[triggercontrol]

A scorpion asks a frog for help crossing a river. Intimidated by the scorpion's prominent stinger, the frog demurs.

``Don't be scared,'' the scorpion says. ``If something happens to you, I'll drown.'' Moved by this logic, the frog puts the scorpion on his back and wades into the river. Half way across, the scorpion stings the frog.

The dying frog croaks, ``How could you -- you know that you'll drown?''

``It's my nature,'' gasps the sinking scorpion.

[Rikarin]

Oh my god I know this story from childfood.... but never knew what exactly that means... that, we can not pretend as someone else? That, don't believe what scoripon says?

[AikiDale]

The scorpion must do what it must do because it is in its nature. "A leopard can not change it's spots," is another common saying which also indicates how hard it is to change, if change is even possible.

[triggercontrol]

and if change is possible, how much of it do we notice if and when it happens. Is there true self awareness?

[kamakiri]

The argument could go back and forth for eons about what exactly true self awareness means. But in practical, IPSC-applicable terms, I think self awareness certainly can be developed and increased. Two important factors come to mind: focus and familiarity. If you want to be more aware of something in your life-- your reload technique, for example-- then you need to focus on and familiarize yourself with it. If you do something inattentively, even many times, you can be very little aware of it. (Anyone remember riding in a car with your parents repeatedly to some known place-- and then, when you got your driver's license and went to drive there yourself, not being sure of the route?) If you actively pay attention while you do something, however, you almost inevitably deepen your awareness of it; and the more often you do so, the greater your familiarity with it becomes, and therefore your ability to easily absorb what is going on and pick out new/different details.

In a certain sense it seems to me that the entire project of developing one's skills in shooting (or anything else in life), in the face of difficulties that one may face, is an active denial of the basic idea of the scorpion/frog parable. Is every scorpion really stuck being a scorpion, or can one become a crocodile with the right kind of effort? Or to handle the metaphor a little differently, must every scorpion be stuck with its bad habits, or can it adjust its behavior to achieve the results it desires?

[benos]

kamakiri, on Dec 7 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

... Is every scorpion really stuck being a scorpion, or can one become a crocodile with the right kind of effort? Or to handle the metaphor a little differently, must every scorpion be stuck with its bad habits, or can it adjust its behavior to achieve the results it desires?

Great post and question!

I feel, as human beings, we possess an infinite potential to change behavioral patterns. Whether we are aware of it or not.

One of my favorite "summing up of the human experience" quotes, from Chinul:
All beings form habits of action influenced by subjective feelings and affections based on ignorance of the essence of awareness.

[triggercontrol]

benos, on Dec 8 2005, 12:14 PM, said:

kamakiri, on Dec 7 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

... Is every scorpion really stuck being a scorpion, or can one become a crocodile with the right kind of effort? Or to handle the metaphor a little differently, must every scorpion be stuck with its bad habits, or can it adjust its behavior to achieve the results it desires?

Great post and question!

I feel, as human beings, we possess an infinite potential to change behavioral patterns. Whether we are aware of it or not.

One of my favorite "summing up of the human experience" quotes, from Chinul:
All beings form habits of action influenced by subjective feelings and affections based on ignorance of the essence of awareness.

That was certainly the case with me Brian, I had to reverse alot of bad habits that we firmly engrained and one could have attested to the fact that they were embedded in my DNA so firmly that one needed to resequence me to get it undone, but as you say, it is simply BEHAIVIOR that was changed and mental barriers brought down with perfect practice or the striving for excellence thereof. There is still the bit of scorpion in me, but when he surfaces, I recognize him and am aware of his presence.

[Sam]

Perhaps the focus of the parable isn't the scorpion at all?

(Instead of accepting what is, the frog was seduced by his own expectations)

Without the bad judgement of the frog, there would have been no need for a parable.

This post has been edited by Sam: 09 December 2005 - 06:12 AM

[Carl]

Sam, on Dec 9 2005, 07:55 AM, said:

Perhaps the focus of the parable isn't the scorpion at all?

That is precisely how I take it. We cannot have expectations that others will change, just because we do things for them. It certainly has relevence today more than ever.

There is no amount of "kindness", "understanding", "tolerance" or even "compassion", that will change certain people, who want to destroy our way of life, JUST because we do not follow some twisted way they percieve the world.


Sorry for the drift from how it relates to shooting!

Carl

This post has been edited by Carl: 09 December 2005 - 06:10 AM

[Sam]

Wow, Carl! That was cool. I was editing my post to include the last two lines as you were making your post.

That was my point exactly. It didn't matter if the scorpion did change in to a croc, or even an Al Queida terrorist, the result was always going to be the same for the frog.

Doom on Froggie!


