[trkychsr]

Brian you mentioned somewhere here that you use transparent tape (like scotch tape). Is this correct or do you actually use electrical tape or duct tape?

[shred]

Scotch tape is the one to use.  Best is the standard translucent-but-not-completely-transparent type.

[Automatic]

This may or may not help anyone, but it works for me.
I use standaed shooting glasses and Oakleys, depending on inside or outside. I wear reading glasses for, duh, reading and some computer work, But reading glasses don't work for me for shooting. I discovered little half-moon lenses in the drug store that you position on the inside of your glasses (wet lens, wet glasses lens, position, press, blot). I use a moderate magnification for my dominent eye ONLY. The lens is positioned at my natural sight line, the glasses are down a smidge on my nose, allowing me to see normally, but when it's time to shoot, I push the glasses up a bit, bringing my sight picture up crisp and clear. I know it sounds complicated, but it's now 2nd nature. This has worked well for me, I even had a eye doctor make a pair of perscription glasses for me that were for shooting and they don't work as well as this system. The lenses come on various strengths and are in most drugstores in the reading glasses display, $20.

[Jake Di Vita]

I just tried placing scotch tape on my glasses. I was absolutely shocked how much faster and easier I was able to acquire the FS. It also takes away much of the temptation to look at the target. Thanks a lot!

[mcoliver]

TIS, do you usually shoot with both eyes open and just did the scotch tape thing as an experiment or do you really have trouble keeping both eyes open when shooting? :) Thanks.

[raven02003]

I shoot with both eyes open. I use one to look at the target and the other to look at my sights. You may at first thimk this is crazy but, it seem to help me see the target thus see where my shot have hit with out wasting time. I found this way to be the most helpful for me.

[raven02003]

  Take a look at this article/post


http://www.brianenos...d...17&topic=97

[eric nielsen]

Taping one eye - my 2c worth:

I've worked for a huge multi-national optical company since 1996. Job required me to take every optics course they give. I shot USPSA, iron sites & tape, 1991 to 1993. Took a break. Went iron sites without tape 1996 to 1998. Optics 1998 to 2002. Won a Glock. Iron sites & tape, 2003.

3D I agree with a post by Brian that we DON'T NEED to see in 3 dimensions to shoot good scores. It doesn't matter if it's a 6" scoring zone at 10 yards or 60" scoring zone at 100 yards. Either one looks the same around your dot or front sight, either one requires the same stability of hold to hit. (more on this later)

Eye Dominance Gets too much press on here, IMHO. If a doctor tells you that your vision is 20/20 in both eyes, or 20/40 (no astigmatism or disease) in both eyes, either way you don't have a dominance issue. Your eyes see equally well and either one can be trained to "lead" or "follow".

Image Rejection This is the actual issue that most shooters are having to tackle. The visual processing areas of your brain DO NOT LIKE to see 2 different images of the same object. A child that is born with lazy eye (diverging focus) will see 2 versions of EVERY object. If the condition is not caught and corrected early, the child's brain will just shut off the processing of all images from one eye. Take your kids to the eye doctor early & annually.

Anyway, for shooting sports we do this: one eye sees a gun between the eye & target, one does not. With optics, this is no big deal because the lens and the dot are almost transparent, we focus out at a distance, and the brain just sort of combines the images. It's when we use iron sites and focus on the front sight that the brain rebels.

The brain hates seeing this: a sharp view of a square-on front sight, with another front site in 3/4 view off to one side. The apparent distance between these 2 front sight images zooms in and out as we change focus. More discontent from the brain. Then we ask the brain to stay "aware of" a hazy target, that is partially covered by the "good" front sight, and off to the OTHER side floats a hazy target that is NOT covered by a sight at all.

If you are a NORMAL person, the above situation bothers you. If you are The Great One or maybe your name is Blake, your brain Just Don't Care - lucky you. The rest of us can shoot irons with one eye shut (good) or with transparent tape that starts blocks our hands and wrist from view (better).

