[Chuck D]

Hi:

Is a G21 a viable alternative to the 1911 in CDP? Interested to read others opinions, especially those that use the G21.

This post has been edited by Chuck D: 26 November 2005 - 03:53 PM

[Joe D]

Nothing wrong with a G21 in CDP if you can handle the large grip.

[Sestock]

Nope!!

[CSEMARTIN]

I've used both as a CDP gun. I think the G21 reloads are faster. Retention reloads are nice because the magazine seats easier since it should only have 8 rounds in it.

If you have big enough hands to handle the 21, it is a viable option.

[jm951]

Love mine. I used to shoot a 1911, but with arthritis in the weak hand, working the controls could sometimes be problematic with the 1911. No problems with the G21. It's not for those with small hands though.

[solaritx]

I enjoy shooting my 1911, but because I shoot a Glock 34 in SSP and ESP, shooting my Glock 21 in CDP allows me to use the same weapon system that I am most "used to".

Hand size is a consideration, and because of this, I did a grip reduction on my 21 that allows it to be much more manageable. That and adding a Magwell finished the job.

One note: G21 can have problems with Winchester White Box .45 ammo. Without a stronger striker spring, normal strikes on this factory ammo will not be enough to send the bullet on it's way. This is a well known problem with IDPA shooters that use the G21 and Glock is also awaire of this problem.

Either increase the power of the firing pin or use other ammo. My suggestion is find ammo that the G21 likes or reloads that it likes. I now reload for it, and it loves CCI or Federal primers just fine.

Garry N

[Chuck D]

Grip size isn't a problem due to the fact that I have "paws" for hands. In fact, it's a main consideration for using a G21 instead of a SS-1911.

Curious... how do you guys/gals that use a G21 have them "set-up?"
What brand of sights, trigger jobs, etc.... do you use?

[solaritx]

Normal polish, etc glock trigger job.

Normal Glock rear with a Hi-Viz front either with green or red light-pipe

Garry N

[jm951]

Polish, etc, same as above. I shoot with Heine Slant Pro sights.

As for ammo, I usually shoot reloads, but when using WWB, I haven't experienced the problems with WWB that others have. That's not to say it isn't a problem, just that I haven't had it crop up yet. That could be due to the fact that I shoot my own stuff mainly and Wolf when that is running thin. I think I may have put only about 2 boxes of WWB through it.

[et45]

I have had light strikes with my G17 and WWB.

[Gregg K]

WWB has hard primers. If your trigger job included a lighter striker spring, it may need cleaning or replacing. The light springs don't seem to last as long. May have to use standard striker spring for WWB. Federal primers are much softer and easier to light with soft firing pin strikes. If your light hit is somewhat off center, your recoil spring may be too weak and the slide is being pulled slightly out of battery when you pull the trigger. Need the right balance of striker and recoil springs

[tightloop]

Are you sure you really want to ask that question with all the 1911 guys on this forum?

[Chuck D]

I've got a safe FULL of 1911's but this G21 has cast a spell over me...

It keeps calling out to me..." shoot me...shoot me..."

I'm powerless to resist.


Seriously, I really like this gun. Don't know why but I do. Thanks for all the info so far, keep it coming.

[jm951]

Mine is a 21C. My son has named it "Breath of Satan" from a low light shooting trip. No 1911 around can snort fire quite like the C models, so there is a cool factor here. I do have a non ported barrel to keep out of the Open class.

[Joe D]

I just traded my oldest G35 for a G21 yesterday. The G35 was still going strong at the 100,000 round mark, but the deal I got was too good to pass.
Mine is set up with a 12# recoil spring and steel guide rod. Did a quick 2# trigger job. Actually 1 lb. 15 oz. Put a HiViz over molded big dot front with a Novak rear.
Adjusted the mag release so it drops the mags with just a slight push rather than having to push it all the way in. Fixed the slide release so that it drops the slide when the mag is seated hard.
Not sure why I got it, just wanted another gun.
Hmmmm might make a good ESP gun with 130 pf loads. SSP without the guide rod??????

[Fireant]

Joe D

How do you adjust the mag release that way?

[AZ38super]

et45, on Nov 28 2005, 07:47 AM, said:

I have had light strikes with my G17 and WWB.

Just thought I would chime in...

