[Diezel]

Hi

Im about to start loading for my 45.
I bought a can of VV N310 and Hornady 200gn XTP bullets. Primers are Federal Large Pistol.

In the VV loading manual I dont find any load for this kind of bullet, only for a LSWC.
I would like to know the min & max charge and the OAL. Any tips?

[ricciardelli]

N-310 not a good choice...

N-320 From 4.8 grains to 6.0 grains
CCI-300 Primer
N-330 From 5.5 grains to 8.0 grains
CCI-300 Primer
N-340 From 5.8 grains to 8.3 grains
CCI-300 Primer
N-350 From 6.8 grains to 7.8 grains
CCI-300 Primer

[Diezel]

Hi

I know it´s not listed but I have been recomended N310 from several people
that uses it. Just hoping to get some real data.

[XRe]

Nothing beats a search Search on this string "200 AND 310" in the .45 Caliber reloading forum... start reading.

In general, N310 is very similar to Clays, in terms of charge weights. As long as you reload *intelligently*, and start lower by a good 10% or so from the loads you'll see here, you should be able to arrive at a workable load fairly easily. Pay attention to OAL listed for these loads - if you load shorter, back off more. A Chrono would be extremely helpful!

Appropriate disclaimers apply! Be careful!

[Carlos]

ricciardelli -

V V nows lists published, approved, SAAMI and CIP - safe loads for N 310 used in .45 ACP. Moreover, N310 and 200 grn bullets are selected over all others for the custom built, Wilson Combat 1911s test-fire targets. It is also becomming the top choice among Bullseye .45 shooters. Why do you believe it is a bad choice? Was there some confusion about .40 vs .45 ACP? Also, I have to disagree w/ super-hard CCI primers - they are unrealiable with any lightened mainspring/light trigger job and I believe that most serious USPSA shooters run a lighter-than factory mainspring or lightened trigger in their 1911s. Many prefer Winchester or Federal primers.

Regards,

D.C. Johnson

This post has been edited by Carlos: 18 November 2005 - 10:32 AM

[Diezel]

Hi

I just fired my first 5 rounds, all went Boom! :-)

I used 3.8gn VV N310, the OAL was 1.220"
The primers where quite flat. I did not have a chrono so I dont know the V0.
The recoil feelt much less than with the factory S&B ammo with 230gn bullet.
Now im woundering if i should back the bullet out a little and maby try 3.9 or 4.0 gn powder.
Or stay on 3.8?
What do you think.

[XRe]

I would load out to 1.250" unless you have a good reason not to... Flat primers in a .45 is not a good thing !!! I wouldn't increase powder charge at all - in fact, I'd probably back off to 3.4-3.5, and see where you're at. Without a chrono, you have no idea what you're doing (the "hand" chrono - ie, how it feels to shoot the loads - is no indicator of the performance of the load).

Here's the thing about fast powders - they *do* shoot soft. They also build to max pressure peak very quickly, which is why you may not make major with a powder that's too fast for the cartridge without encountering potentially dangerous situations. Luckily, .45 is low pressure and fairly forgiving, and faster powders seem to work really well. Because .45 is so low pressure, though, seeing pressure signs in the .45 primer is abnormal. I would be concerned about that.

Can you post a picture of what your primers look like? Have you got slightly flattened corners of the primer, or does it look like someone melted the primer and poured it into the primer pocket?

[Diezel]

Hi

I took a quick picture.



I should mention that i did not expand the case neck very much so I gues the bullets was stuck pretty hard in the case.
I have loaded some more and arranged to do a chrono test tomorrow.
This load is with 4.0gn N310 (Had´nt read your message before I loded...)
The OAL is now 1.240"

This post has been edited by Diezel: 18 November 2005 - 01:17 PM

[XRe]

Ok, so not too horrible. I certainly wouldn't go up on that charge, yet - wait until after you chrono and see where you're at. Those are really only slightly flattened. You might already be major... and then some

[Diezel]

Hi XRe

I´ll make some with 3.8gn again and shoot thru the crono first.

