Payment Option Changes And New Products, on brianenos.com Options

[benos]

I just added 5 of Saul's match coverage DVDs to my Online Store. All but the newest "Med Cup" DVDs are in stock, and the Med Cup's should be here any day.

I also added 3 new payment options into my Store's Checkout Page. You can now select to Mail or Fax your order, then you can either print the store page or submit it to me via email. I think that should be a pretty handy feature.

You can also now select to pay via PayPal from the Checkout Page. We'll see how that works out....

I'd be interested to know, if anyone just happens to know this so I don't have to do the research - how much just accepting PayPal will increase business. One one hand, PayPal is my least preferred payment option because I get better rates from my merchant acount. But on the other hand, if a customer makes a purchase that he wouldn't have if I didn't accept PayPal, that's a good thing.
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[K-9]

Hey Brian, Personally, I hate paypal and I refuse to get an account although a long time ago I did have one for maybe 2 weeks. never used it. I also tried doing that route for something on my old website and I had many people throughout the world not want to start a paypal account. However; many people do have one. So Go Figure! I also have heard some not so good things over the years about paypal and also things that had to do with either the seller getting screwed or the customer getting screwed. maybe it was they did not backup the customer getting their products or getting the Quality of products that the customer assumed they were getting or some such thing. Personally, I am not a paypal dude!

Good luck! I hope this is what you were looking for re: comments.

[XRe]

I (reluctantly) use PayPal for my photo stuff because I don't typically do enough business to warrant a credit card setup here at my house. It can be a pain for people who aren't computer literate (ie, they can't read... ).

PayPal is, of course, anti-gun - thus my reluctance. Frankly, they're currently the market leader, in my estimation, so...

I don't know how much it'll add for you - best way is to see what happens, I guess....

[K-9]

addendum note: I may be wrong but I thought I heard or read a week or two ago that paypal is owned by Ebay? or some such thing.... and NO I am not trying to spread rumors.

[benos]

Thanks for the input. I the FWIT department... I don't have any personal preferences concerning accepting paypal. For years, I've had the option of paying via paypal in my store, I just made it a little harder for the customer because, like I mentioned, I prefer to use my merchant account because of the time I put in to setting it up and that they give me a better rate. I've been accepting paypal, and I'll continue accepting paypal. What I'm wondering is, since I've now made it as easy to checkout using paypal as it is with a credit card, what sort of affect might that have on my business. Unless I eventually get a better rate with paypal - if a customer makes a purchase with paypal but would have used his visa if I didn't accept paypal (or if he had to work for it to use paypal) - that is not a good thing for me. But of course if a customer buys something from me that he wouldn't have bought if I didn't take paypal, that is a good thing. So I guess I'm wondering how those two scenarios offset each other.
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[BritinUSA]

What you could do is instead of listing PayPal as an option, show an option that says click here if you don't have a credit card and then the link takes them to PayPal.

So those that have a CC will use it and those that don't (the other customers that you want to attract) can use the PayPal option that is hidden behind the 'I Don't have a credit card' link...

[kimel]

You may also want to talk to your bank about taking e-checks. No CC needed...just a checking account.

Yes, PayPal is an member of the eBay family.

[smokshwn]

Brian,

Aside from all of the political concerns with paypal there is a risk associated simply from their size of operation. They are constantly targeted by scammers trying to get your info and thus access to your money. Several years ago I lost about $1800 dollars to them. I got it back however their customer service in this area sucks. I swore to not use them again. Just recently my partner's info was compromised and $9800 was taken from his bank accounts. His bank was very helpful but the process through paypal sucked.

I say this with the thought that there is an amount of risk if youa re tryin to attract a buyer. If they use a service on your sight and they are compromised they may disassociate from the whole thing. Is the gain of customers worht the potential few that may get burned????? I don't have an answer but I know that 3 years after my incident the mere sign of paypal pisses me off.

Just a thought or two.

Craig

[Paule]

Not only is Paypal anti-gun, they will freeze your account and hold any monies there for as long as six months if you violate their self-serving and ever changing policies. We started using them when they said "no guns". We didn't sell guns via Paypal, not ever. But they morphed into a defacto policy of nothing gun-related. At the time we had 30-40k per month in Paypal sales, fortunately I cleared the account daily. They decided that pistol grip was not PC enough for them and locked our account. Read their agreement. They reserve the right to do this and you have no recourse, none.

Our CC payments went up dramatically and Paypal lost all our business. That was two years ago. No regrets, as stated, their customer service sucks.

