[Flyin40]

I have a problem when at matches lately being able to pick a spot on the target instead of just seeing brown. I made a drill up to work on this. I can shoot A's all day but when I get to a match and start moving around its easy for me to starting seeing brown. The more movement the more brown I see. So here it is. I have all this readily available at the range.

8 barrels or 4 barricades or something that can be used as a vision barrier. You can use target stands and targets if you have to.
4 target stands and sticks

Set barrels 2 high left side, space next vision barrier 5 yds to the right in a straight line. Space the next vision barrier 12inches and last vision barrier 5yds from it. Basically if you use barrels you'll have 2 stacked barrels, 5yds, 2 stacked barrels, 12inches, 2 stacked barrels, 5yds, 2 stacked barrels.

Start on left, set first target 10yds from 1st vision barrier straight back, next put next 3 targets at 2yds so you have to engage them between the vision barriers in the 12 inches and the last target put 10yds from the right vision barrier, straight back. The middle array just use 2 target stands, put a high then low using a stick from each stand, then high. The high target was 4ft at the shoulder in the middle array.


Start 3yds back in the middle with the middle 3 targets right in front you. On beep go to left vision barrier engage left target, then back to middle engaging middle 3 targets then to the last vision barrier and engage the last target on the right.

After going left then try it going right first.

I have alot of trouble with really picking a spot on up close targets while moving. This drill incorporates quite alot of things and is a pretty advanced drill.

I can drill all day long on targets standing still and pick the target spot just fine but when I start moving I start having trouble. I did this yesterday but I my distances might be alittle different. I'll be shooting tomorrow and will put everything at these distances and post some times.

My goal is too shoot all A's in the top half of the A zone.

There are 2 more drills I will make this into.

I will move middle vision barriers 4ft apart so the middle array can be engaged faster. I did this yesterday also, I really have to pick a spot and open up my vision to keep all A's in the middle as I'm going by. Its really easy just to pull the trigger on the brown with the targets so close.

The last drill I will just move back 8yds and shoot the whole thing the same way. I will keep the barriers 4ft apart so I will be shooting the targets in the middle on the move at 9yds.

Flyin

This post has been edited by Flyin40: 21 July 2007 - 11:21 AM

[Flyin40]

Ran the Drill yesterday. Found this to do exactly what I needed it too. I was really able to see the perfs and pick a spot on the middle set of targets after some practice. Everything started to slow down and it was nice to have that feeling again. I shot this with the 22 and the 40. The times ended up pretty much the same as well as points. I will be working this drill some more in the next week and a half. I need to keep doing this to really get it in my head to pick a spot. Been dryfiring to with pasters on the targets alot too, working on snapping my eyes.

Its kind of a big drill to set up but with only 12inches between those middle barrels you really have to open up your vision as you go by. Any takers on this drill???

Going to the left first
22cal
8.45secs 1down
8.50secs clean
8.12secs 2 down
8.12secs clean

40cal
8.33secs 2down
8.12secs clean
7.95secs 1down
8.21secs clean


Going the the right first
22cal
8.28secs 1down
8.43secs clean
7.99secs 1down
8.23secs 1 down

40cal
8.45secs clean
8.27secs 2 down
8.33secs 2down
8.02 clean

Heres a video to go along with it

practice


Flyin

This post has been edited by Flyin40: 23 July 2007 - 06:10 PM

[j1b]

John,

If you know you have the issue, just focus on that for your next match.

I get the drill, but you've been shooting long enough to know that if you simply decide to pick a spot on the targets once it comes to match day you'll do it.

I'd liken it to "the trick of the day" as referenced by our host in his book.

You know the issue, you know how to fix it and that fix comes on match day. I think if you just focus on it you'll be ok.

Sometimes stuff like this happens and it is harder to fix. Every time I start shooting again I've got to re-learn that the A zone doesn't center in the middle of the body mass. It's an adjustment for me. But generally, after the first match or two I start remembering and the problem simply goes away . . .

J

[Ben Stoeger]

Nice shooting dood...

You really maintain motion through the center port. Well done!

I am gonna have to give this one a try.

[Flyin40]

j1b, on Jul 23 2007, 08:36 PM, said:

John,

If you know you have the issue, just focus on that for your next match.

