I only get a downward arc?

[Bubber]

Gunmac, on May 16 2008, 07:26 AM, said:

I want to be sure I understand the answer.

For my 147 g 9 mm loads (130 pf = 885 ft/sec) for typical IDPA distances sighting in at 25 feet if done correctly should be fine.

One individual mentioned an arc and some disagree. I did not understand why a bullet will climb after firing. Even if I screw up the recoil control will the muzzle lift fast enough to cause an arc in the path or will I only get a downward arc?

Allgoodhits covered it. When aiming at a specific point the line of the bore may be at an upward angle, dependeding on what distance it is zeroed at. the bullet will travel the bore angle to a point and then start a more pronounced "fall". The Bore angle and line of sights will intersect twice in this scenario. But as the Duke sez "Aim at the big part and pull"

[Alan550]

Gunmac,

If you think about it, the bullet has to "climb" in order to get up to the line of sight. The barrel is below the line of sight, and if the bullet started dropping the moment it left the barrel, it would never get up to where you're aiming. The barrel, in relation to the sights, has a slight upward tilt. This starts the bullet on a slightly upward trajectory.

If you sight-in at 25 feet, that trajectory will be quite extreme as opposed to a 25 or 50 yard sight-in, so your longer distance shots will be higher with the sights depressed that much. The trajectory is an arc, and the steeper the angle of the initial path, the higher it will be overall.

Alan~^~

[NC Shooter]

To put it another way, All firearms must launch the bullet in a trajectory. It has nothing to do with you or even muzzle flip.

Example: If you have ever heard someone bragging that their .270 was a very flat shooter, this is a misnomer. The sights of any firearm must point the barrel slightly above horizontal or every shot would be low compared to line of sight to the target.

Physics dictate that the projectile begins to drop from the nanosecond that it leaves the barrel because of Earths gravity. If you could drop a bullet from one hand at the exact moment that you fire a bullet from a gun in the other they would both hit the ground at the same instant IF the guns sights did not compensate by elevating the barrel to cause impact on target at a specific distance. Think of this in the same terms as artillary fire trajectory.

I hope this helps - some of the people I work with feel that my explanations get more complicated than they need to be. Sorry.

Regards,
Ken

This post has been edited by NC Shooter: 17 May 2008 - 10:00 PM

[Gunmac]

Thanks for the explanations. I can better understand the trajectory responses now. Just when I thought I was getting the hang of this stuff I see there is much more to learn.

Back to the range for more practice.

[JKSNIPER]

IMHO
Sight in the weapon for the range you will be shooting it at.
You should NOT see the target clearly.
You should be focusing on the sights (Specifically the front sight )

Bullets do not "climb"
Unless the laws of physics have been repealed and we were not notified.
"Gravity.....it's not just a recommendation. Its the LAW!"
Projectiles start to drop the instant they leave the muzzle.
They leave the line of departure and then fall through the line of sight hopefully intersecting at the point where you have aimed at.
Otherwise its sight adjustment time.
JK

[Flexmoney]

Here is a graphic representation of the bore angle
 Bore_angle.jpg (17.82K)
Number of downloads: 133


And, here is the bullet path...which is always dropping, but it starts out angled up with the barrel tilt.
 Bullet_path.gif (12.68K)
Number of downloads: 149

[steveyacht]

I have been wondering, what range do you sight your handguns in at? I am currently shooting a P14 for USPSA events and a Glock 17 for steel challenge. Previously, I thought that 25 yards was the norm, but lately I have been considering a lesser distance. So, I thought I would ask the sage advice from those here.

Thanks!

Steve

[dapribek]

Because of the normally bad weather this time of year here in Buffalo, many of our guys sight in at 50 feet on our indoor range and leave it like that all year long. Hope this helps.

[Rocket35]

25 yards here.

[Tzygä]

Normally 20 yards, but it debends how far are the targets in my next match if many targets are far ( 25yards or longer) then 25 yards.

[Duane Thomas]

50 feet, primarily because that's what I have available at the indoor range on which I do most of my shooting.

[Jeff686]

Iron sights? It doesn't much matter, does it?

For 9mm minor in 115gr bullets, I'd probably pick 10 or 15 yards. They also cross zero at 30 or 40 yards, and only go about .25 inch over line-of-sight.

See:

Attached File(s)

•  9mm_traj.JPG (69.76K)
  Number of downloads: 53

[bkeeler]

15yds.

BK

[bkeeler]

Also look here.


http://www.brianenos...p;hl=sight+zero


Hope that helps.

BK

[Flexmoney]

I merged a couple of topics. (Thanks for the links, BK !)

- Admin

[mgood]

You sight them in?

I've never had adjustable sights on a handgun. (Just one more thing for me to screw up.)
If it hits within an inch of my point of aim at 25-30 feet, when I do my part, I figure that's good enough in a defensive gun. My very limited experience in competition suggests that it's also good enough to hit the "A" scoring area or knock down a steel plate at most distances I've seen in a course of fire without even worrying about how high or low I need to aim to account for distance.

Tell me if I'm way off in thinking this way.

This post has been edited by mgood: 16 March 2009 - 08:29 PM