[ryan45kim]

Ok I have a couple questions for you shotgun experts. I just shot sporting clays and 5 stand for the first time and had a blast. I decided I need a shot gun just for clays. I would be shooting trap, skeet, sporting clays and what ever else I run into. I’ve been reading everything I can find on the subject and think the Beretta 391 is what I’m looking for, but what model do I want? Is there one that is better then the others, comes with all the chokes I will need ect. I’m not dedicating my life to clays, I spend most of my free time trying to change my limited m card to a limited gm one so this is a side thing just for fun. I have a group of friends that go shoot this around once a month but I’d like to get the right equipment in the beginning so that I won’t be held back. Also is there anything else I will need for this like a vest shell carriers ect?

Thanks in advance, Ryan


Also would a Benelli M2 be a good option for clays (I could also use it for three gun) because I did not see anyone really talking about it? Why are people not using it, is it just a recoil issue or is there something else wrong with it that makes it not popular it the clays world.

This post has been edited by ryan45kim: 22 July 2007 - 07:54 AM

[EricW]

391 is the most popular auto. I really liked mine until I got an O/U. Haven't touched the 391 since. The base 391 will shoot just as well as the high-zoot model. The one thing the 391 desperately needs is forward weight. Beretta now makes a foreend weight system for the 391 that replaces the magazine cap. I would strongly recommend getting it.

Also consider getting a used Citori. Lots are available for the same price as a new 391 (which are really out of line IMO). I may be ditching my 391 if you really want one.

Never shot a Benelli, but the issue is definitely recoil.

E

This post has been edited by EricW: 22 July 2007 - 08:58 AM

[ranger]

3 Gun shotguns and Sporting Clay shotguns are different animals for different games.

The Beretta 391 12 gauge with 28 or 30 inch barrels is a great choice that you can use for Trap, Skeet, or Sporting Clays.

A great value is a Remington 1100 Sporting Clays 12 gauge 28 inch barrel that comes from the factory with four extended choke tubes. You can usually find these on sale somewhere.

Check at your local shotgun club - they usually have used shotguns for sale on a bulletin board.

Have fun!

[BillL223]

I am not recoil sensitive and prefer an O/U for Sporting Clays as it gives you the option of two chokes. I have owned a Browning 425 , which I would recommend, and currently shoot a Beretta 682 in 12 gauge with 32" barrels. My latest "fun" gun is a Beretta 686 S in 28 gauge. If you shoot trap doubles, two chokes will also be useful. I'm not an expert Skeet shooter, but I'm thinking the availability for a second choke is not important for most casual shooters.

[JD45]

If you would rather spend less money to start, I would look for an older Remington 1100 field model, 28-inch barrel, with screw-in Rem chokes. Or, you might find something like an old 1100 with fixed chokes, and purchase it at a low price. Then you can buy an aftermarket 28" rem choke barrel to replace the fixed choke one. Be sure to add a good recoil pad and have the length-of-pull fitted to your measurements.

As said before, if you are willing to pay more, a Beretta 391 is one of the best. And I would also choose something close to the base model without porting. There is also nothing wrong with a used 390(if it is not worn out).

I shoot a Browning Citori, and can't imagine anyone making a more durable over/under. There are many guns that are better balanced and prettier than the Browning, but the Citori's are highly shootable in most people's hands. For what you get, they are a bargin.

As far as barrel lengths go, they start at 28" for autos and 30" for over/unders. Shoot as many guns as you can before you buy.

Don't get sucked into the need for a special "hot" sporting load. I still see people shooting 1 1/8oz. loads at 1250-1300+fps. They will beat your brains out in a double, and are not necessary. I've gone to one-ounce@1180fps for everything and it helped my shooting tremendously. If targets stay under 35yds. you don't need extra-hard shot or fancy loads. The crappiest shells you can find will break these targets( unfortunately most of them are fast and kick too much).

If someone made me choose three sporting clays chokes for an auto, I would pick cylinder, improved cylinder, and improved modified. Or you could say a .000", .015", and .025".

