[Jake Di Vita]

Here is a discussion between Flex and I that we figured would spark a interesting discussion.

TheItlianStalion (1:15:38 AM): ya know...i really think you if got into it heavily, you could be a threat to win nats
FLEXMONEY (1:15:56 AM): I like my mental game
TheItlianStalion (1:16:35 AM): i think its one of the best in the sport
FLEXMONEY (1:16:18 AM): it carries me often...
FLEXMONEY (1:16:36 AM): and every now and then I get right into...the zone
TheItlianStalion (1:17:21 AM): yep
FLEXMONEY (1:17:09 AM): what is hurting me is the lack of shooting
TheItlianStalion (1:17:31 AM): usually whenever you say "lets try it"
TheItlianStalion (1:17:32 AM): yeah
FLEXMONEY (1:17:16 AM): it has caught up to me
TheItlianStalion (1:18:00 AM): a good tight dry fire routine and some religious live fire will get you right in there
FLEXMONEY (1:18:00 AM): yeah...I need that to get back...to build the trust
TheItlianStalion (1:18:21 AM): exactly
TheItlianStalion (1:18:40 AM): i was thinking about it the other day.....(shooter's name edited) skill with your mental game = a new world champion
TheItlianStalion (1:19:02 AM): i think he is technically superior to eric....eric just expects to win
FLEXMONEY (1:18:58 AM): hmmm....Fry Frenchy
TheItlianStalion (1:19:20 AM): heh
TheItlianStalion (1:19:39 AM): and more than that...eric knows he has earned the win
FLEXMONEY (1:19:24 AM): he talks about Frenchy too much for my taste
TheItlianStalion (1:19:46 AM): in what way?
FLEXMONEY (1:20:16 AM): he talked about the WS and "you know who"
TheItlianStalion (1:20:35 AM): right
FLEXMONEY (1:20:32 AM): i just read another reference to that in Front Sight
FLEXMONEY (1:20:45 AM): wasn't said by him, but likely originated from him
TheItlianStalion (1:21:08 AM): k
TheItlianStalion (1:21:13 AM): just building eric up?
FLEXMONEY (1:21:03 AM): maybe he doesn't...that is just the feel i get
FLEXMONEY (1:21:29 AM): yeah...why focus on Eric...why focus on the external
TheItlianStalion (1:21:52 AM): the thing with him is he is not the same shooting physically as he is in his self image
TheItlianStalion (1:22:01 AM): and he excels in spite of this still
TheItlianStalion (1:22:06 AM): but could be much much better
FLEXMONEY (1:22:01 AM): he can shoot
TheItlianStalion (1:22:20 AM): at a match he walked me through the first day
TheItlianStalion (1:22:35 AM): and really thought he would have to shoot great to beat me
TheItlianStalion (1:22:48 AM): and of course he blew me out of the water
TheItlianStalion (1:22:54 AM): but i really dont think he knew he would do that
TheItlianStalion (1:23:00 AM): i get the feeling like he was enrvous
TheItlianStalion (1:23:06 AM): and thats the wrong way to look at it
FLEXMONEY (1:22:57 AM): well..there is a good example...one that BE talked about in his book
TheItlianStalion (1:23:22 AM): the lion mentality....go up there knowing your the f*#&$* king
TheItlianStalion (1:23:29 AM): k
FLEXMONEY (1:23:31 AM): BE mentioned how he watched some shooter nail a stage...
FLEXMONEY (1:23:47 AM): then, that made him nervous and second guess a bit b4 he shot
FLEXMONEY (1:24:23 AM): when...in the reality of it...you never can tell what the stage..or match..will be like until you are in it to experience it
TheItlianStalion (1:24:48 AM): exactly
FLEXMONEY (1:24:45 AM): kinda..pre-judging
TheItlianStalion (1:25:08 AM): every match is different, and to try and predict it takes your focus away from performing in it
FLEXMONEY (1:25:01 AM): right
TheItlianStalion (1:25:40 AM): and i think all that stems from a confidence issue
TheItlianStalion (1:25:54 AM): from that hour of practice you neglected to do at 1 AM
FLEXMONEY (1:25:40 AM): I think peak performance in allowed to happen when an indivisual has an internal focus
TheItlianStalion (1:26:04 AM): yeah
TheItlianStalion (1:26:24 AM): unless you truly believe you are prepared for the match fully, your thoughts will always gravitate to self doubt
FLEXMONEY (1:26:41 AM): yeah...there is that, for sure
FLEXMONEY (1:26:56 AM): but...let's seperate that a bit
FLEXMONEY (1:27:21 AM): if will have (bassham terms)...your skills circle
FLEXMONEY (1:27:36 AM): ...whatever it may be for the moment in time...
