[Rob Boudrie]

Subject line says it all - see www.uspsa.org/ezwinscore for details.

[kimel]

What a great idea.

Any keypunching we can take off the load of the stats folks is a good thing. And since that automatically gets all the shooter/stage info ready for target score entry there should be fewer data entry errors.

Is there a suggested barcode scanner device, hopefully USB? Will they be sold through the USPSA store?

The only problem I can foresee is educating the shooters/staff that now there is a specific label for a specific stage. I assume blank labels will be provided that don't have barcode info for reshoots. Waiting for the proper label for a reshoot to arrive from stats would be unacceptable in most situations and I can't see us equipping the RM and/or MD with laptops and label printers to issue reshoot labels.

[EricW]

Acceptable scanners covered here: http://www.uspsa.org...code/index.html

My advice: budget for two scanners.

[Rob Boudrie]

If you follow the link on the ezwinscore page - www.uspsa.org/ezwinscore/barcode you will file answers to most of these questions.

1). I show two barcode readers that have been tested to work and yes, they are USB. These are available from HK (the former British colony, not the German gun company) for about $35, or domestically for about $65. HK mail orders take about 3 weeks. I've ordered 5 so far - 3 arrived working, one was DOA (but the vendor responded promptly and will send a replacement) and I am still waiting for one to arrive.

2). No current plans to sell these via the USPSA store, but that could change. That's a call for Dave Thomas to make.

3). There are two forms of barcode label "Stage specific" that encode the stage number and gun type, and "Generic" - no stage number of gun type. The selected stage and guntype remain unchanged when scanning generic labels so, if you have a pile from one stage, you won't have to re-select the stage number after each scan. Since scoresheets are generally picked up in piles from stages, it will be a call for the MD and stats director to make - is "Stage encoding" worth the extra effort to get stage specific labels on the correct scoresheet?

The stage number and gun type selection boxes in EzWinScore remain active after scanning a barcode to make it very easy to recover from wrong labelitis.

4). All existing data input methods will still be available in EzWinScore. You could even outfit your RO's with a pen and just write the name and competitor number on a scoresheet in the event of a reshoot . This is absolutely no reason why anyone would need to "wait for a replacement label."


If you like this feature you can thank Lee Neal - he goaded me into it by telling me he was using this technique to score IDPA matches, and then sent me a scanner so I didn't have to wait for a slow boat from China.

[Too_Slow]

I rather like the idea of using bar code readers. As far as extra labels for reshoots and such just make specific labels for each stage and also give each competitor a few extra generic labels for reshoots or lost or damaged labels.


Brian


P.S. any idea when 3.03 will be out?

[kimel]

Okay, I looked all over the place for that link before I posted...honest!

Yeah, all previous data entry methods will still be available but how much grumping will stats do?

And Eric, two? That wouldn't leave a spare. I think that you need n+1 where n=# of data entry positions. If n>4 then you need +2.

I wouldn't dream of using this at a Level 1...too much effort and too many walk-ons. But for Level 2 and up? Oh yeah.

[lneel]

I agree with the n+1 for major matches but I have found even the "cheap" $35 scanners to be very reliable.

As to "too much effort and too many walk-ons." for local match...I have found the speed gained by the labels in scoring to far outweigh the pre-work required.

To get around the hassles of walk up shooters I created a dummy match with 100 shooters all named Shooter: ____________. I then print the labels and head to the match. I hand out the appropriate labels to the shooters by shooter number on the sign up list. I then enter the shooters into EZWinscore and use the scanner to get them entered very quickly.

I do agree that major matches will benefit the most though, not only in speed but in accuracy also. With the full barcode labels the scan takes the scorekeeper to the correct shooter and stage. Now if all the people keeping score on the stages would add up the hits it would go even faster!

I am glad to have come up with the idea and thank Rob Boudrie for all the work getting the programming done.

[Jim Norman]

I am not about to trash this as it does not make my job harder, but I wonder what the benefit to other than Level II and above matches really is?

I assume that the clubs that use this have et up a pre-registration? So far for our regular monthly matches we sign-up and squad on the fly. I can't see pre-entry and printing labels as a great time saver. We use one 8-1/2 x 11 scoresheet to score our 7 stage match.

What I'd like to see is a better electronic scoring system, maybe something like a tablet PC that reads off a form that matches a scoresheet and feeds straight into EZwin?

