[Kimberkid]

I have recently noticed a couple of cheap O/U's and hoping ya'll can answer some stuff for me


Are there any O/U's under $600 worth owning? I keep seeing Remington 310's and Mossberg Silver Pigeon (i think) around in the $400 to $500 range. Are these total junk? What is the difference between a $400 Remington and a $1200 Beretta?

I could care less about asthetics, plain crappy wood and no fancy metal work is fine. This wont see any use beyond some informal Skeet and hand trap. Probably less than 500 rounds a year. Any suggestions that would fit my needs?

I am now using a very worn Browning Citori. Anything that matches the ergonomics with a lower price tag? I dont want anything that aint worth the trouble, but I dont wanna pay for appearance or top end performance when I wont use it. What is the O/U version of the butt ugly Glock workhorse?? Any lower end models to avoid like the plague?

Thanks a ton for the replies.

[AlamoShooter]

Why not keep useing the Browning?
A frinend just picked up a Mos 20 & 28 combo at the cheep price and likes it fine for rough bird hunting. = did not want to take out his Bereta 12 in the brush.
He is a good sporting shooter and better hunter so he could hit with most any thing. I swung it a bit and it is not like the some of the crap I have seen in imported in years past.

[EricW]

Considering the issues people have had with barrel regulation on the "budget" $2-3K Italian O/U's, it's hard to believe the super-cheap Turkish ones will fare much better. I'd fix the Citori. What's wrong with it? If the action is popping open when you shoot, it could be as simple as a $3 top lever spring.

Barring repairing your Citori, seriously consider simply buying another used one. I see 28" fixed-choke Citoris for $800 all the time in Guns America.

[Kimberkid]

I should have explained more. The Citori isnt mine. It is on long term loan from my Grandfather to my brother and I. My bro is moving and would like to take it with him. When little brother wants something, big brother makes it happen. So, in short, I'd like another O/U to replace it, while spending as little money as possible.

I have trouble fighting the feeling that if all the fitting and measurements are the same, then the guns should shoot very similiarly. I am not a shotgun guy at all, so I have clue if that is true, but it seems to make sense to me.

I dont do much shotgunning, so I had thought I would get a cheap one now, and if I get more active, drop bigger bucks later after I know what I want. Kinda like shooting a Glock for a year and if I love IPSC then buying an S_I. If there isnt a cheap one worth having then Ill just wait a little longer and get another Citori.

[Irishlad]

Quote

What is the O/U version of the butt ugly Glock workhorse??

That's the Browning Citori line and Beretta 686 series.
They are machine made guns designed to be reliable and durable, and "rebuild-able" fairly cheaply.
And they both have a "sense" of what people want in clay target shotguns, i.e. balance, weight, stock dimensions, etc. The "Glock" of O/U shotguns cost $1500-$2500. The custom 1911's of O/U's cost $7500-$10,000... Perazzi/Kreighoff.

Honestly, I don't have enough experience with a $500 O/U.

I'd handle them and if you can live with it, after "knowing" the Browning, then I'd probably pick one with a warranty and a company that backs them up. Your not shooting many rounds per year so durability is not an issue...but! You can also wait and buy a used Browning. Perhaps a Ruger.
SKB is well made for the money...used.

You didn't ask, but $500 can buy you a very good new/used auto like a Remington 1100.

[PJ BAD]

FInd another good used Browning. There are lots of them for sale. The best trap gun I ever owned was a used Citori I bought from Shotgun News. I shot that gun better than my Perazzi.

[Kimberkid]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Irish, I did handle a Mossberg O/U at Walmart the other day, just cause I had never seen one there. I was kinda suprised in that it looked totally fine. Standard cheesy wood and nothing special for metalwork, but looked serviceable. That is what prompts this topic. I am just hoping to find something that is all function and no frills whatsoever.

Again, not being a shotgun guy it is hard to see a mechanical difference that would make one a $400 gun and another a $10,000 gun.

As for going with an auto or pump, I already have an 1100, several 870's, and an Auto 5. I just kinda prefer an O/U for clay birds. This is a real informal thing, and in no way integral to my life as a shooter. Kinda like a kid looking for his first deer rifle, dont need the best, just good enough. If it turns out that I have to spend $1k to get anything that is worth owning then I will probably just do without. However, if I can get something that is good enough, I will.