FLEXMONEY (1:28:13 AM): the mental circle that goes with that (ok...a little drift from bassham)...
FLEXMONEY (1:28:51 AM): if that circle is big, then you can perform to the levbel of your skills set
TheItlianStalion (1:29:13 AM): right
FLEXMONEY (1:29:12 AM): and, that may means excepting that your skill set isn't 100%
TheItlianStalion (1:29:44 AM): the question is....how does one increase the size of the circle and then maintain it through a match or season
FLEXMONEY (1:29:53 AM): your skill set may be 90%...but if you aren't there mentally...then you cna't even approach that 90%
TheItlianStalion (1:30:18 AM): right
TheItlianStalion (1:30:34 AM): your mental fortitude acts as a barrier on your skills if it isnt 100%
FLEXMONEY (1:30:53 AM): so...if you are focused exteranlly...worried..wondering...trying...that level of your skill set won't be achieved
TheItlianStalion (1:31:51 AM): so basically every conscious thought you have outside of your own performance is limiting
FLEXMONEY (1:32:29 AM): who knows if he can beat frenchy..who knows how good he is when frenchy is around...because he has a bit of frenchy on his mind...which means he is trying
TheItlianStalion (1:33:02 AM): right
TheItlianStalion (1:33:21 AM): its almost like the more you think about a competitor, the more power you give him
TheItlianStalion (1:33:38 AM): and everyone's mind is always on the french kid "who hasnt lost for 9 years"
FLEXMONEY (1:33:58 AM): right...in our game...our competitor doesn't need any space in our head
FLEXMONEY (1:34:06 AM): how can there be room for that
FLEXMONEY (1:34:48 AM): if we are letting frenchy in...there who is going to let our shooting in
TheItlianStalion (1:35:24 AM): right
TheItlianStalion (1:35:49 AM): its almost as if you let your top gear transfer from you to eric because all of a sudden you are limited by his prescence
FLEXMONEY (1:35:50 AM): like you said...you give the other guy the power..
FLEXMONEY (1:36:12 AM): or...really...you are taking power away from yourself
TheItlianStalion (1:36:52 AM): right....and because he is the most prepared shooter there it is going directly to him
FLEXMONEY (1:38:14 AM): well...whatever you give up...just brings you down from your potential, i think
FLEXMONEY (1:38:31 AM): your competition...they got their own problems.
TheItlianStalion (1:38:56 AM): yeah
FLEXMONEY (1:39:01 AM): i don't like to think of them as being better prepared or not
FLEXMONEY (1:39:06 AM): I'd rather not think of them
TheItlianStalion (1:39:38 AM): of course
TheItlianStalion (1:39:54 AM): im really looking forward to checking out tiger's book
FLEXMONEY (1:40:07 AM): I'm not thinking I am giving away to them...so much as setting my limit
TheItlianStalion (1:40:37 AM): k
TheItlianStalion (1:41:28 AM): so you think your gonna get back into shooting heavily at any point?
FLEXMONEY (1:41:20 AM): one trick i like is to think..."if that ass-hole can do it...so can I"
TheItlianStalion (1:41:43 AM): heh yeah
FLEXMONEY (1:41:30 AM): but...even that is limiting
TheItlianStalion (1:42:12 AM): because your performance is then limited to his peak
FLEXMONEY (1:42:04 AM): it's a focus on what you know is possible...on what is supposed to happen
FLEXMONEY (1:42:10 AM): right..
FLEXMONEY (1:42:29 AM): as opposed to focusing on the execution of your game
FLEXMONEY (1:43:34 AM): I think somebody jsut talked about this on the forum recently...
FLEXMONEY (1:44:02 AM): about limiting yourself by what you program or visualize
TheItlianStalion (1:44:26 AM): heh yeah
TheItlianStalion (1:44:53 AM): it seems like any thought that is made is inherently limiting because thought cannot take place in the present
FLEXMONEY (1:44:54 AM): yeah...
FLEXMONEY (1:45:07 AM): I can visualize a perfect shot or a perfect run...
FLEXMONEY (1:45:20 AM): and...as I execute that...
FLEXMONEY (1:45:26 AM): what is the best I can do ?
TheItlianStalion (1:45:58 AM): what you visualized as perfect
TheItlianStalion (1:46:39 AM): and that then limits the creativity you attain by shooting in the zone
FLEXMONEY (1:46:31 AM): yeah...if i execute the plan perfectly...i am still limited by the plan

