[Chills1994]

Would it be possible to shoot S & W's .45 ACP model 625 in both SSR and ESR?

Use regular .45 ACP ammo at the 165 or higher PF in moonclips for ESR.

Use .45 Auto Rim ammo at the 125 or higher PF using Safariland Comp. Speedloaders for SSR.

It probably doesn't stand up to the spirit of IDPA. They'd probably want you to have two separate revolvers like a 686 in .357/.38 Special for SSR, AND a 625 or 610 moonclip gun for ESR.

Yeah, it's a little gamey I'd admit that....Kinda like using your CDP .45 with downloaded ammo and shooting it in ESP for it's 125 PF.

Toying around with the idea of getting a revolver for IDPA, and I'm a cheapskate so buying one 625 would be cheaper than buying a 686 and a 625.

Would shooting the Auto Rim in SSR warrant a procedural or a FTDR?

Danke,

Chills

[Gary Stevens]

Although it was only for one match, I tried this and had mixed results. The problem I had was the use of the speed loader only allows a small amount of the entire cartridge available to insert into the cylinder holes. Usually about the amount of the bullet sticking out of the case. What I had a problem with was pulling the speedloader away before all the rounds dropped into the cylinder. This flipped one or two out on the ground and caused a lot of problems. Also, and it might just be my gun, a couple of times I had an auto rim case left in the cylinder after ejection, more fun while under the clock

I think it would work with some diligent practice with the speedloader.

Good luck,

Gary

[Chills1994]

Thanks Gary, don't know how this ended up in the CoF discussions.

I wanted it in the regular IDPA discussion.

Chills

[revchuck]

Chills - You've got it backwards. Get a .357 Mag and shoot it in both SSR (with .38s) and ESR (with .357s). I classified in ESR with my 681, shooting 158 grain RNLs at 1100 fps.

[Chills1994]

Thanks Gary and revchuck for your replies.

I said I'm a cheapskate...I already have a 1911 in .45 ACP so going to a 625 would at least save me the expense of buying dies for .38/357.

And I'll be the first to admit that I am a complete newbie when it comes to revolvers, so let me get this straight.

There is no safe way to make the 165 PF using .38 Special brass?

Can I download .357 Magnum brass down to make the 125 PF on a consistent and clean burning enough basis?

If I switched between the 2 on my 550, is there some adjusting of the dies that needs to be done?

Just wandering if it wouldn't be easier to go with all .357 mag brass all the time?

Obviously, the way a 686 comes from the factory you can use Safariland speedloaders, but can you use moonclips w/o having to machine the cylinder?

And if you do machine the cylinder for moonclips, can you ever go back easily to shooting/loading with Safariland speedloaders?

The other nice thing is that it seems that there are a lot more used 686's out there than 610/640/646's (whatever that model # is) and 625's. And the prices are considerably lower for a used 686. The only used 625 I saw had a 5 inch barrel.

If I want to get into cowboy action shooting, I'll be all set up for reloading a Ruger Vaquero in .357 mag along with whatever lever gun in .357 I get. If I go with the .357 that is.

And what about the 8 shot revolver from the S and W performance center? A guy at a bowling pin match had one. He was using moonclips with it. IDPA says you can only load 6 rounds in a revolver. Does that leave you going click click then bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, reload?

I'm not all up on the rule book, but could you shoot an 8 shot revolver in the pistol classes, loaded with the full 8?

Or is the 8 shot gun more of an IPSC/ICORE thing?

Sorry, I'm just rambling here. The mall ninja discussion got me all stirred up. Arrrghhh......!!!

Chills

[Mooney]

Chills,

In IPSC you can load as many rounds in a revolver as you want, but only fire 6 shots prior to a reload- under IPSC rules, 1 procedural per shot fired in excess of 6 prior to a reload.
- under USPSA rules, you would be subject to be reassigned to the OPEN division- not something I would want with my 625...

The 625 would give you a bit of an advantage while reloading (BIG holes) but it depends upon all your other factors to make your decision. I have not tried IDPA yet, but it would seem that a nice .357 would be the way to go there, while the 625 is the gun of choice (or so it seems) for IPSC.