Most people wear a shooting vest. If you are like me and think they are too hot at 98 degrees and humid, you can get something called a half-vest like the ones from Cabela's. It is simply a belt with shell pouches on each side and a hull-bag in the back.

This post has been edited by JD45: 22 July 2007 - 07:01 PM

[ryan45kim]

What are 391s going for (prices) base model fancy ones ect?

Also what do you look for on a used one (what wears out on them)?

Is there a model that you guys recommend?

Thanks, Ryan

[tightloop]

Several comments...I used to think you needed two choke options to do your best work, till Bobby Fowler won the World Championship shooting a Browning Gold autoloader...O/U are beautiful and give you pride of ownership, but recoil is cumulative and at the end of the day, you might shoot better with a gas gun that hasn't beaten you into submission, if you shoot more than 200 rounds per day...Any 1100 Remington will do you, but the knock on them is that they are very heavy and the gas system is not very clean...the M2 is a great gun, but the recoil is more than any good gas gun because it is recoil operated...You don't have to buy new, like they say, look at the good used guns...Try as many different kinds as you can B4 you buy...Gas guns aside, especially in the used market, you get what you pay for, and if you buy a used O/U, about 1K is a fair starting point, used 1100 is about 500, used 391 about 750 and a new 391 Sporting with all the bells is about 1125....makes a used Citori for 800-1000 look like a real good deal...

Just my thoughts, hope it helps..

[Irishlad]

Tightloop gave good advice.


I've shot the 391 Urika sporting model a modest amount...shoots nice. I'm not familiar with the "upgraded" versions with different names and features to be honest. But, luckily in shotgunning, additional "gizmos" have not helped or proven to be of any value IMHO. Exception might be an "adjustable" stock. Cheapest and easiest way to alter a stock if needed.

You need to decide whether you want a 28" or 30" barrel.

I've seen bolts and trigger parts break in 390/391s. Often a fair amount of rounds through them...nothing to worry about IMO. If your shooting that much, you probably own 2 of them anyway.
They are reliable autos.

Personally, I prefer the 1100s, but they are more "work" to keep running when you get into higher round counts, compared to the Beretta.

This post has been edited by Irishlad: 27 July 2007 - 12:49 PM

[reneet]

I am in a similar situation. Just joined NSCA. Have been shooting 5 stand and STC with my USPSA Open 3 Gun Shotgun minus the extended mag tube and speedloader bracket... It's a Remington 11-87 with Adj. Comb stock, Ported barrel & Clark Scope base. You would not believe the looks & questions I get when I go shoot a round of Sporting Clays.

I am considering several different guns but don't have any intention of changing until after NSCA Nationals. The guns I'm looking at include the Beretta 390 / 391 group and several O/Us including Browning & Beretta. I've heard that if you look around in the used gun market, good deals are to be found if you have patience.

[Jaxshooter]

If you are going to shoot one gun for trap, skeet and sporting clays go with the Beretta 391 and have an adjustable comb put on it. You will be better off long term with a 30" barrel for all 3 games. I personally shoot both auto loaders and O/U depending on how I feel. I have a Kolar Custom Grade O/U with 32" barrels and several Beretta 303s with 30" and 32" barrels. It is really not necessary to change chokes shooting sporting clays. I use improved modified 99.9% of the time. In my O/U I leave I Mod and Mod in it all the time.

[EricW]

Jaxshooter, on Jul 27 2007, 03:33 PM, said:

It is really not necessary to change chokes shooting sporting clays. I use improved modified 99.9% of the time. In my O/U I leave I Mod and Mod in it all the time.

Now *that* will get you a Fatah from the Clays Taliban™. Jeez. I'll bet you show up with a black gun occasionally too.

[Irishlad]

Quote

I've heard that if you look around in the used gun market, good deals are to be found if you have patience.

You can save "lot's" of money if you know what you want and have time.

If you want a Browning, look at the 425 instead of 525, probably save well over $500...give or take. 325...save a thousand. All similar in sporting configurations. Just be mindful of model and stock dimensions. Browning skeet models have higher ribs and straight "trap like" stocks, unlike the sporting models. Although Browning does have some higher rib sporting models also. That's why it's good to have some idea of what you want.