[AikiDale]

Tuco has the answer.

[Flexmoney]

that made a lot more sense as we were going through it in real time. lol

[Jake Di Vita]

Haha yeah it did. I'm still pretty happy with it though.

[Pat Harrison]

Jake Di Vita, on Sep 12 2007, 02:00 AM, said:

Here is a discussion between Flex and I that we figured would spark a interesting discussion.

Where was this and why wasn't I invited

[Alan Meek]

This brings back a conversation I had with John Dixon from Texas while we were at a Steel Challenge. In fact it was the year the Jethro "The Jet" Dionisio won the challenge.

We were discussing how to the majority of competitors the matches were just as much a "Social Activity" as a competition. He pointed out that after most competitors were finished shooting a stage they would hang out in the sponsors tent or watch other competitors shoot. While Jethro would be sequestered in the motor home at the range and only would come out on his way to his next stage to shoot.

[XRe]

Hey, BTW, what's an Itlian Stallion??

[Alan Meek]

Not the "Italian Stallion" story again

[Merlin Orr]

"so...if you are focused exteranlly...worried..wondering...trying...that level of your skill set won't be achieved "

Me.

[XRe]

XRe, on Sep 12 2007, 08:09 PM, said:

Hey, BTW, what's an Itlian Stallion??

Actually, I should say what tickled me about it.... In between Dallas and Hillsborough on IH-35 is a town called Italy, TX. 'Cept the folks from around there pronounce it like a "proper Texan" - "It-Lee"... Jake either typo'ed his handle, or couldn't put the whole string in due to a program limitation... but it got me wondering if an Itlian Stallion didn't come from right up the road...

Funny to see that some parts of that conversation resemble conversations I've had with my buds, too...

[Jake Di Vita]

Program limitation. What did you think of the discussion?

[Nik Habicht]

I was just thinking --- after a passing but less than stellar performance on the first exam --- that my mental game and and my willingness to work as hard as I need to to achieve satisfactory results, are what's going to get me through nursing school. We're only in the third week --- and I'm already so grateful for the lessons learned in IPSC, because this is a little like going to an unending Nationals with Robbie and Dave Sevigny and Max Michel and Chris Tilley as your instructors.....

That discussion's actually clarifying something I've been mulling over for the last few days --- my mental game exceeds my skills/knowledge by quite a bit. I'm stepping up the dryfire and livefire, to bring them into harmony.....

Thanks for sharing!

[benos]

Quote

TheItlianStalion (1:44:53 AM): it seems like any thought that is made is inherently limiting because thought cannot take place in the present
FLEXMONEY (1:44:54 AM): yeah...
FLEXMONEY (1:45:07 AM): I can visualize a perfect shot or a perfect run...
FLEXMONEY (1:45:20 AM): and...as I execute that...
FLEXMONEY (1:45:26 AM): what is the best I can do ?
TheItlianStalion (1:45:58 AM): what you visualized as perfect
TheItlianStalion (1:46:39 AM): and that then limits the creativity you attain by shooting in the zone
FLEXMONEY (1:46:31 AM): yeah...if i execute the plan perfectly...i am still limited by the plan

That's heavy stuff.