Jim

[Rob Boudrie]

I'm online on 12/25 since the kid and dogs are asleep, and my wife left for work a couple of hours before I woke up.

RE: Local matches

The easiest way to do this is to prepare a dummy match with 100 competitors and prepare labels. If you enable the Palm feature (just set a transfer directory in match setup), even if you don't have a Palm, that will enable the Palm transfer window. You'll find a very useful button on that window "Add Walkins". This button will create 10 walking competitors. Click this 10 times, and you have 100 competitors so you can print out labels.

Now, when people come to the match have them register on a numbered sign-in sheet, and give them the corresponding label set.

When you score the match, start a new database, and register people in the order they appear on the registration sheet making sure the numbers match.

RE: Handheld scoring

"Tablet PC"s and Palms have the same issue - price. The Palm software isn't cheap, but neither would tablet PC's on each stage (even if we did get the software for free). Barcodes are a step towards increased automation that costs almost nothing ($35 one time - and that's per club, not per stage).

RE: Spare Labels

EzWinScore 3.03 will have a convenient "Spare label" feature. Consider a match with 7 stages. Currently, it's common for the stats person to create 3 "dummy stages" so that the stage labels can be printed in groups of 10 (makes it easy to cut a column of 10 labels from a standard 3 column 10 row label sheet). Starting with 3.03, you won't need to define any "dummy stages" just enter the number of spare labels required (3 in this example), and EzWinsScore will generate the stage specific labels plus the number of requested spares for each competitor.

Quote

Yeah, all previous data entry methods will still be available but how much grumping will stats do?

Hopefully none. If you're not using this feature, you'll see an additional checkbox on the label generation and score entry page. If you don't select these boxes, nothing changes.

I don't know when 3.03 will be released, but it will definitely be before the start of the spring shooting season.

[kimel]

Thanks Rob. I am hoping to talk the MDs for a Level II I am involved with in May into using this system. Since my wife is one of the Stats Babes for the match I suspect I have a bit of extra leverage.

[Rob Boudrie]

Quote

Since my wife is one of the Stats Babes for the match I suspect I have a bit of extra leverage.

I'll give you a bit of unsolicited marital advice - a barcode scanner does not fulfill one's obligations for a Valentine's day gift.

[kimel]

Oh crap! There goes THAT idea.

Just searched eBay for the specified part #s and came up dry.

I did find them from a Canadian company via Google at well over $100 CDN over the HK price quoted.

[Rob Boudrie]

Quote

Just searched eBay for the specified part #s and came up dry.

Don't search by part number, use the search string "ccd barcode" - it will give you lots of choices.

The Acan one is the most common and works just fine, however, the Litele seeme to be a bit more nicely built:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

[shootingchef]

I have used the scanners with great success in both IDPA and USPSA. Great time saver over the long haul of a match.

[warpspeed]

The Metrologic Scanners are a good choice as well. A little pricier but they come with a great warranty.

[wgnoyes]

Rob Boudrie, on Dec 25 2007, 08:57 AM, said:

I'm online on 12/25 since the kid and dogs are asleep, and my wife left for work a couple of hours before I woke up.

RE: Local matches

The easiest way to do this is to prepare a dummy match with 100 competitors and prepare labels. If you enable the Palm feature (just set a transfer directory in match setup), even if you don't have a Palm, that will enable the Palm transfer window. You'll find a very useful button on that window "Add Walkins". This button will create 10 walking competitors. Click this 10 times, and you have 100 competitors so you can print out labels.

Now, when people come to the match have them register on a numbered sign-in sheet, and give them the corresponding label set.

When you score the match, start a new database, and register people in the order they appear on the registration sheet making sure the numbers match.

I may try that at the South River match or so!

[John Heiter]

I think our guys have gotten accustomed to bringing the score sheets in and putting stage 1 in a pile, stage 2 in a pile, etc. With them like that, I can easily go to the stage 1 tab and start 10-keying in scores very quickly. As long as they are pre-sorted, the bar code scanner seems to add another step to the process. Flip to the next score sheet, pick up scanner and scan it, put down the scan gun, punch in the scores/times, repeat. I can see that the bar code scanner may enable me to just have a single pile of incoming score sheets and it not matter what stage they are from or how they are mixed, so there may be some benefit there, but I like having them separated by stage because it lets me get into a groove where I know what to expect/look for on each stage. Maybe one stage is Virginia count and I need to be especially on the lookout for extra shots/hits or maybe another has so no-penalty disappearing targets, etc. Of course, everyone may handle things differently so this may be of huge benefit to a lot of folks and the most important thing is I really do appreciate Rob's attitude of constantly trying to improve the program so keep it up guys.

