48 replies to this topic

[PistolPete]

I'm doing a little research to see how people pull their triggers and why they do so. I've been reading up on this and have found completely opposite results. Some shooters such as Rob Leatham and Todd Jarrett use a trigger sweep or slap while others like Matt Burkett recommend the trigger reset technique.

I've been using the trigger reset technique for the past few years and have had good results with it. However, because of this technique I cannot shoot the Para LDA's because there are 2 clicks before the trigger completely resets. When the first reset is felt I try getting off my 2nd shot and the gun doesn't do anything. Not a big deal because I don't shoot an LDA. I like this way of shooting because I feel that I'm always conscience of the trigger at all times.

However, after reading up on the trigger sweep/slap technique it makes a ton of sense. What I read is that if you place your index finger on a desk and tap it repeatidly several times it is much faster bringing your finger fully up and down as trying to stop the upwards motion half way and bringing it back down. This would translate into being faster with the trigger.

I think both ways make perfect sense and it is a matter of what works better for yourself. I will practice the trigger sweep over the next few months to see if it would be better for my shooting.

I'm curious to see how you use your trigger and why you do so.

Pete

[Loves2Shoot]

I think you be disapointed if you think slapping will give you faster splits. There is a time and place for both, but they are both just as fast if done correctly.

[jkrispies]

I will claim to be absolutely NO expert, but for me so far:

Reset... but I'm also shooting Glocks exclusively. Now, if I were using a Sig with a pristine trigger job (or anything else), things might be different. I don't have the experience with other platforms to say.

I will say that I'd pick one technique and stick with it, regardless of the platform. In fact, if you're switching platforms, the slap technique may be the best and only choice, as it will probably get you as close to a consistant pull as you can get with different styles of trigger. (ie, Whether you shoot a Glock or an LDA, you're still throwing your finger all the way forward and the all the way back with EVERY SINGLE SHOT.) As I see it, the problem with the reset method on multiple platforms is that you'll need to train yourself to have different muscle memories in what is essentially a high-speed reflexive situation, which may not work.

After all, it would really stink to be in a match and OOPS! you flub a shot because your index finger forgot which gun it was manipulating.

[Religious Shooter]

I use the trigger reset technique (e.g. stay on the trigger the whole time). I feel that I am more accurate with this technique. And in a one firearm only type shooting I think it is simpler since you can use the one technique with pretty much every target.

But I've mulled going to the slap technique since my main focus is 3 gun. I have a 2-stage Jewell on my AR (that has a reset like a Beretta) and shoot a SVI and a Remington 1100. I figure the slap technique can help since the three guns have varying reset points and types. TGO's explanation on how the technique helps him in transitioning between different firearms is compelling.

However, after reading up on the trigger sweep/slap technique it makes a ton of sense. What I read is that if you place your index finger on a desk and tap it repeatidly several times it is much faster bringing your finger fully up and down as trying to stop the upwards motion half way and bringing it back down. This would translate into being faster with the trigger.

Can you provide a link for the above info?

I don't think the slap is necessarily much faster. With the slap technique you have to slow down on the downstroke to execute the difficult shots. You may even blow through the reset point and not make an accurate enough shot. If all targets are hoser targets I would agree that it is faster. But if you throw in the smaller target areas and more difficult shots the slap technique can be considereably slower and at worst can't be used to reliably make the shot.

I am/was mainly looking to see if the technique can make the use of the 3 guns more consistent. I get trigger freeze with my AR and my SVI now and then. Yes it could be because I may be "trying." But it could also be that the triggers are different enough that the trigger freeze is actually the product of the different reset points and types between the different guns.

[PistolPete]

Can you provide a link for the above info?

It all started from reading an article in the December 2005 issue of Shooting Times magazine. It starts on Page 14 and is the topic is: Firing Line by Scott E. Mayer A "Sweeping" trigger Technique.

If needed I can type the article in the topic just let me know.

Pete

[davidball]

There is a time and place for both . . .

I'm no expert either, but I currently adhere the above philosophy. Seems like "slapping" the trigger is quickest for real close targets and "resetting" is best for long or tight shots. I understand and appreciate the philosophy of sticking to one or the other for consistency, muscel memory, etc., but I think this is a situation where multiple tools might provide the best results.