Read the first sentence again, after the last... and that might shed some light on the darkness of thinking.

Is there a relationship between a verbal plan and a purely visual plan?

There cannot be, if the visual plan is purely visual. In pure visualization, time is not involved. Which is why, when conditions are right and a pure visualization manifests as pure physical activity, a sense of passing time is not felt by the "experiencer."

If your visual plan is perfect then there's nothing else you can or need to do.
be

[XRe]

Jake Di Vita, on Sep 12 2007, 09:46 PM, said:

What did you think of the discussion?

I agree with BE, the last bits there are good stuff... The part that bakes my noodle is the application of it. I found a tendency at the Open Nats this year to end up in this state of over thinking things, once I got behind just a taste. I recognized it after struggling for almost two days and 11 or so stages worth of shooting. I ended up right back in that nice spot of "identify, pick a route, burn in the plan, and execute" and shot much better for the last 5 stages.

But... even that is limiting - its stuck in the comfort zone, repeating what I already know I can do. It got me thinking about, what if I could back off further than that? How far back from analyzing the stage could I go, before I reach that point where I'm not prepared to shoot the stage, cause I don't even know what's out there? I've played with this some in local matches afterwards, and there's definitely a point where the energy level gets lost as well as the confident feeling of "owning" the stage - simply because I cannot recall clearly in my head what the stage looks like. There's a fine line, though, into going into obsessive over analysis....

In the down time I'm in right now, I've thought about this some, and I'm at something of an impass on it right now, so I've just kind of stopped being concerned with it. This thread brought a little of that back - I still don't have an answer, but I'm not sure I even know the question, or if I'm even supposed to know it... So, I've started working on other areas of my game Things I can take positive steps towards right now...

If you guys have any thoughts on that brain dump, I'm all ears

The other thing that I note in the conversation that BE doesn't touch on (or maybe I'm missing his intent) is the notion of inherent limitation in even visualization. If you visualize it purely - no thought - and execute that vision to the nth degree... Is it possible that you limited your performance by sort of undercutting it with your visualization??? That's one of those "there is no spoon" kind of questions....

The first half of the conversation, though... examining a third shooter's attitude about a fourth shooter, and noting that the 3rd shooter could win if he'd just stop renting the 4th guy space in his head... I think I've had that exact same conversation with a couple people right now, about that same 4th guy (and quite possibly the 3rd, as well), and also about different guys entirely I was just mentioning to another shooter on this forum that I take an attitude of "no one is special", as far as this game goes. I will sometimes stand in awe at the beauty of a particular performance, and I respect the talent, skill, and dedication of those who excel at this game - but they're not superhuman, and given the right amount of the right work, I can be there too...

Anyway... heh heh... you asked

(edited to insert an additional thought....)

This post has been edited by XRe: 13 September 2007 - 10:13 PM

[Flexmoney]

I'll throw a bit more out.

I'm not sure what analogy to go after first.

Anderson, as he took up motorcycle riding, shared some thoughts that he found in a book on that activity.

Hmmm...how to put that...

Lets say you have a storage tank full of mental energy or attention. Newer shooters might need to draw 60% of that attention to hold the gun and line the sights up...another 30% to actuate the trigger properly. Pretty soon, their tank is running empty.

As a shooter advances in skill, he doesn't need to tap the tank very much for those skills. That leaves more in the attention tank for other things.

(OK....I'm not liking how that is coming out, and I'm too tired to tweak it. So, I'm going to abandon it. )

-----------------------

Quote

The part that bakes my noodle is the application of it

Execute.
Just shoot.

Ask yourself how that bakes your noodle. (Your thoughts are the only thing in your way.)

When you hear the above words (or whatever words work for you), where does your head go?

What hurdles do we put in our own path? How do we hold ourselves back?

If you're clear of purpose...then no matter your skill level...you will perform to your current ability.

