[Copland]

I like this part in the forum.

I like sports where after managing the fundamentals it's all about the mind and stuff. This is why I like IPSC, golf and rockclimbing.

The Zone for me is a kind flow where evrything is kinda slowed down and I perform at my best. Biggest problem is/was how to get in to this state of mind.

Some time back I found out and want to share this in our great community at the BE forum.

The techniques I use are from www.heartmath.com. I got to know it through golfclinic but use in all sports and in my job.

It's a breathing related technique that helpes you get in to the zone. The big advantage is you can measure this, and this means you can train it and get better and faster in it.

You can use a measuring device to see what you are doing at the computer. There is also a portable version of it you can take tot the range.

it was in a recent article in golfdigest
http://www.golfdiges...00705heart.html

For a more full understanding check out the heartmath site. I'm not that great in explaining these things in english.

regards,
Rick

[Crusher]

Quote

Golfers, better than anyone, know that a pounding heart can get in the way of success. Now perhaps, they’ll learn how to control it.

Golfers know better than ANYONE?

With the exception of action shooters of course.

I would not expect the avreage "golfer" to know this about action shooting, they do NOT run while swinging that driver, 7 Iron or sand wedge. When was the last time you saw Tiger run flat out on the putting green and enter a putting position and just nail the put?

[shred]

They physical game is different but the mental one is very similar. It's wierd.

[Copland]

yes, this is the fascinating different sports were your achievements depends on your mind set.

My golf improvement is several strokes. Best improvement is in putting en hitting my driver, which I was afraid of because of bad previous performance. Especially the putting when it really counts in the last few holes. Your correct that normal play isn't much affected by this.

It's not just about a pounding heart its more about the rhytm it's pounding in.

You can perform action a 1 mile running away from a group of angry people wanting to beat you up. or you can run a 1 mile because you want to for your workout. I think your stress levels are different.

maybe not the best argument, I hope you get what I'm trying to tell.

Rick

[Jake Di Vita]

I don't think the zone is something that can be consciously attained.

The zone is what happens when you are collecting maximum input from all of your senses, and usually, by the very nature of what the zone is - trying to get to it is exactly how not to.

[Copland]

Hi Jake


I agree just trying to get in to the zone is not going to help you, well it did not help me. Knowing how you can prepare yourself in an optimal way, will get you there more often. Even then it is worth it. I was sceptical too. I get in the zone more often and it gets easier over time.

I have a technical background and the strenght of this concept is that you can see the feedback on the screen and correlate this to your state of mind. This what convinced me that it is possible to influence your state of mind in a positive way that improves your performance.

It's not voodoo or hypnosis.

Rick

[Flatland Shooter]

Jake Di Vita, on May 6 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

I don't think the zone is something that can be consciously attained.

Thats what I always thought. In those infrequent times when I am able to get into the zone, it is a thing of wonder. In those many times I try to get into the zone without success, its frustrating.

Anything I can do to improve my performance is worth the effort. And if www.heartmath.com will help, what is there to lose?

Thanks Copland.

Bill

p.s. Copland, I assume you used the services of Heartmath. If so, do you recommend one of the books or videos?

This post has been edited by Flatland Shooter: 06 May 2007 - 02:08 PM

[Copland]

Hi Bill


I have this book:


Transforming Stress: The HeartMath Solution For Relieving Worry, Fatigue, And Tension
by Doc Childre and Deborah Rozman, Ph.D.

STRESS-It's the quintessential buzz word of modern life. It hangs on everyone's lips from the first miles of the morning commute until the screeching alarm clock starts yet another day. Countless articles and studies tell the same story: lives controlled by unmanaged stress end early and none too well. This book describes a simple, straightforward method readers can learn and practice to literally transform stress by shifting the heart's own rhythms.

At the core of the HeartMath method of emotional regulation is the idea that, by focusing on positive feelings such as appreciation, care, or compassion, anyone can create dramatic changes in his or her heart rhythms. These changes precipitate a series of neural, hormonal, and biochemical events that dissipate stress and anger and lead to greater well-being. The benefits from using this system are remarkable and far-reaching: blood pressure drops, stress hormone levels fall, immune system activity increases, and anti-aging hormone levels rise. Through its interactive learning system, this book teaches readers to use the HeartMath method, enabling them to see and experience in real time how thoughts and emotions affect their heart rhythms. It teaches them how to engage their hearts to bring emotion, body, and mind into balance, and helps them stay in a zone of focused clarity, optimal health, and high performance. Changes brought about through this method are fast-acting and long-lasting-the perfect antidote to our chaotic and fast-paced lives.

Product Details

* Paperback: 150 pages
* Publisher: New Harbinger Publications
* ISBN: 157224397X

I found it helpfull it explaines the techniiques you can use and the science behind the theory.

