[desertdog]

Had another lousy match at Rio last night, haven't been that mad (at myself) in years. No bueno. BadChad is smiling, how do you disconnect from missing simple shots and trashing a stage? Per BadChad's recs I have Brian's book, 2 Mental game books, etc. It's easy to read and to say, positive thoughts, self image, don't take bad stages along for the ride, smooth is fast etc. Not working yet, frustrating, not a casual competitor. Also someone commented that it's better than being at work, but it's not, I would much rather be at work that shoot like crap ? Focus? disconnect ? Not care? Get back into muay thai? I fully realize what this does to me and my shooting but can't just flip a switch and go oh well next time. ???? Uggggghhh... Thanks in advance for any wisdom to this.

PharaohBender back in 05 said he had Relax, Don't Rush, Trust written in the bill of his cap, I'm doing this today thanks Pharaoh.

[HighVelocity]

What is it that you want to get out of a match? You have to identify THAT thing, whatever it is. For me, it's having fun. Sure, I want to win but if I'm not having fun then the win feels empty. If I'm having fun, it doesn't matter if I win. I also tend to win more often if I am having fun and less often if I'm not.

Know what you want to acheive and you will.


Gary

This post has been edited by HighVelocity: 30 April 2008 - 01:06 PM

[Jake Di Vita]

Anger doesn't fix anything bro. Especially in shooting.

[Neomet]

I used to get angry. Then I realized it did nothing for me. Didn't make me shoot better, made me not able to replay the stage in my head, made me less than a joy to be around, etc, etc. I realized I can be absolutely as motivated if I just shake my head or chuckle at my screwups as when I stomp and pout. I've actually applied this to a lot of my life and it is better for it.

Good luck with this. Anger is a bitch.

[benos]

At any particular moment, the amount of frustration felt will be in proportion to the seriousness of your shooting self-image. Just shoot, without taking anything seriously. Not only is it more fun but you'll learn much faster that way.

I know, that's much easier to say than do.

I can remember some cool experiences that followed really trashing a stage. And I remember, once, Robbie just happened to be on the same "not-caring" vibe. We were shooting a match in Tucson. I just trashed the first stage. But strangely, I wasn't upset in the slightest. And I had no idea why. Then Robbie shot the stage and trashed it as bad as I did. We both looked at each other with this funny look on our faces... And he said "I feel so weird - why don't I care right now"!?

I know that doesn't help. But it was really weird so I felt like typing it.
be

[ChuckS]

Dog,

You just have to turn your back on that stinker, maybe learn something from it but you definitely have to forgive your self. Forgiveness is defined as "surrendering all hope of a better past"

Later,
Chuck

[AlamoShooter]

This post has been edited by AlamoShooter: 01 May 2008 - 06:55 AM

[badchad]

Being close to the situation, getting mad certainly doesn’t help you; it seems to feed on itself over time and hurts your shooting a lot, I’d guess to the tune of 5-10 seconds a match.

I think taking Lanny Bassham’s advice to put the bad behind you is absolutely necessary. It’s one thing to read the books and another to do what they say. You already know what to do; you just need to force yourself to do it. Just force the negative thoughts out of your mind by focusing on the positive or at least neutral thoughts, and don’t tell others if you’re having a bad night as it only reinforces the bad, and as Neomet said it makes you less fun to be around. It doesn’t work for me to BS myself into saying I shot a stage great, when I obviously didn’t, but rather I try to think about the parts that went well, or if all else fails think about what I learned by my mistakes and what I need to do to get better (and later practice that) or else I just think about how to shoot the next stage. It’s pretty hard to stay pissed about the last stage when you busy doping the next. That’s a lot of why I’m not that talkative at a match. I know it’s better for me to visualize a good next run, than complain about how bad I just did on the last one. I still get pissed off from time to time, but once I realize what I’m doing, I do my best to knock it off ASAP.

Also I think you might be focusing too much on the outcome and trying too hard rather than the process and just letting things happen as they will (you know Zen, Bruce Lee, etc). In the TNS matches I have seen, you have had problems due to missing too many shots and having to make them up, which I think either comes from outrunning your sights, or trying so hard that your pulling the shots off target. So I think if you just shoot the speed you sight picture allows, with good trigger control, it will seem slower to you but your times will be better and you’ll have less to be mad about.

That and practice like a mother…

This post has been edited by badchad: 30 April 2008 - 08:16 PM

[EricW]

Take it from the original angry-beat-the-piss-out-of-yourself-for-any-err shooter:

You CAN'T go out there with the attitude of "don't screw up." At that point, you've already tubed the stage. Failure was part of your program.