I have a G17C with a higly modified 2# trigger with a lightened firing spring that will shoot WWB all day long without a hitch. Even if I load for it I still use Winchester primers. I have never seen a light strike yet.

There must be something else going on somewhere for people to see light strikes.

[Joe D]

Just trim the mag release back where it catches the mag. You actually have to take off a good bit of material.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

One note: G21 can have problems with Winchester White Box .45 ammo. Without a stronger striker spring, normal strikes on this factory ammo will not be enough to send the bullet on it's way.

I'm not sure what you mean by "stronger striker spring." Does anyone make a stronger than factory stock striker spring? Just asking - and possibly exposing my ignorance.

Quote

Hmmmm might make a good ESP gun with 130 pf loads.

The problem with that approach, as I see it, is that it would require a godawfully light recoil spring. And if you drop the recoil spring weight too much without also going to a much lighter striker spring, pulling the trigger can cause the slide to move rearward, leading to the gun firing out of battery.

Quote

How do you adjust the mag release that way?

Quote

Just trim the mag release back where it catches the mag. You actually have to take off a good bit of material.

What I like to do is remove the magazine release spring and bend it slightly, then reinstall. The amount of movement necessary to drop the mag is still the same but it requires less pressure to activate. This seems to be a good compromise between faster, easier mag changes and still being secure enough to actually carry the gun concealed.

[solaritx]

Yes, stronger striker springs are out there from the normal sources. Don't remember if I got mine from Glockmeister or Wolff, but believe both carry them.

Concerning Glock 21's and light primer strikes, here is a recent article:

LAPD Halts Use of Some Glock Guns


One model of the weapon, favored for its power and accuracy, has been
misfiring on test ranges. Manufacturer has attempted repairs.

By Andrew Blankstein, Times Staff Writer
LATimes.Com

Los Angeles police officers have been ordered to stop using Glock 21
semiautomatic handguns in the field after recent reports that the weapon
misfired dozens of times during training and firearms qualifying sessions,
department officials said Friday.

The .45-caliber gun, favored by law enforcement for its power and accuracy,
has been purchased by 1,600 of the roughly 9,100 Los Angeles Police
Department officers for both on-the-job and personal use. The weapon also
is popular with some of LAPD's elite units, including Metro K-9 and the
Special Investigation Section.

LAPD officials said they took the unusual step of ordering the gun out of
service and encouraging officers to switch to other weapons ? including
other Glock models ? after they became aware of problems with "light
strikes," which occur when a loaded cartridge is hit by the firing pin but
is not hit hard enough to discharge a bullet.

Problems with the Glock 21s have yet to show up in the field. But
department officials expressed concern that the gun could malfunction at a
crime scene, leaving a responding officer unprotected.

"We became aware of the problem with misfires and directed our officers not
to carry the weapon until there is a resolution of the issue," said LAPD
Asst. Chief Jim McDonnell. "While we have a high level of confidence in
Glock firearms overall, we took this step out of an abundance of caution,
for the safety of our officers and the public."

Department officials said the problem first came to their attention in the
first quarter of the year, when they received a smattering of reports of
light strikes.

In response to the LAPD, Glock provided a fix ? a new trigger bar ? but the
problems persisted. By October, the department had received more than 40
reports of light strikes from its three firing ranges.

The Austrian arms company, which has U.S. offices in Smyrna, Ga., then
agreed to replace trigger bars in all Glock 21s used by LAPD personnel.

But although the replacement stopped misfires in some weapons, the problem
appeared for the first time in others. In all, the department received more
than 20 complaints in several days, and department armory personnel noticed
unusual wear in the weapons.

A Glock representative could not be reached Friday.

Founded in 1963 by Austrian engineer Gaston Glock, the company specializes
in combining polymer plastic and steel components in military products,
including machine-gun belts, practice hand grenades, plastic clips, field
knives and entrenching tools.

The company gained a strong following among sport shooters and police
departments, applying its technology to guns that combine power and lighter
weight for ease of control.

The Glock website, which notes sales of 2.5 million guns, says its weapons
are used by 7,500 law enforcement agencies ? about 65% of the market ?
including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Drug Enforcement Agency
and the New York Police Department.

The LAPD, which until recently had allowed use of only Smith & Wesson and
Beretta pistols, added the Glock as an optional handgun under Chief William
J. Bratton.

