[EricW]

Well...do you think beads are a help or hindrance for flying clays. Had a chat with Bob James today. I've always disliked beads for some reason, but all the cool kids have them, or so I thought. Turns out that more than a couple hot rocks run bald ribs. I think I've already decided to dump the thing, but these kinds of discussions are always good fun.

This post has been edited by EricW: 25 April 2008 - 10:00 PM

[AikiDale]

Not only do I like beads, I sold my beaded Remmy and replaced it with a plutonium/einsteinium-powered fiber optic Benelli.

ETA: I gladly gave the Hippie chick the love beads.

This post has been edited by AikiDale: 25 April 2008 - 10:14 PM

[Flexmoney]

I've drank some shine, but never built one.

I don't know nothing about no shotgun stuff. I do know that if you are going to do something different from the cool kids...you gotta be able to back it up by kicking (all) their asses.

[Hank Ellis]

Assuming we're talking about the Clays sports, I sorta use the beads. Sorta meaning that I use the beads as a quick check that my mount is right, then I ignore them.

Since you don't aim a shotgun, you point it, you can pretty much knock the things off and still bust the frisbees.

[zhunter]

Unless yer Turkey hunting, or slug hunting for Deer etc... Beads on a shotgun are useless

[SiG Lady]

"Hip" and "Daddio" came from two slightly different eras. In fact, "hip" used to be "hep" during the "Daddio" period of time........ <-- hep cat

[AlamoShooter]

A top shooter in any sport can prove something works Or prove it is wrong = in the same day.
A bead is not going to hurt you shooting more than 0.02% -IF you have good technical skills. IF You are week minded and shoot out of superstition ....mounting the Beads on your shoes will work, if you think it will help.
IN order to learn good technical skill you need the bead as a reference point for the mind to measure off of 'AFTER!' the shot is made.
The learning part is don after the shot = As in what did you see when the shot broke? = was it over ? under ? off line? behind? slow in comparison to the target? OR what.
Taking the bead off will give a few more targets rite away " IN the short Term" But it will hold you back form becoming an All Around Good Shooter.

Shots past 45 yards the bead does play a part in making the rite Line ,& Speed , = that translates to the rite lead.

If you can make a shots with -Pas-throw, Sustained, Pull-away, Intercept, and Reverse lead. =THIN it may be fine to take off the bead.
OR if you are making all your shots with just a Sustained lead = take it off to break a habit

This is mean but most of the Top clay shooters do things "like taking the bead off" as a Trick. As is in Trick of the Week.
Taking off the bead only masks a problem in skills.

With your Eyes focused out on the target area before it appears ,...the bead will be of no factor.

[WillM]

What AlamoShooter said....

Early in my shooting careeer, I once watched one of the "cool kids" lose a night-time, under-the-lights shootoff by a disastrous margin in Reno at the US Winternational sporting clays shoot and asked him what the heck happened. "I couldn't see my rib" was his reply and I was dumbfounded. I'd been told to NEVER look at the bead and that I shouldn't even be able to SEE the rib...WTF?? Turns out he [a consistent winner] was a one-eyed shooter who uses his rib/bead as a reference to gauge his lead. If I, a mere mortal, try to do that or do it unconsciously [check the lead] it's a miss. For him, not being able to see the rib because it was so dark [shooting under the lights is cool but a learned art] meant he had no point of reference, thus many misses.

This was brought home to me several years later while attending some big-time flyer events, both columbaire and box birds and watching some of the top dogs take a piece of chalk and run it down the rib of the gun. When I asked what they were doing I was told they need to see the rib to know where to shoot. No way a mere mortal or regular shotgun shooter can do this, but when you're talking flyers, sporting clays is baby brother to the intensity, high pressure and high dollars involved. The top guys in that game know every trick and use every advantage.

Eric, don't overthink this. I've shot with you and you have great fundamentals and ability. No matter if you have a bead or not, if you're thinking about it, it's a distraction. Run what ya brung and don't worry about it. Let's shoot again soon. Will

[HSMITH]

I have beads and sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. If it is a long or tight shot where precision is required you can bet the farm I am going to be using the bead. If it is a closer or VERY fast shot I won't use them. I use a fiber with a LONG hood leading into it for ultra precision shooting and low light conditions. Different tools for different jobs, if the only tool you have is a hammer all of your problems had better be nails......

[P.E. Kelley]

They came with the gun/s.

I don't "use" them 'cause I am not looking at them.