Lanny Bassham says to be pleased with your successes and simply forget the failures. I think there's merit in that, but I also think that you can simply turn around a "failure" into a self-reflective moment to consider what parts of your technique you should focus on to create more successes. Learn something new every time you pull the trigger.

Say to yourself: "I shoot really well when I see my front sight clearly. I will see my front sight *then* trigger my shots today."

"I always break targets when my stock is locked into my cheekbone. I will fully mount my gun before shooting today."

"I always nail the reload when my shoulders are relaxed and my focus is on the edge of the magwell."

That's positive affirmation. That's how you move ahead.

[desertdog]

Thanks for the input, I will focus strongly on accuracy and just letting it occur, and yes actually trying to have fun doing this! What a concept... Chad of course knows me and I value his input and have watched him excel from his start. Input from the man himself Brian thank you, great book sorry if it doesn't appear that I read it! The roller coaster needs to even out and consistency and accuracy need to occur for me to grow in this sport. I will think and focus on all below, more input is appreciated. Relax and roll with it, not worth the crazy stress, Rio I know I have to be 'on my game' to place\win, if I mess up I lose. Need to modify this thought process. I have started my shooting 'log' colorful metaphores in it last night, scheduling and will be doing my dry firing, and will be reading the books every night.
Thanks again, just a thought but 3" groups at 1000 yards is much easier than this...

[tgibson]

I don't know if this is going to help or hurt, but I think you might be able to get something out of it. I am just like you. I totally beat myself up when I make the smallest little mistake. It often follows me to the next stage where I proceed to mess that one up to. I did this at the A1 match last summer. Hit a no shoot with my first round of the stage (prepped the trigger a little too much) and it went downhill fast from there. Totally crapped out on the stage. Did crappy on the next stage too. Luckily, that was my last stage of the day. I went into the rest of the match thinking that whoever I was shooting against may have messed up a stage or two as well, so I should just do the best I can. I ended up 14 in Limited class never would have guessed it.
On the other hand, this weekend at the 6th annual Glock match in Emmett, ID, I had a great time. I really felt like I was shooting well and had a ball. There was one stage that I messes up pretty good, but I didn't worry about it too much. I should have because I got my ass handed to me...in a big way. I guess what I am getting at is that when I go to a big match, I need to put my game face on and treat it as such.
Club matches are for having fun..big matches are for testing your skills against other good shooters you don't usually compete against. Have fun and practice your skills at club matches. When you go to the big matches, kick a$$ and take names. If you mess up, just remember that the guy or gal that you are competeing against probably didn't run every one of their stages just like they wanted to either. If you are able to get over your mess ups faster than your competitor, YOU WILL WIN!!!
My $.02 for what it is worth. Hopefully you were able to get something out of this rambleing.
Adios,
TG

[DirtDiver]

SMOOTH IS FAST.....ANGRY IS.....WELL JUST LACK OF FOCUS AND CONCENTRATION.

[Putty]

Anger is basically fear. What is it that we fear? Perhaps failure, or in the aftermath of percieved failure, an inability to perform to ones expectations. Our expectations on events that have not occurred limit our ability to be in the NOW. Some shooters call this "attention" while performing, i.e. the mind is clear and we are allowed to perceive instantaneously without pre-formed aspirations. Like wise, emotions in general conflict with our ability to be present to perform as they (emotions) exist either in what was or what will or might be.

So how do we (I) get there to this heightened state of awareness? I think we build or construct a foundation by concerted practice and match (whether local or regional) experience. Mike Seeklander put it to me this way: 1) Make your practices count. Make sure the quality of your practice consists mainly of doing everything perfect . 2) Place your attention on executing accuracy on every shot you make. The speed will come. If you have accuracy, then you have something to trade. 3) Make all your practices and matches become a state where it is the National tournament which will lend itself and enhance the quality of your shooting (removing pre-match / match jitters, heightened attention etc.).

Some of the best shooters I have been privledged to shoot with (Chuck Anderson, Brad Stahlberg, Scott Springer, TGO, Sevigny, Manny etc.) immeadiately move on when they have bummed something up. There is no going back in their minds, as what is done is done and is in the past and serves them nothing by residing there. When I watched Brad at Area 1 totally fupp up one stage, he just turned and smiled and said "sometimes things like this happen". I watched Scott totally blow a stage at nationals, but he moved on mentally and ended up taking second or first in master class.

