[Flexmoney]

I've mentioned this a time or two in the past, but I don't think I started a thread on it (do a search and prove me wrong )

We often talk about finding the "target" and keeping the gun on the target to make the shot.

But, I think we often define "target" in too vague of a fashion. The big brown chunk of cardboard is a target...an 8in round plate is a target, but, just shooting at a target can be too vague.

I prefer going about it by defining a SPOT on the target. This spot is where I want to go with my eyes, and the gun. I want to hit this SPOT. This is my goal. Think, "aim small, miss HIT small".

I'm going to start using the term "target SPOT".

How do you define "target"?

[Merlin Orr]

Not meant to drift, but...

By far and away the biggest single gain I ever made as an archer was when I started picking a hole or a blemish or another arrow in the 10 ring to concentrate on and to release the arrow at. The smaller the aiming point the better. When I finally figured this out I started knocking nocks off other arrows I was aiming at. Your comment "This is my goal. Think, "aim small, miss small" never occurred to me until now as related to my handgun shooting.

Why have I not applied this to my shooting long ago???? Duh......

[Bigbadaboom]

This is why (as mentioned in another thread) I draw a 3" circle in the upper portion of the lower A-Zone on all my practice targets with a black marker. This causes me to have to aim at the same "spot" on the target every time. I call this spot the "Hit Zone". When I'm at a match, due to practicing only aiming at that point all the time, my subconcious causes me to naturally aim at that point even when the circle is not there.

[XRe]

Flexmoney, on Feb 20 2006, 11:24 AM, said:

How do you define "target"?

When I first started, it was anything that wouldn't net me a no-shoot penalty or miss

Now, when I'm blocking out a stage, I pick out edges of pasters, etc, to snap my eyes to. If the targets are brand new, I'll use the perforated A, or something similar. On longer targets, where I can't see such things as easily, I'll pick a part of the A-zone, or something like that.

[Jake Di Vita]

I define target spot usually as the center of the available brown.

I normally tell my students that their target spot should be the same size as their bullet...exactly where they want it to go.

[TCK]

I started putting a black paster on my practice targets and use that as a focal point and "target".

[dv8]

Since I can't see fine details on the target while I focus on the FS, my target is where I expect the letter A to be. It is much easier of course when the entire target shows. When it is only a partial target I try to guesstimate the area between the letter A and the center of the available brown, or something like that.

I am not exactly sure how it is even possible to see the fine detailes on a target ( like a paster or a bullet hole ) while focusing on the front sight. I guess it might be easier for open shooters, but for the iron sights ??? Or may be it's just my eye sight that is not as good as it used to be.

Do you guys really SEE the details of a target, or you just imagine these details where you want to hit the target?

[Flexmoney]

You don't, really.

Jake shoots a red-dot sight, that allows a full target focus.


I shoot iron sights. My visual focus is always changing. My vision goes out to the target SPOT to locate and define where I want to hit. As the gun comes on target, my visual focus comes back to put the front sight in razor sharp focus.

[AlamoShooter]

I remember a movie with Mell Gibson .. the caracter has his 10 year old kid shooting at 'Red Coats' that had taken his other son captive. ... The kids montra was 'Aim Small, Miss Small'
I remember my Dad telling me that same thing,...but I am not so old as to have shot at Red Coats.

[benos]

Not only is it a good thing to specifically define each target in a COF, you should mentally rehearse the stage by visualizing each target as you defined it.

For iron sights: If I could see the shape of the A box (indentations) that's what I'd look for and SEE. I usually found it better to define a round steel plate by seeing the plate as a "round object." Not just "white" or "white paint with bullet marks on it." If I could see the A ring in the head box, I'd see and shoot for that. For paper targets that don't fit the previous categories, I'd figure out the best way for me to "see" the target. I might be shooting between the A/C lines on a no-shoot situation.

As with most things, doing something specifically yields better results than some sort of vague or half-hearted effort does. I don't know how many zillion targets I shot poorly on because I didn't not create a concrete plan as to where I was going to shoot them.
be

[rwmagnus]

I like the idea of black dots on the dry fire targets.

