[benos]

We had a suggestion to have a place to post your classifier scores. Good idea. Down the road, this could be a great reference. If you start the post, I'd suggest using the name of the classifier as the title. Be sure to enter it correctly because the title is not editable. After establishing a thread for a particular classifier, enter your best score and then as you improve you can edit/update your scores in your post.
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[Patrick Sweeney]

Doesn't the USPSA say they don't want the high factor published?  (Not that doing the math is any great feat.)

[benos]

Pat,
I have no clue. Would that be different from an individual's personal best? (Assuming Todd doesn't start posting.)
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[Kevin Kline]

Brian,
I don't know for sure about the USPSA thing and not wanting HHF posted, but I've heard others talk about it before. I disagree with it.

As long as the classifiers are shot by the rules (and I know this is a big key phrase), there shouldn't be a problem. Here in the Tampa Bay area, the clubs allow us to shoot them once and unless you have a letter from God, you won't be shooting them again. Everyone is pretty fair in shooting them only once and recording the scores correctly.

If USPSA would only allow you to shoot it once, it really wouldn't matter if you knew what the HHF is or not. If you don't have the skill to get the score, you ain't getting it. I like the idea of being able to go home and that day, know what my percentage is. I like the individual best thing Brian.

Kevin/IPSC Supercop

[Rich Bagoly]

I think the idea of not publishing hit factors is to make it harder for the sandbaggers.

The world class bagger wants to shoot the classifier in a way that will manage his percentage.  He will want to to keep it low before a big match.  Simply blowing the classifier will drag down the match score, and will not reduce his percentage.  If he knows what hit factor = 100%, he can practice to shoot exactly the score he needs.

I am surprised that anyone cares about the grandbaggers.  They are not taking awards that are not deserved.

There is no satisfaction in holding a class rating that does not reflect what you can shoot in a match.  

[IPSC Supercop]

Rich,
I agree whole heartedly, but I think part of this is due to the grandbagger. Also, I would like to see them start taking your percentage, either for the entire major match or a hidden classifier stage at a major match, and making that your percentage and if you are shooting it higher than your current percentage or class, then you are moved up.

I just don't get it. Are there really that many prizes and that much money available throughout the year to make from major matches? Nothing against USPSA or the sponsors, God knows I love them and we wouldn't have anything if it weren't for them (THANK YOU GUYS), but there is not that much out there to sandbag for, how much can you possibly be making?

This is why I would like to see them start a system like I described. You would win money and/or prizes ONCE at a big match before they caught up to you and moved you up. Not only that, I don't think the sandbaggers are really that good at being able to know your time while you are shooting and know exactly how many points they have and add them up while they are shooting at the same time. The problem with sandbaggers is that when they plan to throw a stage to keep their classification, they trash it good to make sure, and they are already doing this now, so I don't think publishing the HHF is going to hurt.

Kevin/IPSC Supercop

[John Thompson]

I shoot with a certain shameless sandbagger who doesn't even deny he is one.  Most shooters won't even talk to him.  He shoots every state campionship and regional and wins in open class.  The guy will win or be in the top three on every stage except the classifer. He is without a doubt the most blatant sandbagger ever and when some local club presidents sent a letter to the USPSA to get the guy kicked up, the request(so I was told) was denied.

[Kevin Kline]

John,
I understand exactly what you are saying. First off, USPSA shouldn't ignore and disregard the letter from the Club President and other shooters. They should take this with some credit.

Secondly, if they had a hidden classifier stage or the percentage for the entire match went, not just for one classifier shot, but the actual percentage now became your classification percentage, he would only win once in a big match before he was moved up.


Kevin/IPSC Supercop

[Philadelphia Gunman]

From what I've read on the USPSA website it seems like they aren't concerned with people knowing the high power factors becuase they will use that to sandbag. What the USPSA is concerned with is other shooting sports (IPDA) getting free access to high power factors.

I spent an hour last night calculating the high power factors for 6 stages in an attempt to find out what class I will be in. If I could only get numbers for 99-30 and 99-51 I could know for sure if I am a C or D. The suspense is killing me.

[BSeevers]

Sandbaggers lack Honor. That is one of the few things that you can own, no matter what, as a person. Thats between them and their conscience. As to prizes we have caught people cheating to win a club match, no money.
I have thought about this and think there is no way to keep a B/C sandbagger out.  Usually A/M gets moved up because the differences in skill are closer. Maybe a Pro/Non Pro separation. No not another division!!


(Edited by BSeevers at 4:53 pm on April 26, 2002)

[shred]

Years ago we had a small plague of classifier sandbaggers at club matches.  What we did was set up two of the (usually 5) stages as classifiers, and only sent one in-- we didn't say which one until after the match.  Some went away, some shaped up, some got moved up anyway.
 

[Flexmoney]

How 'bout everyone posting their class along with their times on these test...and state if it is a Limted or Open gun.  

[Kevin Kline]

I agree, sounds like a good idea. We should post our class, and make sure and describe the type of stage or skill and rules to it so everyone is performing the same thing as well as Open or Limited.