I get the drill, but you've been shooting long enough to know that if you simply decide to pick a spot on the targets once it comes to match day you'll do it.

I'd liken it to "the trick of the day" as referenced by our host in his book.

You know the issue, you know how to fix it and that fix comes on match day. I think if you just focus on it you'll be ok.

Sometimes stuff like this happens and it is harder to fix. Every time I start shooting again I've got to re-learn that the A zone doesn't center in the middle of the body mass. It's an adjustment for me. But generally, after the first match or two I start remembering and the problem simply goes away . . .

J

Thanks for the input.


I'll try to explain it alittle better. Its not as easy as just deciding to hit the A zone, its deciding to hit the A zone as fast as possible and thats the problem Hitting the A zone isn't the hard part. A couple of months ago I shot the 2 Michigan matches I used 2 very separate styles. The first match the only thing I worried about was hits. I wasn't concerned about anything else. I ended up with 4 mikes for the the 18 stage match. Some of the top pro shooters had 10 penalties it was an extremely hard match. I had good points and shot solid except for one thing, the time it took me to shoot the stage. I wasn't slow but I gave up too much time. The second match was 9 stages I decided to be extremely aggressive on the stages. I wasn't trying to shoot aggressively but more so in movements through the stage etc. The second match I ended up having 7 penalties and I finished with a much better percentage even with the misses. I was really aggressive on the stages. This is a different style of shooting than I'm used too. I have now decided to shoot this way. The problem is when I attack stages as aggressively as I have been it affects my shooting. I need to be able shoot a stage that way but still let my mind be calm when pulling the trigger. I was shooting matches at say 85% with movement and shooting, I was backing off to much. Now I go at 95% with movement, going from spot to spot and 95% of my shooting speed. Pushing it this much puts you on the borderline. There lies the problem. I don't think there is one shooter in the world who has conquered this. It would be never any penalties etc. Those who come the closest to mastering this are always at the top.
Those that perform close to this level consistanly finish high a big matches. Then there are the crash and burns which we see all the time. For me the more running I do during a stage, the more I attack the movement parts of a stage the more it affects my shooting. The trick is being able to separate the shooting from everything else. So the purpose of this drill is to have alot of movement that gets me running like an actual match. I want to attack the drill just like an actual stage. Now at this higher level of arousal(not too relaxed but not pumped up out of my mind) I want everything to slow down, open my vision up. I'm looking at this as more of a mental conditioning drill/vision drill, not necessarly a shooting drill.


Hey Ben,
I thought I was going to see you this year at Area 5 but I won't be able to make it. I"m going to miss a good time.



Flyin

This post has been edited by Flyin40: 24 July 2007 - 05:13 PM

[Flexmoney]

Visualize this all coming together in a psotivie manner.

Maybe...smooth agression, or whatever works in your mind.

Find something in life that lets you relate to what you want to do here.

[benos]

I think a lot of shooters, when they're moving from position to position, don't visualize or feel anything in particular. (I know I didn't for many years.) This is due to the way the stage is visualized initially.

Think about a stage you can remember visualizing. How did you see it? Now what did you see, but how did you see it. You probably visualized what you needed to see to shoot the first target or group of targets, then the next group of targets, and so on. Therein lies the problem. The visualization "ends" with each group of targets. So as your racing to the next position, your mind is not filled with anything that you're going to see when you get there. So you arrive and start blasting in somewhat of a panic. If this sounds familiar, you can also relate how this just gets worse the more times you have to move during a stage.

I visualized stages and shot them like that for years, before I finally learned to create a visual movie of the whole stage, beforehand. With no details left out. I also learned to add how I was going to feel when I arrived at each position to the mental rehearsal. Sometimes even a slight, planned, exhale, as I was arriving at a position, would help keep my mind together.
be

[j1b]

Interesting BE replied the way he did on this one. I doubt you remember these conversations Brian but we used to talk quite a bit about it.

I was definitly, and still am to an extent, the exact same way. I apologize for mis-understanding the question. Brian described what we worked on really well. I liked to try and simply split up, in my mind, the shooting parts and the non-shooting parts. So the thing we worked on (as I recall it) was to slightly, CONCIOUSLY, exhale just before getting into a position. The way I shoot - I couldn't tell you whether I ever actually exhaled or not. I assume I was breathing during the course but even that is up for debate. But the thought of doing it really helped "settle" me.