I find in competition I focus to a small spot on my draw target but as the stage progresses my target focus becomes less narrow. Maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere.?!

edit: You guys must have X-Ray vision to see "A" perfs on a target once the action starts.

This post has been edited by rwmagnus: 20 February 2006 - 08:24 PM

[kevin c]

I use a smaller A box on some of my dry fire targets. Instead of the standard 6" across (or proportionally smaller for reduced targets), I use 4" across, and proportionally shorter, though it seems less critical than the width, given the relative importance of transitioning across targets, rather than up and down.
I use these targets to run some of Steve Anderson's drills, in which he recommends getting an "acceptable sight picture in the A zone". I use a dot for transition drills otherwise.

[dv8]

Flexmoney, on Feb 20 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

You don't, really.

Jake shoots a red-dot sight, that allows a full target focus.


I shoot iron sights. My visual focus is always changing. My vision goes out to the target SPOT to locate and define where I want to hit. As the gun comes on target, my visual focus comes back to put the front sight in razor sharp focus.

I wish I could do that - since I have to use corrective glasses to see my FS, there is no way I can see the target details until I am done shooting and follow the RO assessing the hits. Though there probably is a disadvantage to this, it also has helped me to learn to call my shots, as well as to visualize the letter A when I aim.

[Jake Di Vita]

I dunno. I know for a fact that Jerry Barnhart scores his hits real time as he is shooting in both Open and Limited.

[JFD]

Does anyone see a problem with putting a black paster on the A zone?

My wife is picking up too many C hits from aiming too low, and I was thinking of using the black paster trick during practice. Just don't want to end up creating a problem during a match where there are no black pasters. I can't imagine it would be a problem, but want to ask the question.

[Flexmoney]

JFD,

If the issue for her is that she doesn't know where the center of the A-box is, then a visual cue is a great idea. Brain has talked in the past about outlining the A-box with tape. I have used masking tape to bisect the target...making a cross with the center in the middle of the A-zone.

If she is aiming low, it likely means she is looking at the target as a whole, then shooting center of mass. Which is exactly what I am suggesting a shooter avoid with the idea of defining a target SPOT.

Too often, we are vague in where we want the bullet to go. We don't define the goal precisely, then we wonder why we didn't hit precisely.

We get what we ask for, it seems.

Define a clear understanding of where the bullet needs to hit, and let the brain sort it out.

[shred]

Shoot at targets with the A-zones cut out for a while. It's enlightening and you shouldn't have to tape as much. Once you get used to that, only cut out a circle in the upper half of the A-zone. Typically I don't practice shooting the letter A, but a couple inches above it-- most of the slanted no-shoot and hard-cover situations leave the top half of the A-zone alone.

[Flexmoney]

dv8, on Feb 23 2006, 01:13 PM, said:

Flexmoney, on Feb 20 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

You don't, really.

Jake shoots a red-dot sight, that allows a full target focus.


I shoot iron sights. My visual focus is always changing. My vision goes out to the target SPOT to locate and define where I want to hit. As the gun comes on target, my visual focus comes back to put the front sight in razor sharp focus.

I wish I could do that - since I have to use corrective glasses to see my FS, there is no way I can see the target details until I am done shooting and follow the RO assessing the hits. Though there probably is a disadvantage to this, it also has helped me to learn to call my shots, as well as to visualize the letter A when I aim.

Vlad, I'm not sure where the amount of blindness enters the equation. I don't think you have to be able to see details on the target...but, you do need to define the target SPOT that you want to hit. For you, that may just be the knowledge of where the A is on the blurry brown piece of cardboard.

Define the goal. That is really what I am talking about when I throw out the idea of the target SPOT.

[JFD]

Thanks flex!

Her motivation is much different than mine, and sometimes I don't know what the hell she's doing, or why. She seems to be more of a fan of groin and intestine shots I'd seriously hate to have her shoot me

She did jump on the fast track as far as shooting goes though. From a non-shooter to a card carrying, match shooting USPSA member in a matter of months.

She HAS started to take an interest in the new G35 though, especially since it's been tricked out. Still wants to get her L-10 classification first, and seems to want to accomplish that with the Kimber.