But, if you tell yourself to 'execute'...and your head goes somewhere else with that thought (gotta hit the reload, etc.)...then you have internal conflict, not clarity of purpose.

Quote

...end up in this state of over thinking things, once I got behind just a taste.

It's pretty clear where the noodle is at there.

and the fix:

Quote

...nice spot of "identify, pick a route, burn in the plan, and execute" and shot much better for the last 5 stages.

Quote

But... even that is limiting - its stuck in the comfort zone, repeating what I already know I can do.

What if we were in that comfort place as much as possible? Which means...no worries. (It doesn't mean holding back and limiting.) What if we are comfortable and performing at a high level...? What if we had that clarity or purpose...? Wouldn't that allow us to be open ? Wouldn't we then slip into that magical 'zone' from time to time? Couldn't we allow ourselves to be in position for that?

[Jake Di Vita]

I like the part of the attention tank.

It also seems that the less the attention tank is needed, the more often you get into the zone. Hence another reason why you shoot stages you are comfortable in so much more efficiently. It seems that unless your sub conscious mind can control all the adaptions required to shoot a stage, you will never enter the zone because thoughts will be focused on a certain point in the stage (the part you are uncomfortable with) rather than allowing the input of your surroundings to be processed.

Brian,

I have the same question as XRe.

What I get from it is that you are saying in true visualization time is no longer a factor so you will automatically perform the task as quickly as your current skill level allows you?

[Pat Harrison]

Unless acted upon by an outside influence...like trying

[Pat Harrison]

I'll expand on that. I've noticed while dryfiring that if I visualize in great detail the motion for a reload with no thought of time, only on making the precise motion and pick up the key points (grip mag properly, motion to mag release, regrip gun, eye on mag well, seat mag regrip with support hand) I can then go ahead and do some dry reloads at speed and have no issues...unless I try to go fast, then I will pitch a mag across the room. When I do my stage walkthrough, I will follow this and do a precise walkthrough, again not paying attention to time or speed, and make sure that I don't miss anything. Every motion is precise, from foot placement to reloads, and not shooting activation (doors etc.) and trust that when the beep sounds, I will perform at my natural speed, whatever that level is at the time

[XRe]

Pat Harrison, on Sep 14 2007, 07:09 AM, said:

Unless acted upon by an outside influence...like trying

Trying is thinking - and is already covered above, though.... I think Jake and I are talking about an absence of that influence

ETA - Flex, I need a little more time than I have right now to respond...

This post has been edited by XRe: 14 September 2007 - 09:38 AM

[Pat Harrison]

What I get from it is that you are saying in true visualization time is no longer a factor so you will automatically perform the task as quickly as your current skill level allows you?


I was replying to this statement

[benos]

Jake Di Vita, on Sep 13 2007, 11:57 PM, said:

What I get from it is that you are saying in true visualization time is no longer a factor so you will automatically perform the task as quickly as your current skill level allows you?

That's it.

Thought is time. Both of which are useful for many things, except when maximum physical performance is desired.

What's next relates to IPSC shooting, not to timed events like the Bianchi Cup.
If you try to include time in a visual plan, the time-relationship between what actually happened and what you visualized seldom corresponds.

If you can just clearly visualize everything you want to happen - without any thought whatsoever - there's a pretty good chance that it will. And it will happen as fast as you are currently capable of doing it. Because, in general, if you are an IPSC shooter, you do not need to think about speed in order to "shoot fast." You will, naturally. Because you're an IPSC shooter. Let that really sink in. Thinking about time is a waste of your mental shooting energy.
be

[eerw]

so does that get back to trust???

what I think I mean is
if you trust your speed..then the thought of going fast or slow will not enter into your visualizatilon..as you already know you will go..so then you will be allow yourself to go what your skill level will allow..


the only reason I am thinking this..is that on a classifier I shot a month or so ago..with a lot of no shoots on it..
I had a sense of calm doing my LAMR. I thought you will shoot as I need to shoot..just monitor the front sight..my visualization was to see the frontsight settle and then lift..with no other action or process from me to make that happen..just see it settle and lift.