[AlamoShooter]

I would like to see you get one any place but at Hillary's or Wall mart.
The $400 gun will have (extractors) and Not ejectors = that means after you shoot you will have to lift each shell out of the chamber. good for hunting so that you don't have to chase the empty shells to keep the cows from eating them.
cost less to build so the cost stays down on the gun.
At $400 you could use it as a door stop if you were not using it. It will not swing the same as a better gun and will take more effort to get it on the birds Clay or real. But IF you could find a used Ctiory for $800 that would be the first one I have seen at that price in over 15 years. I have one that has had the snott shot out of it and shot so hot many times it would burn your hand. I would never take less than a new gun to replace the one I have. In fact I purchased a new one and Like my old one better.
But I don't know nothing.
Get what you will be happy with next year and five years form now. $400 is cheep but something you are happy with is a better buy, even if you have to wait. Try setting the $400 a side Like in a clear baggy in the safe and see how long you can be happy with out a shot-gun every other month put an extra $100 in the bag for what you would have spent shooting a gun that you were not all that happy to have.
Shooting the thing is what adds up Like putting gas in truck that the heater and A/C does not work and you have to ride around cold or hot. Still cost you the same to get there, you get there a bit happier

[tightloop]

Like my Granddad told me...buy the best you can afford and don't look back...

[Slowhand]

I shoot a Browning Citori and a Beretta 686. I looked at most of the "cheap" O/U
when I was hot for .410. I would do as others have suggested and find a used Citori.
If your interest in shotgunning cools you can sell the used Browning without taking
a beating.

[Irishlad]

Quote

I just kinda prefer an O/U for clay birds.

I agree and makes sense.

The mechanical differences of "inexpensive" O/U's compared to "target grade" are supposed to be reliability and durability. That usually comes about with "known" producers and designs that have been around a long time. Important since target shooters can shoot more rounds in one week than a very casual shooter or hunter will shoot in several years or more.

Other mechanical differences would include ribs staying on, barrels that can pattern pretty well, close POI for two barrels, etc. Trigger pulls are generally better, but not critical. Smooth operation of the top lever, ejectors work, safeties, etc. And, the ability to get parts and fixed if needed.

But, things change and for the "usage" you are looking for, it's very possible some of these cheaper O/U's coming from Russia and Turkey can work for it's "intended usage". I really don't know so I'd rumage around some of the shotgun forums and see what they say, people that have bought them and fired them more than a box of shells. Turkey seems to have a lot of shotguns coming in. S&W is opening a plant there I believe. Kimber's shotguns are turkish also I believe.

I do understand what you are saying as I remember looking at a Verona, and it "looked" pretty good to me for the price. For a gun that may never see 5,000-10,000 rounds, you have to be thinking "why not"? So, I'd "hedge my bets" and buy from a well known company that has a warranty, i.e. Mossberg or Remington for example.

If you don't want to hedge your bets, buy a used Browning similiar to what you have been shooting.

Good luck and sorry, not much help.

[Kimberkid]

Thanks a lot for all the replies guys. Been looking a little more and stumbled onto some CZ's that look good also. I will be on the lookout for a used Citori also. Any more advice?

I am also a big fan of buying the best I can afford, however, this is not at all a priority and cash flow is low right now. It aint gonna bother me much if I have to do nothing and go without, just would like to find something worthwhile if I can

[Kimberkid]

Btw, just realized I might wanna let ya'll know more specifics...

Decided that I want the following features:

-Manual Safeties, or none at all
-Manual extractors, preferrably no ejectors
-26" barrels, tho will settle for 28" if I have to
-screw in chokes of common availability, not some wierd thread size
-must have vent rib, prefferably with a mid bead or option to add one


any suggestions?

[tightloop]

You have a long list of wants considering you are looking at a 400 O/U....good luck on that...

[JD45]

Fix the Citori.

A friend of mine once had his Citori's entire receiver hard-chromed(satin), and it looked great. I may have mine done when it gets ugly.

[AlamoShooter]

If you still think you want a 26" IO .... you have not shot enoph to know better yet and OR you are shoting around a very old and out of shape Skeet croud a 28" will be more "forgiving" of a bad move and a 30" is even better.
The 26" is nice for long field walks but will hold you down on being able to shoot dif Clay games like five stand or a sporting field. Its enoph of a handicap that on a field cours I would rather shoot a 28 gage with a 28" barrel than a 12 gage with a 26"
lotts of clubs have "loner" guns or "Try" guns that you can shoot some sets with before you decide what to buy.
and A good instructor will have several guns that you can "Try"
Oh if you doubt the 30" gun ... I did a quick lesson with one of the Forum members small girl barrly tips the scale at 99bl. AKA "Tithefly" in 1 1/2 hrs she was shooting my 30" from a low ready and hitting 80%

This post has been edited by AlamoShooter: 19 November 2007 - 11:42 AM

[Kimberkid]

Thanks guys again for everything.