Back when I still shot a little IDPA, I would add the IDPA -0 zone to my metric targets with a compass. Sort of naturally got me shooting a bit higher in the A zone.

[John Dunn]

At Area 1 last year on the briefcase stage I watched a ton of folks shoot center of available brown. The first few targets had one side overlapped with a NS leaving the A zone over available. Admittedly it was shooting on the move, strong hand, while carrying the briefcase, but folks were giving up a lot of points to shy away from the no-shoots.

I decided to aim one inch inside the A zone and was down zero on those targets, the rest of the targets I didn't have a predetermined spot to aim at, and was not down zero. Focus. Decide. Do.

[caspian38]

great post ! ....I have a tough time AIMING at a "TARGET SPOT". It took a while for it to sink in that if i aim at the A zone and miss I get a C if I aim at brown and miss I get a MIKE ! I don't know where Mel got that line ! but it is probably the most intelligent line I have ever heard in a movie!

if i can only remember after that dam buzzer!
C38

[dv8]

Flexmoney, on Feb 23 2006, 01:41 PM, said:

Vlad, I'm not sure where the amount of blindness enters the equation. I don't think you have to be able to see details on the target...but, you do need to define the target SPOT that you want to hit. For you, that may just be the knowledge of where the A is on the blurry brown piece of cardboard.

Define the goal. That is really what I am talking about when I throw out the idea of the target SPOT.

Flex, it is a great concept, and you put it really well - you always do. I only meant to say I wish I could see the target details as well as Jake does, or Jerry Barnhart - I always was better at making excuses rather than at shooting.

Some time ago, during an IPSC class for beginners an instructor asked me to demonstrate how you can hit a paster from 7 yards. I took a good long look at the target, and just couldn't see the damn paster on it. If I had my non-corrective glasses on, it'd take some time to shift the focus from the paster back to FS, but I could have hit the paster, at least I'd like to think so... The problem is that in non-corrective glasses it takes me a few seconds to bring the FS in some sort of focus - so I gave those glasses away to my girlfriend, and she looks really cool in those.

I guess my point is that as long as I can accurately visualize where I want to hit the target, I can get by without actually seeing the details. Which is pretty much what you already said - so I'll just shut up and go back to work.

[Flexmoney]

[edit to add...see Kevin's post #12 for a similar idea]


Last year I was training a guy that brought a bunch of peel and stick stickers. Usually they were 4x4in. They are great for training. (his were various warning labels that you might see on 55 gallon drums)

I made a little graphic that represents them a bit.
 TargetSpot.JPG (13.08K)
Number of downloads: 70

Even though these are smaller than the A-box...I still want to center up on them as well, not just "shoot the sticker".

I place them toward the top of the A-box like that so that I have a more consistent aiming area. Even with targets that are partials (hard cover and no-shoots), the upper A-box is often wide open.
 TargetSpotHard.JPG (20.12K)
Number of downloads: 47

[Flexmoney]

Bigbadaboom, on Feb 20 2006, 12:46 PM, said:

This is why (as mentioned in another thread) I draw a 3" circle in the upper portion of the lower A-Zone on all my practice targets with a black marker. This causes me to have to aim at the same "spot" on the target every time. I call this spot the "Hit Zone". When I'm at a match, due to practicing only aiming at that point all the time, my subconcious causes me to naturally aim at that point even when the circle is not there.

Two great tidbits really stand out in there for me.

- I usually have a big fat marker in my range bag. Fat, because it can allow me to color in the circle easily. Having the marker, I can trace a circle onto the target with the bottom of a pop can or water bottle from the trash (or whatever...hell, maybe I can just draw a circle )

- Building that sub-conscious aiming SPOT. That is why I like the upper part of the A-zone the most. If you make this habit, then your body/mind will steer you right to this SPOT. You won't feel right about breaking a shot outside of your SPOT.

[Pharaoh Bender]

I love the picture of the spot on a target. I've been using business cards to mark my spot. Kinda like in Dodgeball when Rip-Torn utters the great line "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!"

If you can hit a business card at 60 feet, standards will be a breeze.