Another debatable issue - but I then began to believe, once I had that fix, that became a strong point in my shooting. An advantage if you could call it that. So when I watched video of the last nationals I remember thinking "damn - my kind of match" Short movement, quick and fast enough to take people out of their game plan. I loved it - wished I'd been there.

It's so interesting - and your drill is good for it (nice movement in the barrels BTW) - because I very distinctly remember BE and I working through this very issue.

Again - sorry for the wrong direction on my first post.

J

[gotcha]

benos, on Jul 24 2007, 05:33 PM, said:

I think a lot of shooters, when they're moving from position to position, don't visualize or feel anything in particular. (I know I didn't for many years.) This is due to the way the stage is visualized initially.

Think about a stage you can remember visualizing. How did you see it? Now what did you see, but how did you see it. You probably visualized what you needed to see to shoot the first target or group of targets, then the next group of targets, and so on. Therein lies the problem. The visualization "ends" with each group of targets. So as your racing to the next position, your mind is not filled with anything that you're going to see when you get there. So you arrive and start blasting in somewhat of a panic. If this sounds familiar, you can also relate how this just gets worse the more times you have to move during a stage.

I visualized stages and shot them like that for years, before I finally learned to create a visual movie of the whole stage, beforehand. With no details left out. I also learned to add how I was going to feel when I arrived at each position to the mental rehearsal. Sometimes even a slight, planned, exhale, as I was arriving at a position, would help keep my mind together.
be

Holy $hit that is exactly what is happening............as I was reading this the big light bulb went off..............thanks !!!!

Martin

[benos]

j1b, on Jul 24 2007, 06:23 PM, said:

Interesting BE replied the way he did on this one. I doubt you remember these conversations Brian but we used to talk quite a bit about it.

I was definitly, and still am to an extent, the exact same way. I apologize for mis-understanding the question. Brian described what we worked on really well. I liked to try and simply split up, in my mind, the shooting parts and the non-shooting parts. So the thing we worked on (as I recall it) was to slightly, CONCIOUSLY, exhale just before getting into a position.

Yes I do remember that Jack. Visualizing the stage as a movie that never stops (as you leave a position) was a real turning point for me.
be

[Flyin40]

I went back and was rereading what I typed and Flex and Benos was reading it at the same time. I said to myself...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder how close their answers will resemble each other. Pretty darn close


One thing I noticed the other day when things started slowing down was how I could see the top of the A zone perfs clearly when I came past the barrels in the middle. It was a nice feeling.

I took the advice and went to the range after spending most of today at work thinking about it. My Marvel broke so I'm pretty much done with the 22 practice I had planned A screw on the inside sheared off allowing the firing pin assembly to move around so now I can't finish a mag without a misfire Anyways back to topic, Flex and Benos were right on. With being more aggressive I would visualize being aggressive from spot to spot and visualize an A hit and thats about it. I didn't visualize a "movie" but instead visualized "clips" and then tried to make it work. I wasn't visualizing coming into a shooting position slowing up and getting into a position or anything else.

The key points of the visualization today were exhaling as I was coming into a shooting position looking for the perfs. I made this a conscious effort to relate the exhale with an A zone hit meaning its time to find the exact spot I want to hit when I exhale. My exhale was several steps out even before the target was visible. I also related all my movements with being smooth. I also made a very detailed movie of every step, movement and how it would feel at that time during the stage.

Benos,
Could you comment on relating the exhale as a cue to start finding the A zone/picking a spot.


The results were good. I had several runs at 7.7ish clean. My best run was my last one. I told myself this would be my fastest run.( I purposely did this to put some pressure on myself and to be extremely aggressive) I then made my movie, I visualized being smooth, exploding from spot to spot, coming up to the shooting positions several steps out, exhaling and then shooting 2 A's. Worked great. Clean run @ 7.73secs.


I was going to give a detailed decription of my movie but after typing some I found it would be a whole page just for the 7 second run.


Thanks for the advice


Flyin

[Flexmoney]

Flyin40, on Jul 25 2007, 09:11 PM, said:

One thing I noticed the other day when things started slowing down was how I could see the top of the A zone perfs clearly when I came past the barrels in the middle. It was a nice feeling.