Good news, the little ad links in the rightside column of every Google search page? The ones that direct you to eBay when you are searching for heavy equipment operators in your locale? Well, those ads cost eBay $1.40 every time you click-through on one of them. I click 'em all.

[Jasonub]

You can put if you do not have a credit card click on the anti gun link to pay via paypal short for "pay up pal"

[Genghis]

I'm a lawyer and I represent some companies that do business on the Net, including some e-commerce. But none of this is legal advice.

Most Net shoppers are concerned about convenience. So as long as you have a convenient payment method (Paypal, credit card, or whatever), they won't care. Remember, the attention span of Internet users is measured in seconds. One holdup and they move on.

I've heard of some serious problems using Paypal to pay for gun stuff. One serious problem will erase any benefit from your payment system. Paypal is a bureaucracy, so one transaction may go through and another may run into problems.

If you do use Paypal, you might set up a separate account JUST for incoming Paypal payments. Withdraw the money regularly, and leave $50 or so in the account. That way if they do try to freeze your money, you limit the damage.

[SiG Lady]

What he said about keeping a small balance in your PayPal account works for ME. (I use it for eBay sales). I keep barely $20-30 balance in there most of the time; I keep the attached checking account cleared out to a very small balance as well. The PayPal account, therefore, is as isolated and puny as I can make it. If anything went south with all of it, the cash losses would be rather minimal.

[Cactustactical]

Brian,
we would also advise against accepting Paypal, but do as you wish. Sadly, you will probably learn the hard way in the near future like most of us have.

Our story is the same as others, we never accepted Paypal for any gun sales. It did not matter, they froze our account because we accepted Paypal for gun related items, just like you do. When they freeze an account, they do it with no warning and send you an email telling you of the freeze after the fact.

Once this happens, don't bother trying to get in contact with someone and figure out what the issue is. They don't answer any emails that are sent to them. And the woman that staffs their "Customer Service" line is unable to help anyone who has their account frozen. She is sympathetic, but says that a self contained autonomous department handles "policy violations" and pretty much do as they please and can not be over-ridden.

They froze our account with around $1400 in it ( 2 days activity) and were non-responsive as mentioned above until we had our lawyer draft a letter to them advising of pending court actions. Odd, but the funds in our account was released inside of a week with no notice.

This story is not unique, it has probably happened 100's of times this year to people that deal on any level in the firearms industry. I honestly can not imagine why anyone would want to get involved with or support Paypal knowing of their policies, it is like playing russian roulette with your money.

This post has been edited by Cactustactical: Jun 9 2006, 08:48 PM

[K-9]

Just a casual observation. On GlockTalk there are a lot of people that try to buy stuff with Paypal, but also that many more people that do not want to deal with paypal accounts. People seem to shy away from PayPal! They are your PAL alright!!!

Be careful! we all like and respect you and do not want you to get taken. That is OUR INSTINCT and experience talking.

best wishes,

K-9

[benedict1]

Brian, I am completely new in the Forum, just starting to shoot and reload. I have had a lot of experience with PayPal, all good. There is a lot of phishing going on against PayPal users, though and you have to watch your email In-Basket for fraudulent requests.

Having said all this, because of their virulent anti-gun positions, and they are part of the French-owned eBay outfit, I am closing my account. But there is another option out there you might want to try. It is called Bill Me Later--I started using it to buy stuff from Cabela's. I have no idea what they charge the merchant. What it does, if a buyer has an account with Bill Me Later is just what the name says--buy now, pay later with no exposure of your credit card to the merchant. I just got my bill today for several purchases from Cabela's, wrote a check and sent it off.

Here is the link to their website http://www.bill-me-later.com/wss/index.do

[benos]

Thanks again for all the feedback.

The only reason I've had the PayPal option in my store (for 5 years) is because, now and then, a customer said they'd buy something if I took PayPal. So if that customer was happy with their PayPal account, and wanted to make a purchase from be with it - why not allow them. But the added work involved with every PayPal sale (compared to my Merchant Account) in addition to their higher transaction fees was not that attractive business-wise, but I did it anyway.

Beside the apparent fact that they can put a nazi-like freeze on my account - what gets to me the most is their horrible reputation for service/support. I haven't had to deal with that yet, but if I did I'd imagine that one encounter would be all it took for me to shut them down.

So maybe I should just get it over with and do that now. And I can link this thread in my store as to why I don't take PayPal.

[benos]

If I emailed PayPal with something like: "Here's a link to my web store. Are there any products in it that would justify freezing my account, by the selling of them, through PayPal?"

Would anyone even respond?
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[benos]

I just sent PayPal this:

Hello,

Are there any products in my web store:
http://www.brianenos.com/store/home.html
...that would justify freezing of my account, by the selling of them, through PayPal?

