[Jake Di Vita]

Little bit of a thread drift, but unless you are planning on becoming an avid cyclist, I'd really recommend against cycling for overall fitness.

Here is a short video basically explaining why.

[hk_mtbr]

So, if you do one of those exercises you aren't fit in other areas? I don't get it.

I think what he is getting at is that you need well rounded excercise...granted my arms aren't as strong as my legs but I wouldn't discount this as a great way to get into shape...I know too many personal examples. In that short peice it sounds like he's saying that you can't get anerobic work from cycling...that too depends on what type of riding you do.

Slow steady riding (rails to trails) is likely just going to improve your aerobice fitness over building muscle. But is you start working on sprints or hill repeats you will get anerobic.

Ehhh...there are many different theories for each type of exercise.

Go Ride!

Sorry about the drift - drift off

[shred]

IIRC TGO was (and may still be) an avid mountain biker. I get what they're saying about sport-specific training, but I'm thinking any exercise is better than none...

[Viggen]

In the final analysis I'm with hk-mtbr. Go Ride.


Crossfit is mighty fine stuff but I have to admit that Coach's philosophy is hard. At this stage of life I am much more likely to go ride for 1 or 20 miles and vary the intensity than to do squats an burpee's until I puke.

[bigsaxdog]

i know giant makes a more upright geometry road bike. my buddy just got one, don't remember the name, but it's real nice. his was carbon with good components, so it wasn't cheap.....and i really don't get that coach guy saying tri-athletes aren't fit. check out some of the "clydesdale" guys. one of the guys in my area is John Cannon, the buccaneer defensive lineman from back in the day. probably 6'5", 240, ripped, fast as shit. go tell him that......you gotta cross train, but to down play the aerobic value of cycling is just dumb. that guy was talking like you never go anaerobic while cycling. i'm trying to stop laughing.......he oughta ride with some of my friends then. there's no argument that cross-training is the best way to overall fitness, you just gotta mix it up. but when you get older, and you have no knees, bikes and swimming are a great prescription for a heathy heart.

[Viggen]

bigsaxdog, on May 12 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

i know giant makes a more upright geometry road bike. my buddy just got one, don't remember the name, but it's real nice. his was carbon with good components, so it wasn't cheap.....and i really don't get that coach guy saying tri-athletes aren't fit. check out some of the "clydesdale" guys. one of the guys in my area is John Cannon, the buccaneer defensive lineman from back in the day. probably 6'5", 240, ripped, fast as shit. go tell him that......you gotta cross train, but to down play the aerobic value of cycling is just dumb. that guy was talking like you never go anaerobic while cycling. i'm trying to stop laughing.......he oughta ride with some of my friends then. there's no argument that cross-training is the best way to overall fitness, you just gotta mix it up. but when you get older, and you have no knees, bikes and swimming are a great prescription for a heathy heart.

Amen

[Jake Di Vita]

Quote

that guy was talking like you never go anaerobic while cycling. i'm trying to stop laughing.......he oughta ride with some of my friends then.

Do you really feel that cycling anaerobically is comparable to weight bearing anaerobic exercise? That's the same as saying a great cyclist is automatically going to be a great runner. That just isn't how it works...and those are both aerobically dominated activities.

If your friends are doing anything other than interval work....such as long miles (which is what the vast majority of cycling training is built upon...and running) they are basically aerobic for about 90% of the time. Yeah...cyclists do go anaerobic for short periods of times (let's see a cyclist stay anaerobic while riding an entire century) at which that effort is controlled by both the phosphagen and glycolytic pathways...not the oxidative pathway...although as discussed before, the transferability of metabolic conditioning gained through "cardio" is very limited to other activities. Hence the reason why he used shoveling gravel as an analogy.

To be more analogous, I'd love to see any world class endurance athlete (including your friend the triathlete/ex football player) come and shovel my driveway after 12 inches of wet snow. Am I saying cycling is bad? Absolutely not. I personally enjoy cycling very much. Will cycling get you fit for everyday life? Hell no. Is something better than nothing? Hell yes. Are triathletes fit? Depends on your criteria for what being "fit" means.