I found that dry-firing on mini-targets of varying sizes a short distance away is just as good as practicing real targets at a distance, FOR OPEN DIVISION SHOOTING. For iron sights, the need to change focus from 50' down to 2' and back out again, this is not simulated as well indoors. I believe that practice at a range and in matches is more critical for the improvement of iron sight shooting. JMHO

[MattBurkett]

Quote

Eye Dominance Gets too much press on here, IMHO. If a doctor tells you that your vision is 20/20 in both eyes, or 20/40 (no astigmatism or disease) in both eyes, either way you don't have a dominance issue. Your eyes see equally well and either one can be trained to "lead" or "follow".

Some people are heavily dominant, some aren't. Even if there vision quality is the same with both eyes, I do not believe that you can retrain someones dominance as easily as you think. Have you ever done it? Have you ever worked with anyone on this issue? I would find it most interesting if you could retrain someones natural dominance.

I am one of the lucky ones, my brain "shuts off" the secondary image so I shoot both eyes open. It didn't start out that way. The more I focused on what I wanted, the more my brain took care of the job for me. It is the rare situation that I close one eye. I even shoot rifle scopes with both eyes open.

Do I think both eyes being open is nec? It maybe overrated, but, that is what I do and what nearly all of the top shooters do. In fact other than Brian and Tommy, I can't think of anyone else that has done well shooting with only one eye open.

Best of luck,

[B.J. Norris]

Matt,

I believe Jerry Miculek shoots one-eyed.

I shoot with one eye, I tried 2 eyed, no matter what I do, I always see 2 rear sights, 2 front sights, and a second slide for the sights to go on......... So I pitched the 2 eyed shooting. I do not feel that I have been held back by one eye. The only time I have one eye closed is when I'm firing. Movement, reloads, pretty much everything else is done with 2 eyes.

[benos]

Nice post Eric.
I agree with Matt - "Some people are heavily dominant, some aren't." And from my experience it's difficult if not impossible to re-train someone who's heavily dominant. It would seem logical that the strength of the dominance could influence "image rejection." But I'm far from an eye expert, however.

Just for the sake of confusion, , I just checked my dominance using the "making a circle out of your finger and thumb and circling an object with it" technique. At any distance beyond about 2 feet pass the end of my arm, I come up left-eyed every time, using either hand. This has never happened before; I always test right-eyed dominant. If I circle something up close (about arms length), however, my right eye comes up?
I've noticed, over the last several years, that my "distance vision" in my right eye has deteriorated, which is why I trained to shoot with my left eye for the last several years. I wonder if this could be an influencing factor?
be

[eric nielsen]

Thanks to both Brian and Matt. You're both correct, I have not trained shooters to change a true eye dominance, the more I think about it, it sounds VERY difficult to do.

I have 20/15 vision in both eyes, and other than wrist position I don't mind shooting with either eye. Non-dominant. So my problem - and my talking with other shooters says its the most common problem; curious what Brian & Matt will say - my problem is that my brain does not WANT to reject what either eye is seeing, it wants to consolidate them and build one stereo image out of both eyes. Since this is not possible shooting iron sights, as a shooter I just waste a lot of time on target purely out of uncertainty. With tape over the left eye the uncertainty vanishes.

[MattBurkett]

caspian28r, on Mar 31 2003, 07:30 PM, said:

immediately ticked off a bunch of middle-aged men (I was a 26 yr old Navy squid back then.)

roflmao done that repeatedly when I was starting out. My best award ever after shooting five months and winning my first match (wasn't even classified) was a 20 sandbag for beating 5 Masters. (Yeah, showing my age now, they didn't have GM class then.)

"just last week got DVD Volume 4. Wow. If these guys say it, do yourself a favor and do it until you can prove with targets and timers that they are wrong. Won't happen very often."

Thanks for the compliments! Glad you enjoyed it! If you have any idea's for more vids, drop them at
Matt's Practical Shooting Forums.

Take care and good luck!

[bountyhunter]

raven02003, on Nov 13 2002, 04:04 PM, said:

I shoot with both eyes open. I use one to look at the target and the other to look at my sights. You may at first thimk this is crazy but, it seem to help me see the target thus see where my shot have hit with out wasting time. I found this way to be the most helpful for me.

Me too. On the subject of eye dominance, I tried for some time to cross train from my natural RH eye dominance to the left eye and gave up after a hile (because my right eye is not as good). I gave up after a while. My eye left kept twitching and jerking, would not hold focus on the front sight. I must be heavily right eye dominant.

