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Federal XM193 5.56mm M193 Ball ammo


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#1 Mike41

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 04:43 PM

Is the Federal XM193 5.56mm M193 Ball ammo ok for steel in all matches?  I know some matches have some requirements about some steel type ammo that can damage the steel targets.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike



#2 fishsticks

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 04:58 PM

Typically m193 should be ok. Check with a magnet to be double sure. Some matches may frown on it as it is high velocity. But by definition, m193 is 55gr fmj. You may be thinking of m855 which is steel core.

#3 ac4wordplay

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

 ok for steel in all matches?

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

 

We can't answer this question. Usually fine for most matches, but you should check with the MD (of whatever match you are interested in) and get a comprehensive list of their requirements and prohibitions.


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#4 Flatland Shooter

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 05:26 PM

Is the Federal XM193 5.56mm M193 Ball ammo ok for steel in all matches?  I know some matches have some requirements about some steel type ammo that can damage the steel targets.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

 

Someone posted on the forum that some clubs no longer allow XM193 for steel.  The reason given was the high velocity (3150 fps in some guns) was causing damage.

 

At this point, none of my local clubs have followed suit so I will continue to use XM193 for matches and practice when I use steel.  I do use the much cheaper Tula for short range paper practice.

 

When the MD disallow it, I'll stop using it.

 

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#5 Religious Shooter

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 06:28 PM

No it's not OK at all matches.  :mellow:

 

It was specifically not allowed at Ironman.  That said, that's the only match that I know of that didn't allow it and I don't see it on the rules or FAQ anymore on the matches' website.

 

But there's still a restriction at the MGM Targets website in their FAQ.

 

As it's already been mentioned, you need to ask the MD of the match that you are shooting to be sure. 


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#6 Nickoli

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 09:07 PM

If it is not permitted, its because of the velocities. I'm not good at math, but I believe a high velocity 55s grain.bullet will do more damage than a 150 grain bullet traveling at much slower velocities.

That being said, marches here in MI only care about steel core ammo because those burn right through the steel no problem. The clubs do have specific distances they place the steel at to minimize the damage done to them.

#7 ambluemax

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:11 AM

Really, high velocity 223 is a no-no but heavy metal guys can bang away with 308? Wtf?

#8 Chuck Anderson

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:47 AM

Really, high velocity 223 is a no-no but heavy metal guys can bang away with 308? Wtf?


It's not the caliber or weight that damage steel it's the velocity. A fast .223 will burn a crater in steel. .308 is generally slower and even though it weighs more won't damage steel. Watched someone smack a plate rack with .308 last year at about 15 yards. No mark on the plate.

#9 Mike41

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:30 PM

OK, how about for the Pro Am at Rockcastle?  OK or No Go?

 

Just would like to know so I can avoid or have the green light to buy.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike



#10 ac4wordplay

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:19 PM

OK, how about for the Pro Am at Rockcastle?  OK or No Go?

 

Just would like to know so I can avoid or have the green light to buy.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

 

Ask the Match Director.


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#11 ambluemax

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:32 AM

Really, high velocity 223 is a no-no but heavy metal guys can bang away with 308? Wtf?

It's not the caliber or weight that damage steel it's the velocity. A fast .223 will burn a crater in steel. .308 is generally slower and even though it weighs more won't damage steel. Watched someone smack a plate rack with .308 last year at about 15 yards. No mark on the plate.

Hmm, usually its 308 shooters breaking stuff at our matches.

I've only been checked with a magnet at majors

#12 Why1504

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:37 AM

So what is the preferred ammo? What about reloads?

#13 JPeel

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:24 AM

I've shot a lot of steel targets from 50 yds to 600 yds with a 62gr fmj at muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and have yet to damage an AR500 target.  There's less than a 100 ft-lb difference in the impact energy of that load vs a 55gr at 3100 fps.  