While I do sell firearm related accessories - shooting books and DVDs, reloading equipment, and firearm accessories such as sights and magazines, etc. - I do not nor ever will sell firearms or ammunition. Several firearm-related business associates, however, have told me that my PayPal account may be frozen at any time, based on the products available for sale in my Online Store, if purchased through PayPal.

There is a lot of hearsay on the internet regarding your no-firearms related policy. So please check the product categories in my online store and respond as cleary and concisely as possible.

Thank you,
Brian Enos
(877) 219-5598

From PayPal's Firearms and Weapons Policy page - the only thing I see that could loosely be interpreted to apply to any item in my store is this vague sentence:

You may not use PayPal to purchase or sell any firearm receivers or frames, components and parts of receivers and frames...

Since some Wilson Combat accessories attach to the frame, that could be construed to be a "part of a receiver or frame."

I'll post their response.
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[Cactustactical]

One thing to keep in mind if and when they do respond, is that the group which does their anti gun purges is not the same group which would be responding to your email. So, even if they do respond in the negative there is no guarantee that you will not get burnt in the future. When they froze our account, they could or would never give a specific example of what offended them, only that products we sell legally violated their "acceptable usage policy".

They do have a wild hair about magazines, going back to the assault weapons ban, and their staff has a lot of difficulty in determining what is actually a high cap and what isn't. From experience, that is something that they could find offensive on your site in the future.


On a good note, I did see that Google is beta testing their own version of a payment tool, similiar to Paypal. Yeah, I know Googs is just as bad, (they won't take firearms related ads for their PPC services), but it does create a more competitive market place. Paypal has been able to pull the stuff they do because there is no effective, realistic competition. Perhaps if Google rolls their own product out in a big way, Paypal and ebay won't be such asshats in the future.

This post has been edited by Cactustactical: Jun 10 2006, 02:28 PM

[DJPoLo]

You can also now select to pay via PayPal from the Checkout Page. We'll see how that works out....

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing how this works out for you. I just bought two DVDs from your store and chose the "PayPal" payment method. It took me all the way through the transaction and I even got an order confirmation from you, but I never saw how it was going to access my PayPal account.

-Chet

[mscott]

Yep, seems to still have a few bugs in the system. I just replied to Brian's e-mail and told him to cancel the order. I'll just order with a credit card from his store directly.

[benos]

Thanks guys.

Chet,
I just emailed you today's "incomplete PayPal order auto reply."

[benos]

I just turned off the pay via PayPal option in my store until I hear back from PayPal regarding the "freeze my account" issue.

In addition, it looks like it will be quite a bit more difficult to integrate it that option into my store the way I want it to work and appear than I originally thought. So that, combined with their horrible customer service reputation, has dropped the PayPal payment option down my list a bit.
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[Genghis]

One thing to keep in mind if and when they do respond, is that the group which does their anti gun purges is not the same group which would be responding to your email. So, even if they do respond in the negative there is no guarantee that you will not get burnt in the future.

[edited to close quote]

But having a written commitment NOT to freeze your account because you sell those items will give your lawyer some serious ammo to support a breach of contract or fraud claim if they do. Not legal advice, of course.

This post has been edited by Genghis: Jun 12 2006, 06:30 AM

[benos]

One thing to keep in mind if and when they do respond, is that the group which does their anti gun purges is not the same group which would be responding to your email. So, even if they do respond in the negative there is no guarantee that you will not get burnt in the future.

[edited to close quote]

But having a written commitment NOT to freeze your account because you sell those items will give your lawyer some serious ammo to support a breach of contract or fraud claim if they do. Not legal advice, of course.

Of course. Good idea... I thought of including wording to that effect in my initial inquiry to them. But decided not to because I figured, even if I got a response, I wouldn't ever get anything in writing - they could get out of that by saying that had no ability to monitor if I added new products (that would justify freezing my account) to my store since the "agreement."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As predicted, here's the "non-response":

Dear Brian Enos,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Hello my name is Katherine, I am sorry to hear about the situation
regarding the items you are selling, and understand your frustration and
concern over this issue. I will be happy to assist you with your
questions.

Unfortunately, I will not be able to check the items that you have in your
online store because of the my limited tools here. I have here a link that
you can click on that will lead you to an article related to your query.

You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm manufactured after 1898. Certain
related items and high-capacity ammunition magazines are also prohibited.

To view more details regarding the Acceptable Use Policy regarding
Firearms, Ammunition, Replicas and Militaria please click this link:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p..._frame-outside&
ed=firearms

Thank you for being part of the PayPal community.