Take Care,

B shooter Putty

[Vulture]

You need to get Lanny Bassham's audio CD's, not the book, the CD's of With Winning in Mind. He addresses this kind of situation and gives you a plan to overcome it. IMO an audio program gives you a little more depth as to what the author is trying to convey. I have been doing this for only a week and have already seen an improvement in my shooting. While i am delevoping a mental plan that suits me i have taken an attitude of not caring about my scores because i am in training for my mind and if i make a mistake thats ok because i am still developing my own plan. But guess what, i have made less mistakes, and the ones i do make i can let go of right away. My plan will only take a month or so to be realitivly set in my brain so there is no reason you can't do something similar and be on top of your game in time for the prime shooting season. Because if you can't get your head in the game you might as well stay home.

[JThompson]

desertdog, on Apr 30 2008, 01:48 PM, said:

Had another lousy match at Rio last night, haven't been that mad (at myself) in years. No bueno. BadChad is smiling, how do you disconnect from missing simple shots and trashing a stage? Per BadChad's recs I have Brian's book, 2 Mental game books, etc. It's easy to read and to say, positive thoughts, self image, don't take bad stages along for the ride, smooth is fast etc. Not working yet, frustrating, not a casual competitor. Also someone commented that it's better than being at work, but it's not, I would much rather be at work that shoot like crap ? Focus? disconnect ? Not care? Get back into muay thai? I fully realize what this does to me and my shooting but can't just flip a switch and go oh well next time. ???? Uggggghhh... Thanks in advance for any wisdom to this.

PharaohBender back in 05 said he had Relax, Don't Rush, Trust written in the bill of his cap, I'm doing this today thanks Pharaoh.

I try and laugh at myself rather than get angry. The last time a blew up I came off the stage and the squad was kinds leary thinking I might get pissed. I looked at them and said, "Did I look like a monkey f-ning a football or did it just feel that way?" We had a good laugh and the next stage I got fourth behind to very good production guys. From the FNG way of looking at it, the sooner I can laugh the better I am. That doesn't mean I take it lightly... If I dwell on mistakes into the next stage I'm already screwed.... When I walk out there I want to be thinking only about this one... the last one is in the past and can not be changed.

Then again there are some days which are just FUBAR no matter what you do. Those are the days where you HAVE to be able to laugh at yourself. A day of lousy shooting is still a better day then one with none at all.

JT

[JThompson]

benos, on Apr 30 2008, 05:05 PM, said:

I know that doesn't help. But it was really weird so I felt like typing it.
be

You do realize you're kinda a weird guy anyway right?

[carinab]

Putty, on Apr 30 2008, 11:57 PM, said:

Anger is basically fear. What is it that we fear? Perhaps failure, or in the aftermath of percieved failure, an inability to perform to ones expectations.

Gotta disagree with you here. Anger is the reaction one has when something happens that we think should not have happened. Fear is anticipation of something happening that we do not want to happen. And there are flavors of anger; steely, calm resolve versus wild bezerker mode. Anger can be useful if used to push aside fear and direct your intent...for example if a stage seems intimidating and you have a nag of self doubt. It's a trick of the day but it can work.

Another trick of the day is to put a time limit on how long you can be angry. If your personality type is such that can't help but to react with anger when a mistake happens. Fine, be good and ticked off for one minute - wallow in it, experience it fully. 'Course don't be an a$$clown to the rest of your squad during that minute. When the sixty seconds are up, let go of it.

[Putty]

What do we truly bring to the line when we shoot? I think we bring a variety of things, but ultimately we bring ourselves or whom we believe that we are. Whether these are constructs of " I am an A-class shooter" or " I am pissed about my last stage performance" are intrinsically a conceptual sense of self (seeing myself as this or that) is ego. Behind every self-positive concept is the fear of not being good enough. Behind every negative self-concept is the hidden desire of being better than others.

Understanding who we really are when we get to the line is the 100% "mental" game of which this sport is comprised. Seeklander talks about developing mental triggers that puts you into a state of performance i.e. complete presence. The constructs that we bring to the line, inhibit our ability to be totally present, because only by being completely present while we shoot, are we able to fully express those tangibles that make for great shooting (relaxed, smooth, focused attention etc.) Mental triggers or the ability to become completely focused with our attention is a practiced event. I think we can more fully express those skills without the limitations of constructs, which by definition is plainly ego in whatever form it manifests itself.

A good tool for me is to be aware of what I think as this sometimes creates the emotions that I feel. Follow the pathways between the two "Crap this is a tough stage=nervouseness" for example, in this way we become aware and more present to perform in the now. There is an intrinsic link between ego and fear, where fear governs the ego and takes you out of being present to perform.