Beretta, look for the 686 instead of 682 series, save well over a thousand, even new!

This post has been edited by Irishlad: 28 July 2007 - 04:42 AM

[tightloop]

Irishlad, on Jul 28 2007, 06:42 AM, said:

Quote

I've heard that if you look around in the used gun market, good deals are to be found if you have patience.

You can save "lot's" of money if you know what you want and have time.

If you want a Browning, look at the 425 instead of 525, probably save well over $500...give or take. 325...save a thousand. All similar in sporting configurations. Just be mindful of model and stock dimensions. Browning skeet models have higher ribs and straight "trap like" stocks, unlike the sporting models. Although Browning does have some higher rib sporting models also. That's why it's good to have some idea of what you want.

Beretta, look for the 686 instead of 682 series, save well over a thousand, even new!

The difference in the 686 and 682 is that the 682 has a more robust frame meant for many thousands of rounds on the competition fields not the many hundreds of rounds fired in the game fields...

[Irishlad]

The differences between the two that are undisputed are the adjustable triggers and replaceable shoulder pins. Aside from balance, fit, finish differences etc. Hard to tell sometimes. Beretta has changed balances, weights, bbls several times. The new 682's, IMO, are nothing like the older 682's.

I've "read" the 682 frame is slightly thicker, it may have more "hand-work" than the production 686.
Same parts internally.

But, I know at least one person who has many 10's of thousands of rounds through a 686 and "read" the shoulder "pins" are rarely replaced anyway. Others "feel" the differences are too slight to matter, other than what you like better, and wonder how Beretta "pulls that off', marketing-wise. There is a "feel" of higher quality in the 682, but whether that translates into actual durability/reliability... I wonder.

Regardless, IMHO, for the vast majority of people that shoot, I think the 686 will do fine for a lot less money...if they like the feel and have a 'set' amount to spend. Want premium...skip the 682 and go right to the DT-10!

This post has been edited by Irishlad: 28 July 2007 - 09:03 AM

[tightloop]

Irishlad, on Jul 28 2007, 11:00 AM, said:

The differences between the two that are undisputed are the adjustable triggers and replaceable shoulder pins. Aside from balance, fit, finish differences etc. Hard to tell sometimes. Beretta has changed balances, weights, bbls several times. The new 682's, IMO, are nothing like the older 682's.

I've "read" the 682 frame is slightly thicker, it may have more "hand-work" than the production 686.
Same parts internally.

But, I know at least one person who has many 10's of thousands of rounds through a 686 and "read" the shoulder "pins" are rarely replaced anyway. Others "feel" the differences are too slight to matter, other than what you like better, and wonder how Beretta "pulls that off', marketing-wise. There is a "feel" of higher quality in the 682, but whether that translates into actual durability/reliability... I wonder.

Regardless, IMHO, for the vast majority of people that shoot, I think the 686 will do fine for a lot less money...if they like the feel and have a 'set' amount to spend. Want premium...skip the 682 and go right to the DT-10!

I don't know of anyone wearing out any of them....but that is Rich Cole told me...and the DT10 is crumby looking for my $$ would rather have a 682 and you are correct since the Gold 682's they haven't been as good as the older ones...mine is an early 90's model IIRC...and before that had one of the plain silver receiver 682's...and B4 that a 686 Sporting...all good guns...

[EricW]

Well...OK...so I'm a dumbass shotgun consumer. All I know is I just bought a lightly-used 682 for far less than a 687 would have run. Maybe I'll need to replace the shoulders someday, maybe I won't, but I know the SOB will run forever and that's all I really care about.

And if I really get into clays, I'll buy a DT10 and just let people dog cuss me for it. It's easier to fly with one shotgun and two trigger assemblies than to drag around (and insure) two shotguns.

[Irishlad]

Quote

Well...OK...so I'm a dumbass shotgun consumer. All I know is I just bought a lightly-used 682 for far less than a 687 would have run

Hardly, you "did" real good.