I also use the freeze framer software (seeing is believing) and I have a

Managing Emotions: Golf's Next Frontier Booklet
Based on research by Doc Childre and the Institute of HeartMath

If you are a passionate golfer, you can appreciate the pleasurable emotional state associated with playing at the peak of your game. You also understand how emotional blowups or meltdowns can quickly override and undo the results of countless hours of practice. A new, illustrated, 60-page book explains how you can achieve and maintain optimal emotional states for extended periods of time-even in the heat of intense competition. You'll learn HeartMath's Quick Coherence? technique for emotional balance and high performance in golf. It's easily integrated into practice routines, just like chipping, putting, ball striking, etc., and will help you maintain your energy, avoid errors due to emotional judgments and inner turbulence, shoot lower scores, and stay at peak longer.


If you want to learn more I sugest the book and reading the heartmath site and maybe there is a clinic at a local golfcourse you can attend. After reading the book and maybe attending a demonstration you can choose if you want to use software or anything else.

Regards,
Rick

[Flatland Shooter]

Thank you Rick.

Bill

[benos]

Crusher, on May 6 2007, 06:33 AM, said:

With the exception of action shooters of course.

I would not expect the avreage "golfer" to know this about action shooting, they do NOT run while swinging that driver, 7 Iron or sand wedge. When was the last time you saw Tiger run flat out on the putting green and enter a putting position and just nail the put?

Having never swung a club, I learned a lot from golf books over the years. Especially on topics like managing your self talk and "where to place your attention," in order create the best conditions for what you want to happen to happen.

I've always felt golfers may be one of the better groups overall at managing match stress. Because they have sooo much time to think between shots. And of course they are super-high profile. But what about if there was "Comstock Golf"? That would alter the golfer's mental (and physical) approach massively. But that still wouldn't create the challenge offered by IPSC shooting. When the buzzer goes off so many things have to be done precisely, at maximum speed, and within a short time period. And then you get to think about it forever until the buzzer goes off again.
be

[j1b]

The mental game between IPSC and golf is so similar it's scary. They are both largely mental. And both extremely demanding in the physical sense.

You could make comparisons about why one is harder than the other all day long. Reality is that they are both extremely difficult.

I've been golfing quite a bit over the years. Obviously I've shot quite a bit of IPSC. They are equally challenging (golf moreso for me).

And I will note that TGO himself said he played golf when he could - because it helped his mental game out for shooting . . .

J

[Flexmoney]

Copland, on May 6 2007, 03:31 PM, said:

It's not voodoo or hypnosis.

Rick

It does seem to go towards giving a tangible explanation of why those things (mental will) tend to have sticking power.

Basically, your state of mind...or mindset...can allow you to open/close your awareness, open/close your processing abilities.

Interesting stuff.

[XRe]

I learned how to be calm and detached on the golf course... that has been such a benefit for my shooting, I can't even describe it. Golf is superb cross training for the mental side of our game - and its one of those games you're never going to be perfect at, so it gives you plenty of room to grow...

What's cool is... my dad is a golfer. He's just gotten involved in playing in the Golf Channel Amateur Tour (which is an interesting program - lots of local/regional "tours", and then have majors, and a year end championship). Except for city tournaments and such, this is really the first organized set of competitions that he's played in - and he's building a lot of mental game skills now that "just playing" on the weekends (even for small bets) doesn't really give you. We've had a bunch of conversations recently about mind game stuff - and I've been able to share a lot of insight with him about what I've learned in shooting. What's more, today he emailed me - he was reading in the non-forum part of this site on Brian's thoughts on index and stance, and theorizing about how he can apply them to golf So, it goes both ways...

[raz-0]

Jake Di Vita, on May 6 2007, 10:35 AM, said:

I don't think the zone is something that can be consciously attained.

The zone is what happens when you are collecting maximum input from all of your senses, and usually, by the very nature of what the zone is - trying to get to it is exactly how not to.

If you think it can't be consciously attained, then you are probably right.

Self-fulfilling beliefs and all.

When I was still very active with martial arts, getting in the zone wasn't hard after a couple of years of practice. I also have to say that being able to get into the zone most of the time came as a result of a lot of practice and now that I think about it using biofeedback, albeit very rudimentary.

I'm not finding the USPSA thing quite as easy to get my head around. I think a larg portion of it is that a tool has been added to the equation, and it complicates things. The feedback from hand-to-hand is very direct an kinesthetic. Feeling if you are getting a lock right, or throwing a punch right is like deciding if the light in a room is good. Shooting is more like trying to pick which color is more pleasing.

[j1b]

I'm not really familiar with the zone. I don't know what it is, what it feels like to be there, or what it gets me.

Somedays I shot well. Somedays I didn't. At the end of the day, I knew one thing. If I was smooth and I payed attention to the sights - everything would work out A ok.