Additionally, I do not think it is relevant whether someone agrees with this or not. It is merely how I percieve or would like to perform. We tend to learn by degrees from what others have presented before us in order to make it our own.

[carinab]

Both an apple and an onion are food but they don't taste the same. Fear and anger are certainly all about ego states. Awareness of thoughts/emotions (and their root cause) without attachment to them would be the ideal. However, when we fail to remain detached and get emotionally entangled in a thought, how then best to let it go fast and accurately - especially right when we step into the box? If I were a better zen practitioner, I could drop the attachment quicker. So when A + B happens, my reaction of C may happen but not stick. But when it does stick and I can't let go, is it detrimental to add C + D to get back to zero?

[Putty]

So if A is your thought and B is the resultant emotion, that is the state of not being present which is your reaction. C would be your awareness of A & B occurring, which diminishes A & B's dominant role.
When things don't stick and we continue to cycle our minds for a solution, we are still creating mental constructs that keep us out of being truly present. The mind cannot formulate processes when we are truly aware of it doing so. The mind is not who we are.

[carinab]

Okay, I follow you that once you become aware of why A +B occur, their impact diminishes...But if awareness doesn't diminish A or B or C to the point of removing self doubt, to where "now" is achieved, then why would it not be efficient to use a separate emotion to combat the attachment and bring yourself back to now. It's not graceful I'll admit and far outside of the zen process. But I'm talking about doing this in the space of minutes while you are on deck....does that matter? Does that change things?

[Flyin40]

Something that has helped me deal with those situations that don't go so well is that I have learned not to judge my shooting. I have learned to be able to look at my shooting without saying I screwed up and its taken me about a yr to learn how to do it. If something doesn't go well I don't really worry about at all. I know after the match I will breakdown my performance and thats when I look at it. At that point I still don't look at as I did something wrong. The only label I put on anything that didn't go so well is "things to improve/work on"

Using Lanny's book and doing alot of talking with Flexmoney I have been able to pretty much eliminate any focus or attention on anything negative. Its been a long process that I"m still working on but I have come a long way.

Another thing I have come to realize that in this game you are going to have mikes and no shoots especially when your coming up through classes and trying to figure everything out. This game makes you push the envelope on speed and accuracy. Once I realized this it made it much easier to deal with it when it happened. Your goal should be all alphas and you should train and learn to think that way. Take a look major match results, in fact take a look at last yrs Michigan World Shoot Qualifier. Take a look at the penalties all the top guys got. Its going to happen and when it does how you deal with it to try and minimize its impact. How easy is it during a course of fire when something goes wrong that everything else after that is bad. Then the next stage its still affecting you. I been able to overcome by using a daily journal(directive affirmation) that I write every day. Through it I found the root of my problem and since that point I have made alot of progress.

Flyin

[Putty]

carinab, on May 2 2008, 06:14 PM, said:

Okay, I follow you that once you become aware of why A +B occur, their impact diminishes...But if awareness doesn't diminish A or B or C to the point of removing self doubt, to where "now" is achieved, then why would it not be efficient to use a separate emotion to combat the attachment and bring yourself back to now. It's not graceful I'll admit and far outside of the zen process. But I'm talking about doing this in the space of minutes while you are on deck....does that matter? Does that change things?

If there is still self-doubt, that is ok, being aware of it is the beginning. Just be there with it. Surrender. Using other mind constructs (emotions to battle emotions) is just more ego. Resisting what is, creates tension as the mind spins for its sense of identity.
Practice awareness all throughout the day. Do you ever not stop thinking? We think about the past, the future, what that azzhole said at work, how am I going to get them back, labels, painful emotions, perceived hurts, internal dialogue etc. etc. etc. It is madness. Being aware of those thoughts brings presence into your life. Does anything that we think about, truly matter? Is that who we are? If you can go about life with presence and approach thinking from a direction of awareness, that is the key.

[Stuck in C]

Staying angry and being unable to let go is focusing on the past instead of the future-you should be looking forwards, not backwards. Analyze your past performance after the emotions have calmed.

[BD Williamson]

I was shooting a match a couple of years ago and was talking to Rob L. after a stage and asked him how to over come my anger problem I have after a stage. His response was that after you shoot the stage its done gone nothing you can do now. Point was look at what you just did wrong and correct it on the next stage. It took me a long time to over come my anger problems but man I wish I had fixed it a long time ago because I sure got better not taking the anger with me to the next stage. Remember just because you trashed 1 stage the match is not over till the end. I cant tell you how many times I thought I was out of the match to then find out I had won the match because I just stayed with it and didnt give up.

Brian