There has been a movement within the LAPD to replace the Beretta
9-millimeter handgun with the .40-caliber Glock.

But the Glock 21 is a different matter.

The Police Bureau of Portland, Ore., ordered an immediate recall of the
pistol last year after three of the weapons exploded in the hands of officers.

The gun was carried by 230 officers, a quarter of the force. The bureau,
which has hired a consultant to study the issue, still prohibits the
weapon, a spokesman said Friday.

Alan J. Skobin, Los Angeles Police Commission vice president, said the
company had been fully cooperative and responsive in fixing the problem
with the Glock 21, although he said there should be no compromise on
officer safety.

"Whatever that fix is, you can be absolutely certain there is going to be
extensive and exhaustive testing at the range to be as certain as humanly
possible before we put the Glock 21 back in the field," he said.

Skobin noted that the Police Commission ruled this week on two
officer-involved shootings involving a Glock 21, and "thankfully, there
were no problems."

In training, LAPD officers primarily use lower-quality ammunition than is
used in the field.

Dean Speir, who operates the website http://www.thegunzone.com , said
problems with firearms can sometimes be traced to this practice, which is
often exacerbated by poor maintenance.

But Speir said that because Glock had attempted to address problems by
replacing trigger bars in October, it was more likely that a subcontractor
"may have improperly plated the trigger bars so that flakes of
nickel-chrome might be chipping off and causing a fouling problem."

Nonetheless, he said Glock is sure to take extra steps to resolve the
issue. "When an agency the size of LAPD complains of problems with their
pistols, this tends to get Glock's attention," Speir said.

Times staff writer Richard Winton contributed to this article.

[Joe D]

Duane, I run the gun with a 12# spring. The reduced power striker does not pull the gun out of battery. I was not bothered by the amount of pressure required to release the mag just the length of travel of the mag release.
I have no intention of carrying this gun. My "carry gun" is a Glock 23.

[Steve Moneypenny]

If you use good ammo you won't have light primer strikes nearly as often!!

A glock 21 is a very viable option for CDP, but i don't like it as well i love a 1911 single stack for CDP shooting. just me though.

To set up a 21 i would go with heinie or novak sights, SS guide rod to add some up front weight. a mag well milled to fit the IDPA box. Maybe a brass one depending on weight. Extended mag release. and slide stop. of course an action job.!

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

and slide stop.

I had to pull the extended slide stop off my G34 and replace it with the low-profile part off a Glock 17. The way I grip the gun, the heel of my hand is high enough it'll press up on the extended slide stop, causing it to lock the action open with rounds still in the magazine.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

Duane, I run the gun with a 12# spring. The reduced power striker does not pull the gun out of battery.

Yeah, that's the smart way to do it. If you want to run a reduced power recoil spring, the only way is to also go to a reduced power striker spring. The scary thing, I think a lot of people don't know that. My concern here, it sounded like what we were discussing could be be construed as recommending a lighter than stock recoil spring and a heavier than stock striker spring which may well be an unsafe combination.

[another okie]

I have a used 21 I bought in part to use in CDP. I love how soft it shoots and it points very naturally for me. I like the grip size better than my 1911's grip size. I put the 3 1/2 pound trigger and a fiber optic front sight on it. I guess I do need to think about an IDPA legal holster, since the only holster I have for it is a Blade-tech.

I've had several light primer strikes on reloads with Winchester large pistol primers. I've never had a problem with federal primers or with federal or blazer factory ammo, so for now I'm just swtiching to federal primers.

I have thought of going to a stronger striker spring, but if I do I will step up a couple of pounds on the recoil spring, too. There's lots of speculation about why this occurs. Here are four theories:

My first thought was that the small strike the Glock striker makes compared to the big round impression of a 1911 was the problem. Others have suggested a more powerful recoil spring to make sure it's in battery. Apparently Glock is telling LAPD that the problem has something to do with the trigger bar. The 21 uses the same striker springs as the 17; maybe it needs a little more ooomph.

I've never heard of anyone having this problem with a Glock 20, 29, or 30.

p.s. Some have blamed dirty striker channels, but mine is kept quite clean and I don't see why this would affect the 21 only.

This post has been edited by another okie: 04 January 2006 - 05:43 PM