I ended shooting a 100% classifier that felt no faster or slower than anything else I have shot..but I began to firm up the trust that I have in skills of shooting.

just wondering

[Jake Di Vita]

I don't think trust is what causes it, but I do think no trust prevents it. For pure visualization the actual actions are what are being visualized, thought doesn't and shouldn't come into the picture because thought is not what controls your shooting - awareness is.

If you do not trust your ability, that automatically brings your ego into it. I'm not fast enough. I'm not accurate enough. Don't miss that swinger. Whatever it may be. Your ego thrives off of thought which prevents pure visualization. When you do trust your skills you develop a sort of "mental stillness" which gives the possibility of channeling action and awareness into performance. That doesn't mean pure visualization and performance will always happen, there are many other variables. All it does is allow the possibility of it.

[XRe]

Flexmoney, on Sep 14 2007, 01:25 AM, said:

As a shooter advances in skill, he doesn't need to tap the tank very much for those skills. That leaves more in the attention tank for other things.

I get what you're saying - and probably why you think it doesn't work as an analogy I'd put it more that as one advances, we become more efficient about our use of attention, and tank of attention gets bigger in size... For instance, we're still paying attention to grip on the gun, how the gun comes up in the draw, etc - but its not all consuming like it once was... We have more capacity to be aware of things, and our bodies are much better at using our resources effectively...

Quote

Execute.
Just shoot.

Ask yourself how that bakes your noodle. (Your thoughts are the only thing in your way.)

Those words do not. Neither do the concepts. The issue that I've noticed is in what comes before that.

Quote

If you're clear of purpose...then no matter your skill level...you will perform to your current ability.

Let's talk about this a second... and how it relates to visualization. Pre-stage prep is the issue, right now - its the thing I'm questioning and examining. Currently, when I'm shooting my best, my pre-stage routine and visualization are relatively rudimentary and simple. I examine the stage, and put the brain in the front seat to analyze my route of attack, orders of engagement where time is critical, etc. Following that, I walk the stage one or more times to make sure that I haven't overlooked something (a more natural route, for instance), and to note distances, steps, angles of engagement, etc - points to note for visualization, mainly. Then, I go to the back of the stage, and start putting it together in terms of where the targets are at. This is not a closed eyes, seeing every detail thing - its a "go left, shoot a full, a partial right-slant, a full, bunny hop right shoot three US poppers through the port...", etc. When I can recite that and see the target order in my head without making mistakes, I close my eyes, and run the stage mentally - I don't see the dot/sights on the targets, I don't see a particular perf mark where I'm going to put my sights, none of that. I see the stage through my eyes - I see my eyes snap onto the next target, then to the next one, etc, I see key points either on the ground or the props or whatever I've noticed that mark my route through the stage. When I'm done with that, I stop. Right before I shoot, I go back through that again - I work the stage w/ eyes open, making sure I remember the targets, then eyes closed and a move through. I have a sense of pace during the move through, in that I'm not visualizing staring at one target and then staring at another, but snapping into one, and then the next, etc. I walk the stage a couple of times after the shooter ahead of me goes. I LAMR. I vis the stage in the same way a last time. I shoot.

The difference between that and my over-obsessive analysis? I feel like I'm trying to visualize every last detail, down to the nth degree - I'm trying (there's that word ) to see perfs in my mind, see a paster to aim at, the exact number of steps, etc, etc, etc....

I'm wondering if this doesn't tie to the statement above in that.... When I go into "hyper visualization mode", am I just cluttering up my purpose? I've identified that as feeling like trying, to me, but I'm not sure I've labeled it correctly, or that labelling it is the right thing to even do.

Quote

But, if you tell yourself to 'execute'...and your head goes somewhere else with that thought (gotta hit the reload, etc.)...then you have internal conflict, not clarity of purpose.