 

Not saying that some matches don't allow the XM193, but if their targets are AR500 steel they shouldn't be damaged by that round.  If the targets aren't up to that standard then just about any 556 round will damage it.



#14 Chuck Anderson

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:19 AM

I've shot a lot of steel targets from 50 yds to 600 yds with a 62gr fmj at muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and have yet to damage an AR500 target.  There's less than a 100 ft-lb difference in the impact energy of that load vs a 55gr at 3100 fps.  
 
Not saying that some matches don't allow the XM193, but if their targets are AR500 steel they shouldn't be damaged by that round.  If the targets aren't up to that standard then just about any 556 round will damage it.


Again, it's not the kinetic energy that damages them. It's the velocity creating heat energy. That's why the craters look like they are melted. I've damaged steel at closer range using XM193. Shot the same steel with 77gr closer and didn't even dimple it.

#15 Chuck Anderson

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:21 AM

Really, high velocity 223 is a no-no but heavy metal guys can bang away with 308? Wtf?

It's not the caliber or weight that damage steel it's the velocity. A fast .223 will burn a crater in steel. .308 is generally slower and even though it weighs more won't damage steel. Watched someone smack a plate rack with .308 last year at about 15 yards. No mark on the plate.
Hmm, usually its 308 shooters breaking stuff at our matches.

I've only been checked with a magnet at majors

They are probably knocking flash targets over or breaking welds maybe. But actual damage to the steel plate is unusual with .308. Unless you guys are using really cheap steel.

#16 GunCat

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:39 AM

OK, how about for the Pro Am at Rockcastle?  OK or No Go?
 
Just would like to know so I can avoid or have the green light to buy.
 
Thanks,
 
Mike


NO steel core, jackets, etc. (anything about the bullet that will attract a magnet) is allowed. No other ammo prohibition at the Pro-Am thus far.

Steve Rose

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#17 mpeltier

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:18 AM

I've shot a lot of steel targets from 50 yds to 600 yds with a 62gr fmj at muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and have yet to damage an AR500 target.  There's less than a 100 ft-lb difference in the impact energy of that load vs a 55gr at 3100 fps.  
 
Not saying that some matches don't allow the XM193, but if their targets are AR500 steel they shouldn't be damaged by that round.  If the targets aren't up to that standard then just about any 556 round will damage it.

Again, it's not the kinetic energy that damages them. It's the velocity creating heat energy. That's why the craters look like they are melted. I've damaged steel at closer range using XM193. Shot the same steel with 77gr closer and didn't even dimple it.

Not all steel is created equal. We use M193 exclusively at work. Our poppers are at 100yds and get shot by more rounds than any public range steel and there is no damage. Mostly just leaves a grey smudge. The poppers are AR500 steel. I believe the issue arises due to inferior steel or mistaken identity of the ammo.
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#18 Chuck Anderson

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:57 AM

I've shot a lot of steel targets from 50 yds to 600 yds with a 62gr fmj at muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and have yet to damage an AR500 target.  There's less than a 100 ft-lb difference in the impact energy of that load vs a 55gr at 3100 fps.  
 
Not saying that some matches don't allow the XM193, but if their targets are AR500 steel they shouldn't be damaged by that round.  If the targets aren't up to that standard then just about any 556 round will damage it.

Again, it's not the kinetic energy that damages them. It's the velocity creating heat energy. That's why the craters look like they are melted. I've damaged steel at closer range using XM193. Shot the same steel with 77gr closer and didn't even dimple it.


Not all steel is created equal. We use M193 exclusively at work. Our poppers are at 100yds and get shot by more rounds than any public range steel and there is no damage. Mostly just leaves a grey smudge. The poppers are AR500 steel. I believe the issue arises due to inferior steel or mistaken identity of the ammo.