Happy shooting!

[Bones]

Chills,

Welcome to SSR.

What you suggested is well within the rules and can be done. Using 45 ARs in speedloaders takes some getting used to - it is the most difficult of all possible bullet/speedloader combinations. 45ARs are just too short.

By the time you buy the brass, speedloaders and holders, it might be easier to find a good, used Model 10 or 15 for ~ $200. You should also consider the cost of 45 AR vs 38 Special ammo before you make your decision. I can produce 130 PF 38 Special 158 gr CPRN ammo for $0.07/rd. I doubt you can produce 45 AR ammo for twice that cost.

The other option is to buy an L-frame and shoot both divisions. You could have it machined to accept moonclips. Not the hot ticket in my opinion.

You can safely make 165 PF using 38 Special brass. Elmer Kieth discovered that back in the 40's. I've been doing it for years. It is not the best solution for an ESR set-up however.

Yes, you can make 125 PF in 357 Mag brass, but why would you want to - especially if you're goal is to do it inexpensively?

If you're just investigating - any combo will do for a few matches.

Of all the divisions, it's hard to beat SSR for start-up and run costs.

If you want to shoot both ESR and SSR long term, the least expensive functional route is the 625 in 45 ACP and a 38/357 K or L-frame combination.

This is meant in the spirit of good, clean fun: It would be ironic - but refreshing - to see an ESR shooter concerned about "gaming it". Perhaps you're really an SSR shooter at heart.

Craig

This post has been edited by Bones: 24 January 2006 - 03:00 PM

[kdmoore]

Chills1994, on Jan 21 2006, 02:39 AM, said:

Obviously, the way a 686 comes from the factory you can use Safariland speedloaders, but can you use moonclips w/o having to machine the cylinder?

Not that I'm aware of. I think the solution is to use the 686 at 165 and with speedloaders.

I'm not expert, but others say you don't give up too much/any speed using safarilands comp III's.

Now you've gone and saved the price of moonclips

[COF]

Now, all of you SSR gamers, quit trying to fill Chills' head with such foolishness. His eyesight is getting bad and he needs the big .45 holes in the target.

Shooting a 686 at 165 PF is like shooting the 646 at 165 PF - it can be done but it ain't as much fun as shooting it at 135-140 PF. Shooting an N-frame gun @ 165 PF + is a lot more pleasant


Jerry

[hawk]

I haven't tried it in a match but I got some .45 AR brass and some HKS speedloaders and shoot my 625 with them just for fun. I load the 225 gr Meister TC bullets long to help get the bullets in the charge holes from the speedloaders.

Don't know if anyone would care at a sanctioned match but the 625 is 1 oz. heavier than the rules allow for SSR. (43 oz vs. 42 oz. in the rule book)

[Chills1994]

Hi there, Jerry (aka COF)!

I was wondering when you'd come along and post.

MMnn...didn't know about the weight limits.

Mnn...Guess I'll just have to buy both then.

Got that settled.

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. And thanks to the mods for moving it into the correct forum. My hamm-handedness with the mouse got me in trouble there.

Nah, the eyesight ain't going yet. But those .45 holes especially from a SWC are alot easier to see, especially when the RO/SO goes "IFFFFFF, you are finished....."

Guess the round nose type bullets are easier to feed into the cylinder, though.

[revchuck]

COF, on Feb 17 2006, 08:49 AM, said:

Now, all of you SSR gamers, quit trying to fill Chills' head with such foolishness. His eyesight is getting bad and he needs the big .45 holes in the target.

Shooting a 686 at 165 PF is like shooting the 646 at 165 PF - it can be done but it ain't as much fun as shooting it at 135-140 PF. Shooting an N-frame gun @ 165 PF + is a lot more pleasant


Jerry

Jerry - FWIW, the M27/28 4" is actually the same weight (42 oz.) as the M586/686 4". Recoil would actually be nicer from the L frame due to lower bore axis and heavier barrel.

While checking weights (from the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson) I noticed that as the bore size goes up, the weight goes down. I'm shooting the classifier today (weather permitting) for ESR with my new M22-4...which is the same weight as a 4" M19. Go figure.