Even if you bought a DT-10, with 10 trigger groups, it doesn't help if your FPs break, top lever, ejector, etc. Two guns when you travel or in sports with "time limits" to return to the line without penalty.

[tightloop]

EricW, on Jul 28 2007, 04:43 PM, said:

Well...OK...so I'm a dumbass shotgun consumer. All I know is I just bought a lightly-used 682 for far less than a 687 would have run. Maybe I'll need to replace the shoulders someday, maybe I won't, but I know the SOB will run forever and that's all I really care about.

And if I really get into clays, I'll buy a DT10 and just let people dog cuss me for it. It's easier to fly with one shotgun and two trigger assemblies than to drag around (and insure) two shotguns.

don't worry about what anyone says, just shoot hell out of it and enjoy it..

[ranger]

In Georgia, you can buy a like new Beretta 391 Sporting Clays 30 inch barrel with five Optima chokes for $700, a like new Remington 1100 12 gauge Sporting Clays 28 inch barrel with 4 chokes for $550, and a Browning 325 or 425 with 30 inch barrels with multiple chokes for $1000 to $1250.

I saw a clean Browning Gold Sporting Clays 12 gauge with 30 inch barrel and multiple chokes for $500.

Any of these would last for years of clay target loads.

The used shotgun market is a great option for a clays shooter.

[tightloop]

ranger, on Jul 30 2007, 05:19 PM, said:

In Georgia, you can buy a like new Beretta 391 Sporting Clays 30 inch barrel with five Optima chokes for $700, a like new Remington 1100 12 gauge Sporting Clays 28 inch barrel with 4 chokes for $550, and a Browning 325 or 425 with 30 inch barrels with multiple chokes for $1000 to $1250.

I saw a clean Browning Gold Sporting Clays 12 gauge with 30 inch barrel and multiple chokes for $500.

Any of these would last for years of clay target loads.

The used shotgun market is a great option for a clays shooter.

Is that the gun store the ATF is targeting for making straw sales...LOL

[ranger]

tightloop, on Jul 30 2007, 06:49 PM, said:

ranger, on Jul 30 2007, 05:19 PM, said:

In Georgia, you can buy a like new Beretta 391 Sporting Clays 30 inch barrel with five Optima chokes for $700, a like new Remington 1100 12 gauge Sporting Clays 28 inch barrel with 4 chokes for $550, and a Browning 325 or 425 with 30 inch barrels with multiple chokes for $1000 to $1250.

I saw a clean Browning Gold Sporting Clays 12 gauge with 30 inch barrel and multiple chokes for $500.

Any of these would last for years of clay target loads.

The used shotgun market is a great option for a clays shooter.

Is that the gun store the ATF is targeting for making straw sales...LOL

Actually, those are from individuals.

[ryan45kim]

First off I’d like to thank everyone for there help. I have a couple more questions.

1) What is the difference between the Urika and the Teknys models?

2) There are 2 different barrels (I think) the optima and the mobil? I know the optima has the better chokes but what are the other differences and are they worth getting?

3) Is the model 3901 American a model 390 renamed, what are you’re thoughts on it? Also is it better to just get a 391 because of quality, chokes that are included ect?

4) Everyone keeps saying just get the base model, what is that. Are we talking about the field models, mobil chokes, Urika, Teknys?

Ryan

[EricW]

ryan45kim, on Aug 31 2007, 02:39 PM, said:

First off I’d like to thank everyone for there help. I have a couple more questions.

1) What is the difference between the Urika and the Teknys models?

2) There are 2 different barrels (I think) the optima and the mobil? I know the optima has the better chokes but what are the other differences and are they worth getting?

3) Is the model 3901 American a model 390 renamed, what are you’re thoughts on it? Also is it better to just get a 391 because of quality, chokes that are included ect?

4) Everyone keeps saying just get the base model, what is that. Are we talking about the field models, mobil chokes, Urika, Teknys?

Ryan

1. Gingerbread mainly. Either will do fine. If you want more bling, buy it. The pickup truck will also get to the store just as well. The one thing I want on my 391 is an oil finish stock just because they are soooo much easier to manage dings and scratches on.

