16 replies to this topic

[Flyin40]

In a recent thread trigger control came up. I know I have some issues with it. When I pull the trigger in dryfire after the hammer is dropped from the intial pull the dot moves down each time I pull it. Not much, just some and its not due to the wobble zone. I'm just starting to look into this but I'm wondering if anyone has any video of some up close footage of someone trigger finger while shooting or links to somewhere I can download it. I have never worked on trigger control and I always assumed I slapped the trigger. Now that I'm aware of it I find I don't lose contact with the trigger while shooting, at least I don't think I do. I'll end up video taping myself to see for sure.

Whats the proper technique for shooting???


Flyin40

[Flexmoney]

There seem to be lots of good shooters in either camp. There are the trigger slappers and the trigger riders.

I ride the trigger. Which, with my Glock shooting, likely lets me negate some of the two stage feel that the Glock trigger has.

Within that, I know that I often torque on the trigger pretty hard at times. Other times, I think I use a softer touch. That might be one of those things that is shot difficulty dependent...and, changes as we pay attention.

[hopalong]

I agree with Flex.

Also as the shot difficulty gets harder you will find yourself not only working the trigger differently, your type focus (brians book) will change too.

With time and experiance all this will happen without you even thinking about it.

Good luck.

HOPALONG

[Ken Kwiat]

Flyin40,

Like Flex, I'm a trigger rider too. On super fast, up close stuff I'm sure I slap occasionally. Depends on the focus type as Hopalong mentions -- BE's book covers this really well. I like to use the front pad of my trigger finger for the most tactile control possible. Ron Avery suggests a drill pushing a pencil downward in your hand, focusing pushing straight down with the pad of the finger to work on eliminating any lateral force exerted. You can feel lateral force being applied against the other three fingers that the pencil is sliding through. Hard to describe in a quick response but hopefully you're following.
Best of luck.
Ken

[bountyhunter]

In a recent thread trigger control came up. I know I have some issues with it. When I pull the trigger in dryfire after the hammer is dropped from the intial pull the dot moves down each time I pull it.

Whats the proper technique for shooting???


Flyin40

Rotation downward or going "low left" can be from clenching the dominat hand gripping fingers in "sympathy" for the trigger finger's pulling action. Holding a firm and STEADY pressure with the three grip fingers and letting the trigger finger pull independently will probably cure it.... and it is one of the most difficult skills to master.

[Unleashed]

I would agree with the previous posts...I have never been able to agree with trigger slap, unless the targets are really close. Trigger control is learned over time as your eyes tell your hands what to do, cutting out the middle man (the conscious brain!). And as earlier stated, consistency is the key.

[kevin c]

I understand that TGO slaps the trigger. I used to ride the trigger, and just started to overcome pulling my follow up shots low and left (RH shooter) when I deliberately started to come off the trigger face. Riding the trigger was a bit faster for me, but slapping it gets me better hits for marginally increased split time.

Perhaps a matter of individual anatomy and individual cumulative technique?

Just bumbling along in B class.

[Pierruiggi]

I guess I'm in the middle of both camps...
Some times I slap and sometimes I ride the trigger; I still haven't identified if a particular set of circumstances causes me to ride or slap the trigger. The only exception is that I have a tendency to break contact, to slightly separate, my finger from the trigger when transitioning targets; it's not a marked "slap" that almost hits the trigger guard (ala Todd Jarret), but there's a definite and noticeable separation from the trigger.
Other than that detail I noticed, I don't care much how I'm operating the trigger.
I've thrown shots off target when both riding and slapping; and I've shot "perfect" shots at 25yds when riding and slapping.
I guess it's just something I let flow with the shooting...

[Unleashed]

Call me "old fashioned" or maybe I misunderstand, but I know that you will not put down "perfect" shots at 25yds when you slap the trigger. That technique is overly stated and often mis-pronounced.