Accept that the scorpion, croc, T, isn't like you and expecting him to change is is a refusal to accept reality. That's the lesson to me. And so we are left with the modern axiom:" Reality, bites!"


Probably not a total drift from shooting. "Accept what is."

[Flexmoney]

Maku mozo

[John Heiter]

Lesson learned - No good deed goes unpunished.

The frog should have been true to his own nature and just eaten that damn scorpion when he first showed up.

[Carl]

Sam, on Dec 9 2005, 08:23 AM, said:

Wow, Carl! That was cool. I was editing my post to include the last two lines as you were making your post.

That was my point exactly. It didn't matter if the scorpion did change in to a croc, or even an Al Queida terrorist, the result was always going to be the same for the frog.

Gotta Love like minded thinking or is that RIGHT minded thinking?!!

[Rikarin]

That's how I always thought what's that story is saying and never liked it, especially hearing growing up in Japan, where fatalism prevails. Like do not trust scoripion whatever he says.

I don't know where this story originated from though.

John Heiter, on Dec 9 2005, 08:00 AM, said:

Lesson learned - No good deed goes unpunished.

The frog should have been true to his own nature and just eaten that damn scorpion when he first showed up.

[Sam]

Quote

Maku mozo

Hehe, Flex!


Sometimes I wonder if I've ever had a truly original thought in my entire life. Something that no one has ever considered before me. I seriously doubt it.

But, I saw this bald eagle soar past me nice and low a couple of days ago. It was an outstanding moment to witness. That eagle, that sky, that moment. Never before and never again.

[Flexmoney]

Sam, on Dec 9 2005, 04:05 PM, said:

Sometimes I wonder if I've ever had a truly original thought in my entire life. Something that no one has ever considered before me. I seriously doubt it.

Funny...I was thinking the exact same thing.

Quote

But, I saw this bald eagle soar past me nice and low a couple of days ago. It was an outstanding moment to witness. That eagle, that sky, that moment. Never before and never again.

As my Dad used to tell me, "Old Indian say...keep mouth shut while watching eagle soar overhead."

Seriously, that eagle thing sounds pretty cool. I wonder what the big bird was thinking...

[boo radley]

Rikarin, on Dec 9 2005, 02:32 PM, said:

That's how I always thought what's that story is saying and never liked it, especially hearing growing up in Japan, where fatalism prevails. Like do not trust scoripion whatever he says.

I don't know where this story originated from though.

I've always thought it was a strange parable, myself. I believe it's one of Aesop's Fables, but I could be wrong.

What bothers me it's that it's not necessarily a scorpion's nature to sting indescriminately, especially if he's gone to the trouble and thought process of achieving a goal and enlisting a frog.

Why not sting when just across safely?

[Liota]

Boo,

You beat me to the punch.
Tks,

L

[Sam]

Flex, I felt that the eagle and I briefly shared the greeting "Namaste".

[Flexmoney]

That...or he was thinking about unleasing the badger and hauling you off for dinner.


(Yeah...I had to look that word up. Odd...the website that I found it: http://www.flex.com/...s/namaste1.html )

[Sam]

Leave it to me to drag a Hindu greeting into a Zen forum.

[triggercontrol]

I think sometimes we make it more complicated than it is. In the end, as Brian Enos says in his book, when you are shooting, there is only the shooting., of course we are often bombarded with so much external stimuli, that its hard to concentrate. Perhaps the frog and the scorpion both forgot their "nature".

[carinab]

I hope I'm not true to my nature. To clarify, it is sometimes my nature to have a rather dark view of things - that all things ultimately decline and decay. Life can be overwhelming, a series of unfortunate events punctuated by wrong choices and bad luck - Charlie Brown wishing to really punt that football downfield but having the ball pulled away at the last second. It's true with most things in natural world. Even solid rocks are cut and carved by slow but consistent drops of water. The only thing that refuses to give in is the human spirit. A frog and a scorpion have no self awareness and hence have to be what they are....People do not. Some people succumb thinking their pain won't end. But the tough ones awaken and slowly fight there way upwards.

[cr10x]

"A frog and a scorpion have no self awareness and hence have to be what they are....People do not. Some people succumb thinking their pain won't end. But the tough ones awaken and slowly fight there way upwards"

This is similar to my perspective.

I first took this parable on its surface for many years, then my perspective changed. Now I believe the initial author of this had the intention of using the animals in this parable to make people more aware of the choices humans have.

If we (humans) do not actively pursue changing our base nature and feelings, we are doomed to respond as animals and rely on the excuse the Scorpion used. "It's not my fault, it's my nature." I believe the author was telling us that we have the power to change our nature by showing the scorpion couldn't.

Cecil