Were you really "slowing down" or were you seeing more?

For me, I don't do well with thoughts of "slowing down". I've come to the realization that that is still a focus on speed. And, that doesn't do me any good.

I need trigger words that get me in the right frame of mind so that I can approach my potential.

For me, I might need to bring to mind "controlled aggression"...or "smooth quickness". Whatever the words are that have the meaning that I need...to allow me to get my mind to a place that lets me visualize what I need to visualize. And, those words...they will all have different meaning to different people (and shooters of different levels).

[benos]

Flyin40, on Jul 25 2007, 06:11 PM, said:

Benos,
Could you comment on relating the exhale as a cue to start finding the A zone/picking a spot.

Not really because I never tried to time or sequence the two. But experiment with it though. Maybe you'll find the trick of life.


I'd be finding the A-box as soon as I could, which of course would vary with stage layout, then the exhale would be more towards just as I was coming into position.

And since this has came up... I eventually dispensed with any trigger words that had anything to do with speed. Whether slowing down or speeding up. Even the "aggressive" didn't work for me - it would bring in a trying state. For me, just - "see this-see that-see this-see that" - is probably the best I could type it. A very matter-of-fact way of programming and seeing.

But I'm sure that's very temperament related. Experiment and see what works best for you.
be

[Flyin40]

benos, on Jul 27 2007, 06:07 PM, said:

Flyin40, on Jul 25 2007, 06:11 PM, said:

Benos,
Could you comment on relating the exhale as a cue to start finding the A zone/picking a spot.

Not really because I never tried to time or sequence the two. But experiment with it though. Maybe you'll find the trick of life.


I'd be finding the A-box as soon as I could, which of course would vary with stage layout, then the exhale would be more towards just as I was coming into position.

I was doing the exhale coming into a position a few steps out as you said too just keep my mind together. I found immediately I was calm by the time I came to the target but also whatever place I picked on the target came into my mind before the target was even visible. It happened like this everytime. So that got me thinking about using it as a cue in dryfire ect. I'll keep messing with it.


Flyin

[Flyin40]

Worked on this again

Going left 1st

8.30secs 2 down This was cold
8.77secs 2 down
8.14secs 2 down
At this point I started pumping myself up some to be more aggressive with my movements. I told myself I needed controlled aggression
7.67secs 3 down
7.43secs 3 down
7.39secs 2 down
7.68secs clean

Going to the right 1st
7.78secs clean
7.70secs 1 down
7.75secs 1 down
I did the same as before, pumped myself up then thought about controlled aggression
7.36secs 2 down
7.52secs clean




I did make my movie each time, adding in visualization of the whole thing and what it would feel like coming into each position. I noticed that my 2 shots are now right beside each other on all the targets. I know I had a run where my biggest 2shot group on the 5 targets was easily under 1 inch. I'm now able to see alot more, and can tell when the shots are outside the Azone on the close stuff. I wasn't able to do this before, I was just shooting brown on the close stuff when some running was involved.

Another thing that I'm picking up very well is coming into any of the positions is making the slowing up to setup on a target smooth instead of stopping quickly and making the dot bounce. The movment feels slower doing it this way but its much faster. I end up spending very little time on the targets. I come in smooth and break the shot as soon as I'm on the target. If I come in to fast the dot is bouncing. This is where the thought of controlled aggression came into play. My movements are quick but controlled and it makes setting up and leaving much easier.

Finding that fine line is tough


Flyin

[Chris Keen]

That's good stuff John. Have you posted more videos ?

[Flyin40]

Worked this drill again

To the left first
7.99 clean Cold run
7.52 2 down
7.90 1 down
8.12 2 down with a reload
7.63 2 down with a reload
7.90 clean with a reload

To the right first
7.87 1 down
8.09 1 down
7.59 clean
7.88 4 down with a reload
7.78 2 down with a reload
7.92 clean with a reload

All head shots
9.47 5 down
9.21 7 down


This drill is teaching me alot and its going really well. I'll be shooting this again but with hard cover and no shoots. I added in the reload after the 1st position just to add in something right before I got to the middle section since this is where I usually have trouble. There were a couple runs that I was down pts in the middle because I didn't have the reload done until the second step. I was on top of the next position by then. I nailed the rest of the reloads and I was right back to normal.

Flyin