Posted 11 February 2002 - 10:22 PM
Posted 12 February 2002 - 10:26 AM
A local shooter had one that wouldn't run. I think it started running when he started using heavy/hot loads. He has always had trouble reloading the mags; they don't drop free and slip right in like pistol or AR-15 mags. He has to yank them out and rock them in.
If they could be reloaded as fast as an AR-15, I'd ask that they be allowed only in Open division, not Limited.
Posted 12 February 2002 - 11:24 AM
Posted 12 February 2002 - 12:15 PM
Posted 12 February 2002 - 12:55 PM
Rules stiffle innovation. Competition filters out what works and what doesn't.
(TDean, is there an iconocode for someone stirring the pot?)
Posted 12 February 2002 - 03:21 PM
Maybe we should get rid of everything except open. How's that for stirring the pot? :)
Posted 12 February 2002 - 07:44 PM
That being said, I disagree with Erik and Storm. If the mags hold less than 8, they should be limited legal. A magazine is not a speedloader. Limited class does not equal no innovation. I know some very good 3 gunners who are considering using a kalishnikov shotgun solely to have the advantage of detachable box magazines. We'll see.
Posted 12 February 2002 - 10:40 PM
The mag release does appear to be the funky slow AK type. I don't know the 3 gun rules vey well, but the guns look limited to me Gee now if we can just weld a couple of 5 rounders together and get an 8 round big stick
Erik did you notice if the gun appeared to recoil much with the heavy loads?
By the way these are priced around $300 and there is a 22" barreled model that comes with 3 chokes.
Posted 13 February 2002 - 06:40 AM
I also agree that limited class should not equal no innovation. As long as the innovation is within the rules, great. Sometimes the rules create the innovation. Look at many of the major racing organizations. Every time they implement rules to slow things down, folks find creative ways to increase speed. The rules keep things interesting. Long wide dustcovers, tungsten guide rods & etc. are all creative ways to get an advantage while remaining within the rules.
Finally, I'm not necessarily against detachable magazines in Limited. But, I would consider them to be a speedloader. The question is, what will NROI consider them? If they say they're legal, fantastic. It just means somebody found a way to be innovative.
Posted 13 February 2002 - 07:24 AM
As for the mag release, I recall somebody in SGN advertizing an extended release that allowed one to drop an AK-47 mag using the index finger without taking your hand off the pistol grip (note: no pistol grips allowed on the Saiga). Still, there are ways around the problems of a stock Saiga (if we had given up on the 1911A1 due to "design problems", where would we be today?). I think the Saiga could be an excellent platform for an IPSC shotgun and no, it should not be bumped into open just for having a magazine. Open is also about dot sights and clamshells as well as speedloaders.
Posted 13 February 2002 - 11:16 AM
Posted 13 February 2002 - 11:49 AM
But man, A semiauto 12 gauge with a detachable mag and 3 chokes for $300 based on the sturdy Kalashnikov? That sounds ideal for limited, if they will hold up to the beating we give the scatterguns with the slugs.
Posted 13 February 2002 - 12:02 PM
Does a shotgun with a detachable magazine have the same tactical advantage as a shotgun used with speed loaders?
I would have to think it does offer the same tactical advantage. If you can get mags that hold 8+ then it seems like even more of an advantage.
Posted 13 February 2002 - 06:42 PM
The 5 round magazines I saw where at least 6 inches long, and made of plastic. If 8 or 10 round mags are avaliable now, they must be at least 10 or 11 inches long. That would seem to be a hand full to manipulate.
I would have to call a box magazine an ammo feeding device, or reloading device, (a.k.a. Speed Loader) and make it an Open Class item only. Limited Class calls for the hand loading of shells, no speed loaders.
Posted 13 February 2002 - 07:31 PM
(Edited by Flexmoney at 9:34 pm on Feb. 13, 2002)
Posted 13 February 2002 - 11:57 PM
Posted 14 February 2002 - 12:03 AM
Have they been too busy or was I misinformed?
Posted 19 February 2002 - 03:12 PM
But if nothing is done, I believe both proposals are due to expire (perhaps 2003 or 4??). Anyone have a copy of the code handy? I am not holding my breath on either provision lapsing; I think the bans will be here to stay, I'm sorry to say. D.
Posted 20 February 2002 - 12:11 PM
I don't have any specifics, just the impression we were given that with Bush there was light at the end of the tunnel. I'm only talking shooting politics here.
For the rest of the world a US election victory for shooters was a huge relief given, in our case, a socialist government.
I hope your 10rd mag rule is overturned.
Posted 20 February 2002 - 03:28 PM
Posted 20 February 2002 - 03:46 PM
Last time I checked short barrelled shotguns<24" were restricted weapons though semi auto capacity was only limited for 'game' shooting in the UK
In NZ semi shotguns and rifles are restricted to 7 in the mag or subject to registration, extra security, good reason etc. The guns OAL must be greater than 762mm (about 30")
They have been trying to bring in registration of all firearms here, but the Kiwis have resisted brilliantly and the legislation is in limbo.
Posted 21 February 2002 - 05:05 PM
Posted 22 February 2002 - 06:47 AM
On a related note there is a detachable magazine system now availabe as a retrofit kit for some pump guns and it does give 10 rounds but in a drum. There are also straight mag variants that hold 6 rounds. Apparently the ban on more than 5 rounds excludes pump guns. For anyone interested in this thing go to http://www.knoxx.com...sidewinder.html
Posted 22 February 2002 - 08:30 AM
Please understand that I am simply stirring the pot, however, I can see no reason, other than "we've always done it this way" to force this gun into open status. I agree that a box magazine might offer a significant advantage, just as a semi does over a pump gun.....
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