Hell, if one could run a pistol well enough sans sight why would ya need/want them on yer scattergun?

See the bird......break the bird.

So Mr. "E" are you going to shoot the FITASC match? How about the WA state Sporting match at Landt?

Yak at ya soon.

Patrick

[tightloop]

Hank Ellis, on Apr 26 2008, 07:07 AM, said:

Assuming we're talking about the Clays sports, I sorta use the beads. Sorta meaning that I use the beads as a quick check that my mount is right, then I ignore them.

Since you don't aim a shotgun, you point it, you can pretty much knock the things off and still bust the frisbees.

You nailed it Hank....+1

[AlamoShooter]

The question about the Bead is a "Very Good" question and shows that you are making advanced progress, by the question its self.
WillM pointed out something I had completely blocked out with the night shooting.
Nothing is more of a kick in the gut than to make a shoot-off in the championship ring and find that you are shooting blind.
The night shooting on longer birds is a great example of how much your eyes can use ALL the information to make a good shot.
and I like H Smith with the Hammer and Nails. = the bead is just one small tool in the good shooters Big Box of tools.

The other question I thought of too was > How many times do you get to shoot high towers? with a high 1/4 bird
I have found with High birds = ones that I have to lift my chin to point my eyes /face at it. I tend to notice the bead during the mount.

Also with most dropping shots , the shooter will let his head leave the stock, and end up shooting over most dropping shots.....After the miss the sight picture memory video will let you diagnose the correction sooner with the bead and lots of rib showing in the "flash Memory"
I almost want to get my Shotgun out now

[P.E. Kelley]

My previous post may appear too flippant.

If it was all that easy then I would be a master SC shooter.

I am NOT!

I just play the game when I can.

Patrick

[EkuJustice]

I have always liked the hiviz comp sights on my skeetgun. They arn't big enough to be a total distraction like the clip on/magnetic ones and allow you to actully concentrate more on the target and still see the bead in your peripheral vision to help prevent looking for the bead to "check your lead" A little reference point out there isn't a bad thing as long as thats all it is and not the focus of your attention.

AAA in all 5 guns and HOA

[HSMITH]

There will be times when you need to AIM that shotgun to hit a flying or rolling clay target. You just aim a little differently than what nearly everyone thinks of when you say 'aim'.

[EricW]

P.E. Kelley, on Apr 26 2008, 08:29 AM, said:

So Mr. "E" are you going to shoot the FITASC match? How about the WA state Sporting match at Landt?

Yak at ya soon.

Patrick

Hiya Paddy!

Yup, I plan to shoot both unless work or my eyes intervene. Yak at ya soon, amigo.

===========================================

Hi Will,

Thanks. I got my stock cut down yesterday and that was the *only* change that was necessary besides improving my mount. Wasn't cheap, but now I know the answer. Shooting the pattern board was interesting for lots of reasons. What I thought was "right" was wrong, but what I thought felt "right" but saw/read was wrong, turned out to be "right" after all.

===============================================

And today sucked at the range. Never shoot a tournament after changing EVERYTHING. To cork it all off, all I saw were fuzzy pink mirages for 60 targets.

I'm going totally contrarian. The bead is gone. The left lens of my glasses is taped over. I just did the backyard test and I can keep the target in solid focus this way. Two eyes....all I get is a fuzzy orb. We'll try this combo at 5-stand tomorrow and see if it gets me back on track. So far, I really prefer the gun sans bead. I'm sure that I'm going to pay a price at distance, but we'll just see how much.

[EricW]

I "saw" a clay for the first time today. Maybe ever. I could damned near read the lettering.

I ignored all common wisdom. I completely blacked out the left lens of my glasses. I shot a bare rib. My score was poor because my mount and attention span were poor, but I've never felt so able to observe, adjust and learn while shooting. I went back for 100 more birds just to make sure it really was better.

It was.

It's my first real breakthrough since I started really shooting clays.

[AlamoShooter]

EricW, on Apr 27 2008, 04:00 PM, said:

I "saw" a clay for the first time today. Maybe ever. I could damned near read the lettering.

I ignored all common wisdom. I completely blacked out the left lens of my glasses. I shot a bare rib. My score was poor because my mount and attention span were poor, but I've never felt so able to observe, adjust and learn while shooting. I went back for 100 more birds just to make sure it really was better.

It was.

It's my first real breakthrough since I started really shooting clays.