[Pierruiggi]

Just to clarify, the word "slap" implies a violent contact. It is not necesarely so. I'd say it's more akin to moving the finger like the trigger isn't there. A "bump" with the trigger occurs at some point in the finger's travel, but it's not violent, and, if your hand position, hand anatomy, how the grip fits you, and how your finger moves allow for a movement straight to the back, that "bump" will not cause a significant movement to the gun to throw off a shot.
Like I said, I've shot "perfect" shots like this.
I can only describe how I perceive the event. It is beyond me if you believe me or not.

Edited by Pierruiggi, 27 October 2005 - 03:20 AM.

[kevin c]

Just to clarify, the word "slap" implies...

Now that you mention it, mebbe our understanding of the term "trigger slapping" does vary.

For me, I kinda went at it bass ackwards - "riding the trigger", I was told, meant never breaking contact between the trigger face and the pad of the trigger finger. So I assumed that "slapping the trigger" meant just that the finger broke contact with the trigger between shots. I hadn't thought of it in terms of how far off and how hard the finger came back, nor how fast/continuously/whatever the pull through on the trigger happened after contact.

Other interpretations?

[GuildSF4]

Just to clarify, the word "slap" implies...

Now that you mention it, mebbe our understanding of the term "trigger slapping" does vary.

For me, I kinda went at it bass ackwards - "riding the trigger", I was told, meant never breaking contact between the trigger face and the pad of the trigger finger. So I assumed that "slapping the trigger" meant just that the finger broke contact with the trigger between shots. I hadn't thought of it in terms of how far off and how hard the finger came back, nor how fast/continuously/whatever the pull through on the trigger happened after contact.

Other interpretations?

These definitions (interpetations) are what I understand the terms to mean also. As for throwing the shot off by slapping hard, I always termed that jerking the trigger (this can happen even on riding the trigger).

[eric nielsen]

[Flyin40]
"Rotation downward or going "low left" can be from clenching the dominat hand gripping fingers in "sympathy" for the trigger finger's pulling action. Holding a firm and STEADY pressure with the three grip fingers and letting the trigger finger pull independently will probably cure it.... and it is one of the most difficult skills to master."


That is what Rob accomplishes with slapping. It's the one-shooter version of his training technique of letting a student aim in a target as steady as possible and let Rob touch off the trigger for them. The group size that results is usually one ragged hole.

Beautiful footage of Rob & Todd's triggering can be seen on the new 2005 Nationals DVDs from Saul Kirsch and andersonshooting.com. I'd buy both. Play them back at 1/8th or 1/16th speed & you'll see a lot & learn a lot.

Eric Grauffel also slaps but with a more distinct pause before the break. He releases his finger quickly but takes up the trigger slack more deliberately.

I've re-taught myself to ride the Glock trigger but I still need to slap it for fast shots inside of 10 yards or I get nasty trigger-freeze. My opinion only but the heavier & longer your trigger breaks, the less benefit you get from slapping.

Edited by eric nielsen, 28 October 2005 - 07:42 AM.

[Paul Sharp]

"Just to clarify, the word "slap" implies a violent contact. It is not necesarely so. I'd say it's more akin to moving the finger like the trigger isn't there. A "bump" with the trigger occurs at some point in the finger's travel, but it's not violent, and, if your hand position, hand anatomy, how the grip fits you, and how your finger moves allow for a movement straight to the back, that "bump" will not cause a significant movement to the gun to throw off a shot.
Like I said, I've shot "perfect" shots like this.
I can only describe how I perceive the event. It is beyond me if you believe me or not."


I've struggled for years to describe how I have been taught to work the trigger. That is the single best description I've come across. Mind if I use that in the future?

[Pierruiggi]

I've struggled for years to describe how I have been taught to work the trigger. That is the single best description I've come across. Mind if I use that in the future?

Thanks, and by all means, use whatever you want. My words aren't copyrighted... yet.

[benos]

As long as you don't move the gun off the target, "how" you pull the trigger is up to you.
be

[Sean Gaines]

If you watch "Shooter Ready" you can see Rob slaping the trigger really fast. I still love the secret service scene in there with all the fake fog. lol