To use even another analogy, imagine a hopper filled with hundreds of various workouts and real world scenarios. Anything from running, to carrying a 100 pound sandbag for 800 meters, to doing 100 pull-ups, to max effort squats. To me...the fittest person is the one who has the highest average score. Yeah, that cyclist is gonna crush me on the bike, but I'm pretty sure he's not gonna be the one I call when I gotta move a refrigerator into my house or do concrete work.

To use another cliche that fits well here. "Nature punishes the specialist."

[Neomet]

Done my share of cycling. Bike racing, Double Centuries, Triathalons, etc. I'm no exercise physiologist so won't comment on that but I will say the two things I disliked about cycling were how much time was involved, particullarly on LSD days, and the other was the dreaded "dead dick". Bike long enough where you don't/can't get out of the saddle frequently and the pressure from the saddle makes Mr. Winkie go to sleep. Very disturbing feelling. Who knows though, saddles have probably improved tons since the 80s. This is just about road biking. Never did the MB thing which strikes me as a bit more of a mix of aero and anarobic work.

[Jake Di Vita]

One other thing I'd like to add...cross training is not limited to the young and fit. I know of plenty of men and women in their 60s and 70s and plenty of overweight people anywhere from 20 years old and older doing it (even with bad knees etc.)

Even I've already had one knee reconstructed losing most of my cartilage...and have a condition that doesn't allow me to run more than 800 meters without extreme physical pain.

[P.Pres]

Quote

Neomet, on May 12 2008, 07:04 PM, said:

Done my share of cycling. Bike racing, Double Centuries, Triathalons, etc. I'm no exercise physiologist so won't comment on that but I will say the two things I disliked about cycling were how much time was involved, particullarly on LSD days, and the other was the dreaded "dead dick". Bike long enough where you don't/can't get out of the saddle frequently and the pressure from the saddle makes Mr. Winkie go to sleep. Very disturbing feelling. Who knows though, saddles have probably improved tons since the 80s. This is just about road biking. Never did the MB thing which strikes me as a bit more of a mix of aero and anarobic work.

Oh Deaddick is a very scarry thing the first couple of
times but like everything else, you build a tolerance !!!

Whats up with the gut and man boobs on that guy telling me that I'm weak because I
ride a bike !!

He obviously never went riding with me and my buddies, Climbing 6000ft in 8 miles on a dirt
single track trail while maintaining balance and focus to not plung off a cliff, hikeing over boulders
while carrying your bike, then decending at up to 45 mph while maintaining some control in jumps
turns etc... Next day your kinda sore all over !!

Not that I do this all the time, but when this was my every Saturday, I was'nt getting winded while
shoveling !

[carinab]

:popcorn1: Waiting for the mods....

[Jake Di Vita]

Quote

Whats up with the gut and man boobs on that guy telling me that I'm weak because I
ride a bike !! ohmy.gif

Well...that may be one of the most ignorant things I've read in awhile. In fact, if you'd like I'd be more than happy to link you to some videos of athletes that the guy with a gut and man boobs has trained.

Brian doesn't compete anymore...does that mean you're gonna stop taking advice from him too?

[Catfish]

A couple lifetimes ago, I was a very hardcore cyclist and triathlete. At one time I was a borderline Cat2 bike racer; comparable to an M class shooter I'd say. I would regularly put anywhere between 400-600 miles a week on the bike when I was focused on cycling. I raced at the amateur level and the collegiate level and I was fairly competitive over the course of the year.

That being said, Jake's point is a valid one based on my experience. I could sprint over 40mph on the bike, my resting heart rate was often in the 50s (unless I'd been overtraining) and ride 100 miles in well under 4 hours in a group - but don't ask me to carry in the groceries. I was exceptionally fit, but not necessarily healthy. If I missed half an hour of sleep, or one meal, or didn't drink enough fluids, I was borderline sick. If I went through a couple days of that, I WOULD get sick. The slightest variation in my schedule could make me sick.

I'm now at the gym, lifting by the Crossfit example and can't say enough for the program. Yeah, I probably couldn't avg (hell, I KNOW I couldn't) 27 mph for a 40K ride tomorrow, but I can damn sure lift that bag of mulch in the garage and spread it around the trees in my yard without killing myself. And then dry fire, make bullets, and carry on with my regular daily activities. When I was racing the bike, I would often times come home from a hard day on the bike and not be able to walk upstairs, much less carry a heavy bag. I can say, without reservation, that my body is much more immune to being sick now - I may not have a resting heart rate in the 50s or body fat at about 5% anymore but I can handle physical and mental stress without creating a problem or wearing me down.