Im not into IPSC, yet. Can some one explain how i calculate the PF ?

[XRe]

(Bullet weight (grains) * Muzzle Velocity (feet per second)) / 1000 = Power Factor

Major in Standard division is 170. In order to figure minimum velocity for a 200 gr bullet, you can work it backwards: (170 * 1000) / 200 = velocity - 850 fps. In metric, 259.08 meters/sec. Your bullet weight is 12.959782g, BTW

[Carlos]

I think that the very soft Federal primers will appear flat even when pressures are very low. I am certain that if you switch to Winchester or Remington primers, they will appear "normal" after firing. I agree about making the length 1.250" or so.

As for IPSC in Sweden, you probably know about Johnnie's site: www.strictlyipsc.com

[AustinMike]

The primers in your picture don't look bad at all. Federals are pretty soft. Every barrel is different, but I doubt you're pushing a jacketed bullet to Major PF with 3.8gr. of N310. A chrono is the only way to know for sure. It took 4.5 gr. of N310 to push a 200gr. Precision moly coated bullet fast enough out of my Kimber. I worked up to that from where you're at in .1 increments. No excessive pressure signs and I had to seat to 1.235" to get them RNFP's to feed reliably. Interestly, the hotter the load, the more consistent readings I got on the chrono. My best readings were with 230gr. bullets though.

Be careful, take it slow. It takes time to figure out what works best in your gun.

[Diezel]

Hi

I just got back from the range where I did some chrono testing.

I fired 5 rounds with 3.8gn N310, OAL 1.240. V5=671.85 fps

Then 5 rounds with 4.0gn N310, OAL 1.240. V5=669.02 fps

Then 5 more rounds with 4.0gn N310 OAL 1.240. V5=694.02 fps

Im not sure what the V0 would be.


I dont know why the speed was so different between the to last series.
The first series with 3.8gn and the last with 4.0gn was most even in velocity.
(3.8gn was very even actually)

The cases looks about the same as the picture I took yesterday, only they got more sot on them now.
When I loaded all the rounds I tried to day I expanded the case neck more than the first try yesterday. And changed the OAL to 1.240

As I only have used factory ammunition before in the gun I reacted on how dirty It was after the shooting to day.


Any ideas how I should continue?
It would be nice to get the load to major but since I dont shoot IPSC it´s no need.
I doo shoot field target tho with varying distances to the target, sometimes up to 87 yards.

This post has been edited by Diezel: 19 November 2005 - 05:21 AM

[AustinMike]

Those velocities are not surprising with the jacketed bullets. A lot of guys out here are shooting LSWC to hit that Major breakpoint. The 4.0 of N310 with Precision bullets runs about 750fps out of my gun and that's the load I've been using for steel. I'll be switching to JHPs when I'm out of those and I'll be experimenting as you are now, but I don't plan on pushing them to Major PF. It may be that those XTPs won't be able to reach Major safely with N310 out of your barrel.

If you're not seeing any pressure signs, you should be able to go up another tenth or two. Sub 700fps is pretty slow. Bump it up a notch and if nothing else, you'll probably have a nice soft Minor load, that's probably pretty accurate and fun to shoot for practice. Of the powders I've shot, Clays and N310 have been the cleanest. I have observed that N310 gets cleaner and more consistent with the higher charges.

For what it's worth, I use 230gr. bullets for Major. I don't have to go very far from published max loads and it feels super soft and shoots accurately. At the same PF, 230gr. feels softer than 200gr. to me. There are folks here who will say the exact opposite though. It's a matter of personal preference.

Experiment safely and over time you'll find the ideal loads for your needs.