[PistolPete]

My opinion on this topic is as follows:

Why not try the other way of shooting and see if it is better for me. What do I have to lose? It might take me out of my game for a short while but in the long run make me a better shooter. If I hear something such as this and don't try it for myself then how will I ever know if it is better or not? I'm not one to believe in everything I read but am a believer in trying new ways to improve even if it doesn't work.

Pete

[davidball]

Why not try the other way of shooting and see if it is better for me. What do I have to lose? It might take me out of my game for a short while but in the long run make me a better shooter. If I hear something such as this and don't try it for myself then how will I ever know if it is better or not?

I think most GMs would tell you the same thing. Saul Kirsch emphasizes this in his latest book and also points out that if something new doesn't work, it doesn't take much to get back to "the old way."

[SiG Lady]

Reset... very carefully.

[Airic]

What works for one person, doesnt always work for another. Just experiment...if your willing to try it to see if it makes you a better shooter, the experience and change will probably make you a better shooter anyway.

And with all the extra practice you would be doing to work in the change, you might see things you havent seen before.

[Mistral404]

On targets that require some accuracy, I find the trigger reset to be amazingly satisfying.
On the close stuff, I do release my finger as fast as possible. But if it is a long shot, the trigger reset provides the best results.
I found this to be especially true on some of the fast swingers at A2.

I think I am going to devote this winter's practices to just using the trigger reset method. I want to get my timing down on doing the reset right before seeing the front set settle. So when it has settled I can press the trigger. I am losing time on having the sight settle then releasing to the reset, then pressing.

[Ron Ankeny]

On an episode of The Shooting Gallery Todd Jarret said something to the effect that to be really fast a person needs to learn to slap the trigger. I wonder where he got an idea like that?

Personally, when I am shooting monster splits in the low teens I manipulate the trigger same speed in, same speed out and that results in slapping. I don't have the touch required to actually "sense" the return just to the point of reset.

[glock17w]

I use the trigger slap. I don't have the sense to feel the trigger reset. I guess people are equally as fast with trigger slapping or trigger reseting so just use what is best for you.

[kevin c]

I also am definitely not speaking from the perspective of a Master Class shooter, but can at least relate my own experience and observations.

I used to reset, but now I slap. I thought, and it may be, that resetting is faster (marginally) than slapping, but I'm realizing that splits aren't as important as transitions and setup between shooting positions. I also found that I tend to push followup shots to the left on resetting. This went away once I took my trigger finger off the trigger face and came back w/ each shot. And the rare case of trigger freeze I would get seems to have gone away. So I am more consistent and more accurate coming off the trigger than staying on, and not significantly different timewise.

I also may be thinking of a "slap" in a different sense than some. Unless I'm on a really close in target, I don't pull through the trigger on the "slap". The shot should break when the sight picture is there, not when the finger is there. I'll bring my finger back to the trigger, but not press through until the shot is ready. I guess, for me, the slap is a trigger prep technique, not trigger press technique.

fwiw,



kevin c

[Zerwas]

The last poster was starting to get somewhere. It has been said many times that split times don't make a champion. What makes a champion are the target transitions and the other little things that make efficient use of your time (reloads, head position-eyes up at the target, etc..)
I noticed a huge difference in my ability to motor along toward the end of the season because I was aware of doing the little things better. My split times actually slowed down over the course of the summer, yet my overall times sped up...go figure.

[short_round]

... but not press through until the shot is ready.

I do this too but I ride the trigger. It helps me to have a little bit of pre-travel.

My split times actually slowed down over the course of the summer, yet my overall times sped up...go figure.

I've had this happen to me before. I bet if you checked your transition times they went down by at least half.

[Pierruiggi]

http://www.brianenos...showtopic=27242

[Steve Moneypenny]

For me I do not think of it as slapping the trigger I only judge what level of feed back I need from my trigger to get that A.

I am pretty liberal with 5 yard open targets, but on a 25 yard target I can still call my hits.

Trigger control in my eyes (or fingertips as the case may be) is just like the focus shifts that benos describes so very well in his book.