I think if you're going to ride for fun, go for it - but as has been said, throw in some gym work and other activities. I think also that Crossfit is an excellent option and should be explored if you're looking for something to get you in shape.

[Nik Habicht]

Everyone -- please step back, take a breath, and only then resume posting. This thread --- which appears like it could lead to an interesting discussion -- is close to Brian's politeness line....

Thank you!

[P.Pres]

Quote

Jake Di Vita, on May 12 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

Quote

Whats up with the gut and man boobs on that guy telling me that I'm weak because I
ride a bike !! ohmy.gif

Well...that may be one of the most ignorant things I've read in awhile. In fact, if you'd like I'd be more than happy to link you to some videos of athletes that the guy with a gut and man boobs has trained.

Brian doesn't compete anymore...does that mean you're gonna stop taking advice from him too?

No need to take a breath!!! Jake, I'm just having fun, with all do respect I have no idea who the guy
in the video is and I am not knocking him, I just couldnt help myself !!

I have always had a very physical job, kind of like shoveling all day, and so I have only seen strength improvements
in myself from biking. I think you have a very valid point indeed but like was said before, biking is better then
not doing anything at all. Some people are not out to be fit all over but are just trying to prevent the next heart
attack and biking is a great low impact way for them to "move". Keeps them interested and not focused on the
physical pain of exercising.

Ah hell, you get my point !!

[Jake Di Vita]

Alright, I apologize for goin' off a bit.

I do agree that something is better than nothing...but I've never been one to take things halfway. In fact if this thread causes one person to take it further, I'd be extremely happy.

[XRe]

DIRTY CHAMBER, on May 12 2008, 08:51 PM, said:

Whats up with the gut and man boobs on that guy telling me that I'm weak because I
ride a bike !!

Well, FWIW... since you guys have settled down...

Greg Glassman has a background as a competitive gymnast, and as a cyclist (which he took up after he had a bad accident in gymnastics, which nuked his hip - watch the limp he's got walking around). Apparently, the cycling got to him, as well, eventually, and he's not able to physically do a lot of the stuff anymore simply due to physical ability...

Mark Twight has been training as a competitive cyclist, and is/was a world class alpine climber. He also (apparently) trains other folks who ride competitive cycling competitions. They train in a similar methodology to CrossFit (quite a hardcore version of it - if you think what Glassman is talking about is over the top, you should track the workouts Mark posts at http://gymjones.com).

We have a couple of tri-athletes at our gym, as well as a couple of marathoners, who've all seen tremendous gains by adding CrossFit to their regimen, as well. I think they'd all agree that the "fat man with boobs" knows at least a little bit of something CrossFit doesn't replace sport specific training, obviously, but its easy enough to juggle the two together, etc....

I do agree, though - getting moving in any fashion is far better than staying on the couch

[P.Pres]

Everybody remembers this guy ? I wish I could but that just
looks like work !! ....got to have fun too !!


http://youtube.com/watch?v=57pv_1j4dH0


http://youtube.com/w...feature=related

This post has been edited by DIRTY CHAMBER: 12 May 2008 - 09:44 PM

[XRe]

The Ross-Training dude is pretty hardcore...

I don't know... these guys are pretty bad ass, too http://www.youtube.c...h?v=IMjFN-m2VOM

[BigDave]

My XXXX is better than your XXXX.

I find the notion of someone saying to a person "you're really not fit" who just ran a sub-2:45 marathon AFTER cycling for 4.5 hrs (avg 24 mph+) and swimming 2.4 miles of open ocean in less than an hour simply insane.

But, my definition of insane may be different than your's.

[Jake Di Vita]

Yeah...isn't it also ironic how many marathoners you hear about who drop dead from heart attacks? What they have is called sport specific fitness. What they do not have if everyday general fitness. Would you agree there?