[bountyhunter]

MattBurkett, on Mar 30 2003, 10:35 PM, said:

Do I think both eyes being open is nec? It maybe overrated, but, that is what I do and what nearly all of the top shooters do. In fact other than Brian and Tommy, I can't think of anyone else that has done well shooting with only one eye open.

Best of luck,

Really? I didn't know that. Good to know, I thought I was strange because every body kept saying you can't do it. I guess it's lucky I started doing it before anybody told me I couldn't.

[Ron Ankeny]

As a balding, fat, middle aged, guy who can't see for crap, I get some of my greatest rewards from beating up on the young guys in their 20's. It feels good to school these guys really hard... If it was the other way around, you know if I was in my physical prime, young and energetic, I just don't think I could get a lot of enjoyment out of beating up on Team Geritol.

[Flexmoney]

Young...old, fat...skinny, bald...hairy like Big Foot......

You are all equally worthless in my eyes. You maggots are stinking up my obstacle course.

[eric nielsen]

LMAO, Flex! Outstanding.

[MattBurkett]

Here is a quote for you: "Whos the dummy now???"

Anyone?
BTW flex, you crack me up!

[Steve Anderson]

I trained myself to shoot both eyes open with a pop can on a string at 30 feet, indoors.

Before I shot any competition I did this for 2-3 hours every Monday night with a .22 (didn't reload yet)

I learned a great deal about acceptable sight picture doing that, BTW.

I never tried taping a lense in the one-eye days, but I noticed a great sense of relaxation in not having to hold the one eye closed for all that time.

I sucked supreme for the first couple of sessions, but soon the brain got the picture and now I see what I want to see in the sight piture. ( not to imply constant success, btw )

It's another case of do what works for you...but maybe try both ways???

I just wanted to mention less facial stress as a benefit...

SA

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

Here is a quote for you: "Who's the dummy now???"

Anyone?

Damon Wayans. Major Payne.

[MattBurkett]

Duane! YOU DA MAN!

How about this one!
"What, wash day? No clothes?"

[eric nielsen]

never mind...

This post has been edited by caspian28r: 16 April 2005 - 09:02 AM

[Garfield]

Hi,

I've read Brian's book and some more stuff about using one or two eyes.

After target shooting for a few years, I'm shooting IPSC now since a year or so.
I've always used my dominant (right) eye by closing the left one. I'm right handed. So far so good.

Now, since 2-3 weeks I'm trying to keep both eyes open while shooting.

What I've experienced is that it seems to take more time to acquire the target as there is some "discussion" upon which sight picture to accept. But, after this very slight delay the sight picture is there. ONE sight picture.

But then, upon shooting, most of my shots end up on the LEFT side of the intended POI. At 25 meters they are about 15-25 cm to the left.
BTW I shoot a G17 with fixed sights, so nothing is wrong there.
Yesterday I verified my shooting by using my right eye again for some shots, and I was right back on the intended POI again.

I'm a bit in doubt now. I do think 2-3 weeks trying is maybe a bit short to give up on two-eyed shooting, but I would like to know what is happening. As all my shots end up left of the POI, obviously something is going wrong, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Does anyone have any help on this matter ?

Best Regards,

Arvid

[Skywalker]

Garfield,
I made the transition from one-eyed shooting to two-eyed shooting this winter: it took me 3/4 months to get comfortable with it; I mean same times/precision on targets than before.
I too used the tape trick on the beginning, then (after a month or so) I quit it and strained myself to keep both eyes open and the dominant one focused on front sight.
Now I am really much more proficient in movements on long courses: no more wasted time walking or running around, I think I have gained a full second on a 18 secs. stage.
Most important, I can now arrive at a shooting position in the right place, engaging the target while slowing down: when I shot one-eyed, I was wasting a lot of time looking for targets because I didn't walk the correct path.

Regarding your point of aim shift, I suspect you are not getting a correct sight picture when breaking the shot: I mean, shooting with both eyes open, you are probably not aligning the front sight in the centre of the rear sight window, but slighty on the left side of it.

I guess the problem is that you are unconsciously focusing on the target rather than the front sight (been there, done that too).

During live-fire training sessions, for the first times try to leave the timer in your bag and concentrate on sight picture alone.