[AlamoShooter]

I shoot open Revolver and Open Auto in Steel Challenge and Sportsman's Team Challenge and shoot 22 rimfire on 2" target at 45 and 50 yards. not at a slow pace, if you wont to win or do well.
Each target and each game and the game inside the game has a diferent setup. If I am jsut testing amoe or a barrel, or sighting in I use a diferent triger setup and pull, but they are alos close to the same.
If you don't learn them all or have a goal to learn, you will never find what your true protential can be. A fast double action Revover pull on a long target is a good trick to have when you need or wont it.
coming off the triger to reset for a two shot drill is a new trick for me, that I have just tryed this past two years. = I don't think I like it, and I don't think it has helped my shooting. I think it has cost me a year of missed calls on shots. And thanks for asking the question becuse I am goning to stop doing it.
I would rather have two slow hits that i know ware they hit in .23 splits over a .19 split that I cant be shurr of the hit, But at 49 in old compared to most.

[jay.hosford]

I don't know for sure but I think TJ, and RL are using the "slack out" method. It looks like slapping the trigger because they are comming completely off of it. What they are actually doing is comming off the trigger in recoil and prepping the trigger right up to where it's ready to break. Once the sights come back down your ready for the next shot. You will naturally shoot faster because as the post comes back down into the notch the trigger is allread ready to go. It also helps with accuracy because your not having to pull the trigger much once you have a sight picture.

[G-ManBart]

I come all the way off the trigger...nothing touching, then prep as necessary (depends on the shot) and PRESS, not pull the trigger.

We have a device at work that puts a pressure sensor on the trigger of Glocks, 1911s, and a couple of others. In years of testing, they have never, ever seen a single shooter who was able to go from the shot breaking to the reset point (or even reasonably close) unless they slowed down to literally bullseye speed. This included many of the big name shooters in our sport. I know TGO and TJ were shown the system and gave it a try.

A very, very few people could go from the shot breaking to maybe halfway between the trigger reset point and where the trigger was fully extended. None were very close to the reset point and none were consistent about it.

Now, everybody that says "I use the reset point and can go right to it" calls BS when they're told this and say "yeah, but they're not me" so they try it on the machine and every single one of them learns that they're not really doing what they think and feel they're doing.

The reset theory for what we're doing (shooting at speed) actually messes up more shooter's trigger press...it's a useless time waster. If it's not possible to go exactly to the reset point outside of extremely slow, deliberate shooting (and reams of data prove it) then it just causes people to waste time with what they think is a deliberate, controlled release when they could have already completely released the trigger, prepped it as necessary for the shot required and be starting the next press.

It's sorta like "getting to the shooting" at the start of a stage, it's just "getting to the pressing"

[G-ManBart]

I also may be thinking of a "slap" in a different sense than some. Unless I'm on a really close in target, I don't pull through the trigger on the "slap". The shot should break when the sight picture is there, not when the finger is there. I'll bring my finger back to the trigger, but not press through until the shot is ready. I guess, for me, the slap is a trigger prep technique, not trigger press technique.

Absolutely....it's not really a "slap" at all. It's simply getting the finger back on the trigger quickly, taking up the slack (prepping) and then the speed of the actual trigger press depends on the shot required. You can have the same speed of reset (going from trigger all the way back, releasing and taking the slack out) on all shots, with varying speeds of trigger press and have it work perfectly. R,

[P.E. Kelley]

It is my understanding (and paraphrasing Mr. Leatham) you can slap, jerk ,yank all you want before, during and after
the shot breaks, just have the bullet exit hole pointed a the intended target at the time it goes BANG!

I am for the most part a (stock) Glock shooter and I *try* to "pin and reset" for tough shots
but if it is within my "X" distance I step on the bang switch.

Is one single trigger method used by anybody of note????
Is one single sight focus used by anybody of note???

Patrick(not of note)Kelley

[el pres]

Who cares, the "shot" or the sights dictate how the trigger should be manipulated. The
only time I think about it is when you have a 35-50yd partial. Then I'll click to the reset
and squeez it off like a rifle..but I'm just figuring this out !!

[kevinj308]

It's sorta like "getting to the shooting" at the start of a stage, it's just "getting to the pressing"
[/quote]



That's good. At least for me that says alot.

Kevin