2. It really doesn't matter for American Sporting. Either will be fine as we don't have many shots where full just isn't full enough. All things being equal, the Optima is the superior choke system, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get it unless I knew I was going to be shooting double trap or FITASC.

3. 3901 is the new version of the 390, which was a perfectly good shotgun. I don't know of a technical reason why you wouldn't get one.

4) Base model = field model. Do buy a 30 or 32" bbl, for a game gun. It will help. I'm shooting a 30" O/U because I wanted "one gun shoots all" including hunting. For a dedicated game gun, you'll like the extra length. I have a 391 with a 26" and it is simply too short and whippy.

Do take the time to fly before you buy. Try a nice O/U before you spring for an auto. You may like it better. Also, seriously consider the weight systems. I think Beretta now offers both stock and mag cap weight systems. The stock field guns are wonderful, but my *opinion* is that shotguns feel "right" around the 8 lb mark, minus 1/2 lb and plus 1/2 to 1 lb. The weight systems also allow you to create the "Trick of the Day" by strategically adding/dropping mass depending on whether you are under or over leading targets.

[Hank Ellis]

I'm no clays guru by any standards. But...

When I started putzing around with breaking those little clay Frisbees I started with a Rem 870. Did my first 1200 targets with that gun. Noticed that my scores would drop one or two birds every round after the first. The 870 was beating me up and fatigue was the issue. Time to get a new gun.

My clays guru is an A class trapshooter, Master class sporting clays, and somewhere equally up there in skeet. When I asked him what his recommendation for a do-everything clays gun for around $1500 give or take some he didn't hesitate. "Beretta 391 Urika Parallel Target" He also added, "Oh, and order a boxcar full of shells and start practicing because nothing but rounds through the barrel will get you good at these games."

Took his advice. Except the ordering of the boxcar of shells.

[ranger]

ryan45kim, on Aug 31 2007, 05:39 PM, said:

First off I'd like to thank everyone for there help. I have a couple more questions.

1) What is the difference between the Urika and the Teknys models?

2) There are 2 different barrels (I think) the optima and the mobil? I know the optima has the better chokes but what are the other differences and are they worth getting?

3) Is the model 3901 American a model 390 renamed, what are you're thoughts on it? Also is it better to just get a 391 because of quality, chokes that are included ect?

4) Everyone keeps saying just get the base model, what is that. Are we talking about the field models, mobil chokes, Urika, Teknys?

Ryan

1) Check the Beretta America webpage. Short answer - the Teknys is a Urika with more options and a significantly higher price tag. I would suggest you buy the Urika Sporting Clays and save your money.

2) The difference between Mobil and Optima is "overboring". Short answer, Mobil is the original Beretta choke system made for a "standard" 12 gauge bore. Optima is the "newer" Beretta choke system and utilizes an "overbored" barrel and matching chokes. Overboring is supposed to reduce recoil and improve patterning. Also, the Optima guns come with extended factory chokes. If you have a choice between two equal 391s and one has the Optima chokes - buy the Optima. If you get a better deal on the Mobil choked shotgun, get it. My 391 is a 30" Urika Model with Optima chokes.

3) The 3901 is the "old" 390 reintroduced as a cheaper alternative to 391, etc. at WALMART, etc. It would be an excellent hunting and occasional clay shotgun. If you are serious about clay shooting, I suggest you get the 391 Urika Sporting Clays model with the Optima chokes and 28 or 30" barrel.

4) I would define the "base" model for clay shooting as the "base" competition grade model not the 3901 or other hunting grade version of the 390/391 series. Again, I recommend a Beretta 391 Urika Sporting Clays with the Optima Choke system with 28 or 30" barrel. Save your money and do not get it ported. Use the factory Optima chokes. Do not get an adjustable comb. Get a decent vest. Buy a ton of cheap 12 gauge shells (preferably 1 oz). Get the discount, promo Remingtons from Bass Pro, Dicks, etc. or the discount Winchester 1 oz loads from Walmart.

5) Have fun - look me up if you are ever in GA