This post has been edited by AustinMike: 19 November 2005 - 02:40 PM

[Diezel]

Hi

Thanks for your answer Mike.
I have made some with 4.1gn N310 now for testing tomorrow.
I also adjusted the OAL to 1.250. Just to be safe I used a marker pen around where
the bullet and case meet and loaded it in my barrel. I can now see marks of the lands
in the paint i applied. I found the C.O.L in an Hornady reloading manual and it says 1.240 for the 200gn XTP.
So I now have seeted it deeper to 1.240

This post has been edited by Diezel: 19 November 2005 - 03:49 PM

[whizz]

I use for 230 grain FMJ:
OAL 32.0 millimeter
4.6 grains VV N310
Crimp 11.9 mm
Federal or RWS primers (both works fine)

Hope it helps.

[Diezel]

Hi Whizz

That sounds a little hot.
VV lists 4.2gn as max charge for a 230gn FMJ.
Ill buy some S&B 230gn FMJ this week and try them, working it
slowly up.

This post has been edited by Diezel: 20 November 2005 - 02:03 AM

[AustinMike]

Quote

That sounds a little hot.
VV lists 4.2gn as max charge for a 230gn FMJ.

Here's what I got last trip to the range:

Zero 230 FMJ
4.2 grains N310
1.260"
Federal Primer
734fps
Kimber 1911 5" barrel

No pressure signs, clean, and soft shooting.

I'm going to seat down to 1.250" and maybe bump up to 4.3 grains. Major PF in the U.S. is 165, but I want to run at 170 to have a bigger margin.

[Diezel]

Hello

Thanks for your answers.

I tried my 4.1gn load to day, V0= 738 fps
I shoot this group standing on my knees, holding with both hands
and using a rifle rest to support the gun. Distance 27 yards. Remember, it´s a stock Mil-Spec.


The line is brooken between the 9 & 10, so three 10´s. :-)

The group is 2.6" C-C, seems that the group gets smaller with speed.

No pressure signs, a little more recoil. Might bump it up to 4.2gn or 4.3gn.

This post has been edited by Diezel: 20 November 2005 - 05:00 PM

[9146gt]

VV now has some N310 .45 loads listed in the downloadable manual on there web site.

Tom

[SVI4ME]

ricciardelli, on Nov 18 2005, 05:56 PM, said:

N-310 not a good choice...

N-320 From 4.8 grains to 6.0 grains
CCI-300 Primer
N-330 From 5.5 grains to 8.0 grains
CCI-300 Primer
N-340 From 5.8 grains to 8.3 grains
CCI-300 Primer
N-350 From 6.8 grains to 7.8 grains
CCI-300 Primer

I spoke with Robbie L. and his load was 4.0 of Vit 310 and a 230. So that is what I use now and it works great

[Diezel]

Robbie L as in Rob Leatham ? :-)

I tried 4.0gn behind a S&B 230 gn FMJ this weekend and it seems to work good.
Got a V5 of 702 fps. Yesterday I tried 4.1gn without pressure signs. I had no crono
so I dont know the velocity. I guess V5 is about 720 fps.

This post has been edited by Diezel: 28 November 2005 - 01:08 AM

[9146gt]

My PPC load

MG 185 JHP
4.4 grains N310
1.20"
Federal primers
750 fps
SD 18

S&W 5" 945

Tom

[whizz]

Diezel, on Nov 28 2005, 01:01 AM, said:

Robbie L as in Rob Leatham ? :-)

I tried 4.0gn behind a S&B 230 gn FMJ this weekend and it seems to work good.
Got a V5 of 702 fps. Yesterday I tried 4.1gn without pressure signs. I had no crono
so I dont know the velocity. I guess V5 is about 720 fps.

That is also my experience. The N310 gives too little "ooommph" with low charges. To get in the range of 775 to 800 fps I need to use 4.6 grains to a 230 grain FMJ as I said earlier. In my loading table from VV the max charge is 4.5 grains so I´m at the edge here. To reach the IPSC PF for Major with a comfortable margin this is my choice. It works fine in my S&W 625 but might be too hot for other guns. Have also tried the Vectan Ba10 powder which gets me the right speed at a lower charge, 4.3 grains. A bit dirtier but also cheaper.

Stay safe and keep on blammin'.

Conny