To me, the zone must be like those wierd pictures in the early 90's - that if you looked for the image you couldn't see it, but if relaxed your eyes and just "gazed" at the picture it would pop out at you. They have to be similar, in that you can't get into the zone if you're focused on it. You've got to focus on other things in such a way that you simply get into the zone.

Is that right? Cause honestly, I've never been in a state where I was disconnected, or unconcious about what was taking place in the shooting.

I got to thinking about that today after my post on the whole golf similarities thing (realizing I'd strayed off topic)

J

[Jake Di Vita]

I would say that the analogy with the images is actually pretty close.

For me though, I wouldn't call it being disconnected or unconcious about what was happening, but more along the lines of it just happening without me doing anything.

What the zone was for me was this: I would program myself to shoot alphas as quickly as possible, and if I was in the zone, it would just happen. Almost as if you could just hit a button labeled "auto-run."

I don't know if that makes any sense...this is something that doesn't get put into words very easily.

[Lee]

I was in the zone for exactly 6.49 seconds in Sundays AP match.

6 plates at 25yds with a 9sec par time and virginia count from surrender position. Previous run was bad, missed 3 of 6 from trying too hard. Stood there with my eyes closed for a minute or so while 3 other shooters shot. Not thinking or feeling, just listening. I was already down 9 plates so it didn't matter much. My turn, buzzer went off and I just watched the sight bounce and go to the plates as the gun fired. Hit 6 of 6 plates in 6.49sec with 2.51sec left with no effort or trying or pushing or anything other than just letting it happen. This has happened plenty before, but it always suprises me.

[Joe4d]

That wasnt "The zone" that was "The Force" ............. Trust your instincts Luke. Feel the Force allow it to flow.

[XRe]

Its not something you can go looking forward or somehow make happen. Its something you have to let happen... Its not disconnection or unconsciousness - it is total and complete awareness and focus. It just about getting that higher monkey mind out of the way and letting the rest of the body (the part that actually knows what its doing) do the job....

[j1b]

Interesting perspectives.

I'm not certain I ever got there. Maybe I did - if so I don't remember it. It kind of implies shooting a little above yourself. Or maybe that isn't said right - maybe shooting at 99-100% of what you're capable of????

Shooting is wierd like that though. I remember shooting a stage at the nationals and shot it as clean as I thought I possibly could. I remember thinking - that was a stage win. It wasn't. I was like 5th.

Then, one year (different nationals) I was shooting a stage and I nearly tripped and fell out of the first box. Transitions in the last box were clumsy and a little slow. Won the stage.

I don't know if I was in the zone on either of those. And I recognize a stage win doesn't mean in the zone or not. Still - if I had guessed which stage I was in the zone on and which I wasn't - I probably would have been wrong. Actually - I probably wasn't in the zone on either.

I like the concept. Shooting at an unconcious level (kind of like how Matt Damon got in Legend of Bagger Vance when he had to hit those perfect shots). Hopefully one day I'll finish a stage and just realize I was there. If not - at least I'll have gotten to fumble my way through what I paid for

[Flexmoney]

j1b, on May 10 2007, 09:14 PM, said:

kind of like how Matt Damon got in Legend of Bagger Vance when he had to hit those perfect shots

...

I watched that movie again a week or so ago...just for the reasons we are posting about here.

I think those perfect shots were there all along...he just allowed himself to get to a place where he could shoot them. Execution of the shot...not being deluded by the crowd.

[gunsablazin]

I never realise I was in the zone until after the stage is over. If everything happened in slow motion and very smooth I was there, If it happens once a match I feel I have been blessed with something special. It is not something I can cause to happen but seems far more likely when I focus on just shooting and not thinking about performance. If I ever got to where I could do that on demand I could famous!

Robin

[AikiDale]

XRe, on May 10 2007, 08:47 AM, said:

Its not something you can go looking forward or somehow make happen. Its something you have to let happen... Its not disconnection or unconsciousness - it is total and complete awareness and focus. It just about getting that higher monkey mind out of the way and letting the rest of the body (the part that actually knows what its doing) do the job....

Dave is right on target here. It is about being aware and allowing.

[JThompson]

Jake Di Vita, on May 6 2007, 12:35 PM, said:

I don't think the zone is something that can be consciously attained.

The zone is what happens when you are collecting maximum input from all of your senses, and usually, by the very nature of what the zone is - trying to get to it is exactly how not to.

Or you're just too damned tired and quit trying to get there and shoot.

[ahtsay]

Jake Di Vita, on May 10 2007, 08:43 AM, said:

For me though, I wouldn't call it being disconnected or unconcious about what was happening, but more along the lines of it just happening without me doing anything.

This is how I feel too, just not often enough. The best way for me to screw up a match is to be "thinking" of my every move...usually once I make a mistake, the house of cards just crumbles from there