[hk_mtbr]

Jake Di Vita, on May 13 2008, 11:42 AM, said:

Yeah...isn't it also ironic how many marathoners you hear about who drop dead from heart attacks? What they have is called sport specific fitness. What they do not have if everyday general fitness. Would you agree there?

merriam webster:

Main Entry: 3fit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English fitt strife
Date: circa 1541
1 a: a sudden violent attack of a disease (as epilepsy) especially when marked by convulsions or unconsciousness : paroxysm b: a sudden but transient attack of a physical disturbance
2: a sudden burst or flurry (as of activity) <cleaned the whole house in a fit of efficiency>
3: an emotional reaction (as in anger or frustration) <has a fit when I show up late>

Sounds fit to me...

This post has been edited by hk_mtbr: 13 May 2008 - 08:53 AM

[driver8M3]

BigDave, on May 13 2008, 09:39 AM, said:

My XXXX is better than your XXXX.

+1

[Jake Di Vita]

I really don't know what that definition has to do with this conversation because all uses of the word "fit" there have nothing to do with fitness.

The generally recognized 10 areas of fitness (not only by the crossfit community, but experts in general) are Strength, Stamina, Flexibility, Cardio/Respiratory Endurance, Speed, Power, Coordination, Accuracy, Agility, and Balance. You are as fit as you are capable on these 10 categories.

Fitness defined as per the dictionary:

1. health.
2. capability of the body of distributing inhaled oxygen to muscle tissue during increased physical effort.
3. Also called Darwinian fitness. Biology.
a. the genetic contribution of an individual to the next generation's gene pool relative to the average for the population, usually measured by the number of offspring or close kin that survive to reproductive age.
b. the ability of a population to maintain or increase its numbers in succeeding generations.

The closest definition to what we are looking for is #2....which only deal with Cardio/Respiratory Endurance. Sorry, but a definition from a dictionary simply has no meaning to this concept.

To take it one step further....let's judge how many of those 10 characteristics cycling has a direct effect on. Cardio/Respiratory Endurance (although once again the transferability is negligible), Stamina (although only for certain groups of muscles), Strength (not at all), Flexibility (not at all), Speed (only in the area of cyclic rate of the pedals....also negligible), Power (once again limited to a certain area), Coordination (also known as proprioception...slightly), Accuracy (not at all), Agility (not at all), and Balance (limited transferability once you step off the bike).

Now I'm sure there's gonna be an uprising of disagreement there, but before you respond, take some time to think about it...how much does cycling really train all those attributes? So at best we are training 2 - 6 of the 10 aspects of fitness. Once again you are only as fit as your weakest category. So when that is combined with the fact that 2 of the 3 metabolic pathways are also all but ignored, you understand why I don't feel cycling (or running, or swimming) will get you fit for every day life.

If your goal is to be a cyclist, that's awesome and I wish you the absolute best...sport specific fitness is definitely what you're after. If your goal is to get fit for everyday life, I'd really recommend rethinking your choice.

[P.Pres]

Quote

Jake Di Vita, on May 13 2008, 09:42 AM, said:

Yeah...isn't it also ironic how many marathoners you hear about who drop dead from heart attacks? What they have is called sport specific fitness. What they do not have if everyday general fitness. Would you agree there?

Acually I think its because of "overdoing it" and not lack of of fitness. Enlarged heart from overdoing the cardio, their
resting heart rate is so low it just stops the same, but totally different !!

I have two "real" friends, one is an ex Mr. California contestant, ripped, can butterfly 150lbs. dumbells(ripped his breast
cartilage doing so, though he had a heart attack ) smokes cigarettes, eats anything, but looks very "FIT". Can
move a refrigerator by himself (and shovel all day) but can not walk 1/4 mile uphill, jog, forget about it.

The second friend is an ex Ironman contestant, does not look exceptionally "FIT" but can out run, bike, or swim anyone I
know. Has competed in the Badlands 100 (death Valley to top of Mt. Whitney run), can not lift a 150lbs dumbell but could
trail run any mountain trail and does those 10 mile montain bike all day climbs as a snack after work, I dont think he even
breaks a sweat. Eats well so that he can maintain the quality calories for supercharged output. Cannot move a refrigerator
byhimself but wont pull anything doing it with someone either.

Which is better ?? What if you put these two in an Alaska Survival type situation, who would do better on general fitness
alone ??