I've worked into a thing that Burkett turned me onto that has helped a lot in terms of "turning on the key", if you will. After I assume the start position, I look away from where I intend to look at the start of the stage. At "Standby", I snap my eyes to that spot - that's go time, the stage is going, and I'm executing right then. I'm generally not aware of any thoughts past that point. Occasionally, I pick something up right before the Standby command - its almost always a positive support phrase of some sort - "Sharp", "Smooth", "Settle", things like that.

Quote

Quote

...end up in this state of over thinking things, once I got behind just a taste.

It's pretty clear where the noodle is at there.

Yeah, no doubt

Quote

and the fix:

Quote

...nice spot of "identify, pick a route, burn in the plan, and execute" and shot much better for the last 5 stages.

And here we come to it, though... the part that does drive me up the wall, right now. When I do that (above) - I am most decidedly not "seeing everything razor sharp in my mind", as everyone seems to talk about in their visualizations. Its almost as if, the less detailed I see it, the better, to a point.

Fundamentally, I know that visualization is not limited to the sense of sight, but its really more than that... I'm also not naive enough to think there are absolutes - that I have to do it a certain way or it doesn't work.... But I have concerns that I'm missing the boat or something, here. That I've somehow got a hole in the skill set that, when I start to work on it - I start to get into visualizing in that sense of detail, it just stops working entirely. Is that necessary? Really? Is this sense of acute visualization the only way?

Part of me says, if it works, don't try and fix it.... And, yeah, there's some wisdom in that. Its the off-season, for me, though, and a time to start a structured tear down and rebuild for next season, so.... why not take a look under the hood, eh?

Now I feel completely fricking neurotic, too....

One other detail, before I forget to add it in - I'm finding that I'm more of a "feel" person, in terms of my visualization. I'm not certain how to describe exactly what I mean, but I'll give it a whirl. My performances are better when my visualizations are not structured, logical, point A to point B, rattle it all off kinds of things - but more when they are having a "sense of things". Like, I know where the target is, I know what the scoring zones look like on it, I know how to drive the gun there, and make holes where they need to be. If I let those details deal with themselves - or put a different way (though I hadn't quite perceived it like this before), if I trust that I know how to do those things - and instead focus my visualization on the things I mentioned above, and just feeling what its like to look at the target, and then at the next one, and then what it looks like to come into the next position, etc... Then it all happens. ... I don't know that that makes any frickin' sense at all, but.... I gave it a shot, anyway

Quote

What if we were in that comfort place as much as possible? Which means...no worries.

That's a different way of considering the term "comfort zone" for me. To me, "comfort zone" has meant the slow death... no improvement, no zest in the performance. In fact, at this point, I seem to be more comfortable with something that feels like stretching and growing - breaking habits and barriers and old ways of thinking - and it strikes me as the exact opposite of being in the "comfort zone".... But... what do I know about that, anyway??? I'm back in that funny spot we find a lot as we grow where we suddenly feel like we're in a new spot and we once again know nothing. I'm good with that - but that's where a lot of this examination is coming from.

Quote

(It doesn't mean holding back and limiting.) What if we are comfortable and performing at a high level...? What if we had that clarity or purpose...? Wouldn't that allow us to be open ? Wouldn't we then slip into that magical 'zone' from time to time? Couldn't we allow ourselves to be in position for that?

I have to meditate on this some more.... I'll have a couple hours tomorrow on the way to and back from the match in Waco... I'm not certain I fully understand what you're getting at, here... Let me come back to this tomorrow....

[XRe]

benos, on Sep 14 2007, 08:40 PM, said:

If you can just clearly visualize everything you want to happen - without any thought whatsoever - there's a pretty good chance that it will.

And this is exactly the sort of thing that has me hung up - the phrase "clearly visualize". What does that mean? What does that feel like??? Do those questions make sense? Knowing that I already acknowledged no absolutes, let me probe that concept - if I don't visualize my seeing sense to an infinite level of detail, am I still visualizing clearly? Can I be successful without razor sharp visual focus in my "visualization"?? Is visualization more than just seeing everything in your mind? What does the word "clearly" mean?

Am I wrapped around the axle far enough, yet??? heh heh...