Thanks!

[Rob Boudrie]

Quote

Flip to the next score sheet, pick up scanner and scan it, put down the scan gun, punch in the scores/times, repeat.

As opposed to: "Flip to next score sheet, read in competitor number, type competitor number in and hit enter; check competitor name that comes up against score sheet to make sure the correct competitor was selected, punch in scores/times, repeat".

Of course, if you skip that part about "check to competitor name to make sure it matches score sheet" you can save a bit of time .

[lneel]

Set the scanner so it is always on and hanging off the edge of the table. Set your scoresheets in a pile below, pick one up and drag it past the scanner. All you have to do then is enter the hits and grab the next one. Get it setup for a fluid motion and I assure you if you have more than 20 shooters it will make a big difference. Alos, be sure to use the + and * shortcut keys if you don't already. They help alot as well.

Lee Neel

[dfwmiket]

lneel, on Dec 26 2007, 06:33 PM, said:

Set the scanner so it is always on and hanging off the edge of the table. Set your scoresheets in a pile below, pick one up and drag it past the scanner. All you have to do then is enter the hits and grab the next one. Get it setup for a fluid motion and I assure you if you have more than 20 shooters it will make a big difference. Alos, be sure to use the + and * shortcut keys if you don't already. They help alot as well.

Lee Neel

Lee has been kind enough to set this up for our club and do our scoring lately. It really IS the coolest thing.

-Mike

[wgnoyes]

Rob Boudrie, on Dec 26 2007, 06:22 PM, said:

Quote

Flip to the next score sheet, pick up scanner and scan it, put down the scan gun, punch in the scores/times, repeat.

As opposed to: "Flip to next score sheet, read in competitor number, type competitor number in and hit enter; check competitor name that comes up against score sheet to make sure the correct competitor was selected, punch in scores/times, repeat".

Of course, if you skip that part about "check to competitor name to make sure it matches score sheet" you can save a bit of time .

And for the latter, that's why you've added a cmdbutton to the score entry form to erase an already-entered score (that you put in for the wrong person) so the system thinks it's never been entered in the first place!

This post has been edited by wgnoyes: 27 December 2007 - 07:50 AM

[jjlefty51]

Sounds great.

[Catfish]

cnemikeman, on Dec 26 2007, 06:41 PM, said:

lneel, on Dec 26 2007, 06:33 PM, said:

Set the scanner so it is always on and hanging off the edge of the table. Set your scoresheets in a pile below, pick one up and drag it past the scanner. All you have to do then is enter the hits and grab the next one. Get it setup for a fluid motion and I assure you if you have more than 20 shooters it will make a big difference. Alos, be sure to use the + and * shortcut keys if you don't already. They help alot as well.

Lee Neel

Lee has been kind enough to set this up for our club and do our scoring lately. It really IS the coolest thing.

-Mike

+100

[Jim Norman]

Maybe what is needed is a "Best Practices" list of how to score a small, medium and large match?

In other words, how do "YOU" find it best and we can compare notes.

Me, I set up the match, I then populate the match with the shooters and then I enter each shooters scores for the entire match. THis is how we do the local match. Often stages are not 100% carved in stone until match day and we honestly don't know who will be shooting till match day.

For our annual Multi-Gun, I tried both stage sheets and matcch sheets. Both worked OK, the benefit there is that we know who is registered to shoot before the match, so we can use the squadding function as well as pre-loading the shooters.

I do use the short-cut keys. I do wish that the order of penalties was different. ie., A-B-C-D-Miss-N/S-Proc-NPM and then any stage specifics such as extra shot, extra hit. that way the items, at least to me, would flow better.

Jim

[Alan Meek]

Jim,

What are you using for score sheet design?

The score sheet design should match the data entry flow. (of course you knew that already)

Alan

This post has been edited by Alan Meek: 27 December 2007 - 08:17 AM