That is cool, The Rabbits are the easy ones to start on = seeing the rabbit in the center stop at few places.
ONe friend that is a fantastic sporting shooter said that with some shots he sees an instant that the targets "stops" = when that happens he complets the trigger pull.
I have seen that and gotten hits and misses, and gon brain dead looking for it to happen again.
But many shooters do see the target -stop- for mill of a second ,= have you seen that yet?

[Kingman]

yeah uh huh. What is funny is what is winning so far

[EricW]

AlamoShooter, on Apr 27 2008, 05:22 PM, said:

But many shooters do see the target -stop- for mill of a second ,= have you seen that yet?

Nothing has "stopped" that doesn't "stop" normally. What I *did* see was the targets get bigger. That was very cool.

I know that this will be a controversial statement, but a bare rib feels more "precise" to me. All I see is the bird, yet I still have perfect awareness of the gun. I actually feel like I have better awareness and ability to place the gun where needed without ever feeling like I'm aiming the gun.

This post has been edited by EricW: 27 April 2008 - 06:16 PM

[HSMITH]

Eric, you changed something and that lets you be aware of other things you might not have been before. This might be the real deal for you, it might just be the trick of the day. Don't be afraid to change things up once in a while, it won't be until you are a VERY good shotgunner that you know what you need and don't. Keep chasing it, like anything else equipment that fits YOU is big.

[AlamoShooter]

EricW, on Apr 27 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

AlamoShooter, on Apr 27 2008, 05:22 PM, said:

But many shooters do see the target -stop- for mill of a second ,= have you seen that yet?

Nothing has "stopped" that doesn't "stop" normally. What I *did* see was the targets get bigger. That was very cool.

I know that this will be a controversial statement, but a bare rib feels more "precise" to me. All I see is the bird, yet I still have perfect awareness of the gun. I actually feel like I have better awareness and ability to place the gun where needed without ever feeling like I'm aiming the gun.

You have a great cheering section and that is a bigger help than you may know, change is good thing,....So long as you are not chaseing a change all the time.
learning to shoot with and with out the bead will make you a "Stonger" shooter and is a valid tool.
Have you tryed shooting left hand? shooting left hand will teach you a few things too,
I used to shoot a few targets left hand as a teaching aid / trick, to suprise a student in to "opening -up" to seeing things in a new way.

I am left Eye dominate too and I would rather stay home than put tape on my glasses. = what I do for left to right targets is to turn my head a bit to the left so that the target can be seen by my right eye sooner. = Your nose will play a big part in blocking the strong side eye and if the left eye "Grabs" the target = the pass off to the right eye may not happen with a fast target. = So I set up farther to the Left for left to right birds, and I take just a bit longer to shoot the bird than most shooters.

[EricW]

AlamoShooter, on Apr 27 2008, 08:33 PM, said:

\
Have you tryed shooting left hand? shooting left hand will teach you a few things too,

Actually, yes. The 682 E that I bought last fall was deliberately purchased as a lefty. I shot skeet and did OK. Trap was duck soup. I found learning to mount the gun lefty very challenging.

The issue is that my eyes are changing. The eyes that I had last fall are not the eyes I have of today. They will be different six months from now, but probably not as bad as the difference between last year and this. I've resigned to doing whatever I need to do in order to see a target crisply. Today was the first day that I've done that. Many years ago when I was piddling with clays, Brian said, "I don't think you've ever SEEN a target." He was right. Maybe I've had this vision issue all along, maybe not. But, I do have the newfound gift of 20/10+ vision, so I'm going to maximize it. Being able to see the ridges on the target negates the disadvantage of monovision IMO.

I know it sounds corny, but I'm going to do the Lanny Basham trip whole hog. Goal #1 is to simply see every single target as perfectly as I can. I honestly don't care if I have to wear a cheese hat and plaid pants to do it, but I'm going to be a competitive shooter again.

[3GunF1Guy]

Hank Ellis, on Apr 26 2008, 06:07 AM, said:

Assuming we're talking about the Clays sports, I sorta use the beads. Sorta meaning that I use the beads as a quick check that my mount is right, then I ignore them.

Since you don't aim a shotgun, you point it, you can pretty much knock the things off and still bust the frisbees.

+2

Except for some of the long shots like other have said before. FITASC is know for the long hard crossers. If you are going to that match you better be prepared.

Scott

[Tom Freeman]

Beads bad.

Bead check a bird and you will be behind it every time.