I have found models from Mossberg, Remington, CZ and Charles Daly that all fit my criteria for about $600 off the rack. Any features I should stay away from?

I had assumed 26" barrels would swing better for Skeet, but if they are really that much more punishing, then 28" is the way I will go. That was more of an assumption than a learned preference. Have mostly shot 28" and 30" guns in the past.

[Dave Gundry]

I was in that same boat this spring... After looking at all the Stoeger/Baikal, Mossberg, CZ, etc options, I picked up a '93 Special Sporting Citori for $900 that was in great shape other than some bluing wear on the bottom of the receiver and on the top lever.

Check the ads at your local clubs and maybe even throw a few wanted ads on their bulletin boards - used Citori's are out there. Plus, they'll hold their value very, very well, if not 100% (for at least a few years) if you buy used. Buying and selling a cheap O/U will result in at least a $100 hit.

I shot a BC Miroku Charles Daly 12ga 26" skeet gun for years. My Citori is a 30". There is no way I'd ever buy a <28" gun again if it is EVER going to see skeet/trap/clays duty. The longer barrels are MUCH more forgiving and MUCH more versatile. edit - my gun sees ~95% skeet duty, 5% trap (the local club doesn't have SC).

As they say, "Citori's wear in while the others wear out." (referring to the locking mechanisms) - sounds snobby, but it is true for the most part.

This post has been edited by Krautwagen: 19 November 2007 - 01:15 PM

[Slowhand]

I am a long time bird hunter and an occasional skeet shooter. Having
said that, I know enough about shooting clays to tell you AlamoShooter
has given you some very good advice.

Irrespective of shotgun brand you want to shoot at least a 28" barrel. If
the O/U will be used exclusively for clays you would do well to try out a
30" gun. Go to the range and observe the better shooters.You will likely
see very few 26" shotguns in any configuration.

[EricW]

My advice is the same after all this: cool your jets, head to www.gunsamerica.com and see if you can find a used Citori for only a few dollars more than your budget. You will be MUCH happier 20 years from now. Trying to bargain-basement a clays gun is short-sighted IMO.

P.S.

26 and 28" Citoris are real bargains right now. Everybody's hot for 32" guns. Fixed chokes? Even cheaper.

This post has been edited by EricW: 19 November 2007 - 01:25 PM

[P.E. Kelley]

EricW, on Nov 19 2007, 02:23 PM, said:

My advice is the same after all this: cool your jets, head to www.gunsamerica.com and see if you can find a used Citori for only a few dollars more than your budget. You will be MUCH happier 20 years from now. Trying to bargain-basement a clays gun is short-sighted IMO.

P.S.

26 and 28" Citoris are real bargains right now. Everybody's hot for 32" guns. Fixed chokes? Even cheaper.

Good info here. Not a thing wrong with fixed chokes. Don't be afraid of Mod/Full or Full/Full unless you betting a buck a bird on the skeet field.
If you are ON nothing but smoke! If you off YOU ARE off.

Some bargains are to be had in the Full/Full no steel shot selection of O/U's

Rarely are we upset about buying the best.


Patrick

[EricW]

Here's a classic example:

http://www.gunsameri...2ga_3_1_2in.htm

$850 for a really nice Citori with the good invector plus, chokes, AND 3 1/2" chambers. If I was in the market for another Citori, I'd be dropping the dime on that in a heartbeat. That is the perfect all around shotgun right there. It'll do everything from clays to geese and do it in style. And you don't have so much wrapped into it that you cry at the first barbed-wire scratch.

If I wasn't spending money on camera gear and computers right now, I'd probably have that thing in the mail tomorrow. I can't even imagine messing with a CZ or anything else for the tiny amount of extra money for a Citori. I'll bet that the top lever still sits way to the right too.

[BigDave]

You might try looking at these guys. There's an early model Citori for $695. They know shotguns.

[Hank Ellis]

I'm in negotiation right now on a Franchi model 2005 combo gun. 34" full choke trap single barrel with a 32" imp mod/full OU all in a well used but serviceable leather case. Got a couple of small cosmetic issues but will do the job. $600. It's pretty much a done deal. Just want to shoot a couple more boxes out of it once some stock adjustments are made to be sure.

When it comes to the clays sports I'd rather have a used quality gun than a new cheap gun. Take the advice on a used Citori. If this deal hadn't come along I'd be going that route. And post a WTB at the clays club. There is always someone wanting to unload his old gun when he upgrades to a Zoli or Perazzi.

[Irishlad]

I'd read through www.shotgunworld.com and see what you find.

Almost all brands are covered and you can get a "sense" of what may or may not work for you.