Not to keep arguing this, but are you guys using 16" or shorter barrels and have you shot it at 50 yards. There is enough of a velocity difference out of a 16" or less barrel compared to 18" and 20" barrels that are common at 3 Gun matches. There's also a bit of velocity loss by the time you get to 100. As an example, Winchester 55 gr starting off at 3240 is only going 2854 at 100. Figure at least 150 fps of that velocity loss is between 50 and 100. Hitting steel at 2800 fps and not damaging it is really not that difficult.

#19 mpeltier

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:43 AM

I've shot a lot of steel targets from 50 yds to 600 yds with a 62gr fmj at muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and have yet to damage an AR500 target.  There's less than a 100 ft-lb difference in the impact energy of that load vs a 55gr at 3100 fps.  
 
Not saying that some matches don't allow the XM193, but if their targets are AR500 steel they shouldn't be damaged by that round.  If the targets aren't up to that standard then just about any 556 round will damage it.

Again, it's not the kinetic energy that damages them. It's the velocity creating heat energy. That's why the craters look like they are melted. I've damaged steel at closer range using XM193. Shot the same steel with 77gr closer and didn't even dimple it.
Not all steel is created equal. We use M193 exclusively at work. Our poppers are at 100yds and get shot by more rounds than any public range steel and there is no damage. Mostly just leaves a grey smudge. The poppers are AR500 steel. I believe the issue arises due to inferior steel or mistaken identity of the ammo.
Not to keep arguing this, but are you guys using 16" or shorter barrels and have you shot it at 50 yards. There is enough of a velocity difference out of a 16" or less barrel compared to 18" and 20" barrels that are common at 3 Gun matches. There's also a bit of velocity loss by the time you get to 100. As an example, Winchester 55 gr starting off at 3240 is only going 2854 at 100. Figure at least 150 fps of that velocity loss is between 50 and 100. Hitting steel at 2800 fps and not damaging it is really not that difficult.

Not arguing, good discussion. Yes we are using 16" guns at work. We are not allowed to shoot steel closer than 100yds for safety concerns. Come to think of it I've not been to a match either that shot rifle steel closer than 100yds. I have however shot the same ammo in my 20" game gun at the same poppers (3150 fps over my chrono) with the same minimal grey smudges. I have shot AR400 steel with the same ammo and noticed some cratering. I often wonder if AR400 is often mistaken for AR500.
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#20 Chuck Anderson

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:53 AM

I'm pretty sure MGM is using AR500. Although even in steel grading there is a range. It's not exact. I've shot several matches with rifle steel at 50 yards. The MGM Ironman being one for sure. That's probably part of the restriction they have. I didn't realize there was such a velocity drop in the first hundred yards. I'm betting that 20" is clocking under 2800 by the time it hits the popper.

#21 mpeltier

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:14 AM

Ironman is on my "To do" list. Has MGM always used AR500 on their rifle steel? As I've been thinking about it I recently shot the USCA match here in florida and they had one of those evil spinners. It was close, like 12 yards. I was using my 75gr match loads and no problems. Several on our squad were using xm193 and I saw no apparent cratering on it. They were using 18" guns. Maybee steel is softer on the west coast. Lol
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#22 Chuck Anderson

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:55 AM

As far as I know they have. 12 yard spinner with rifle? No way would I put that in the match. No way to control the angle of the spatter. But it's also pretty mobile on the axle. The steel does a pretty good job of moving with the impact. Try that with a static, or not as evenly balanced piece of steel and I'm betting you'd see some craters.

#23 GuildSF4

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:12 PM

XM193 and 55 grain 223 can put a slight dimple in AR500 plate even at 100 yards, (no marking other than the paint from 308 at 100 yds).

 

Plasma cut AR500 (not water table), softens the edge and makes it more susceptible at the edges. Water table plasma cut is better, although it still shows some degradation towards the edges. Have not tried Laser cut.

 

I have some water-jet cut targets coming in and will post the results when I get a chance to test them. If the results are good (which I expect they will be) all of my rifle rated targets will be water-jet cut in the future. Pistol rated metal targets will probably still be water table plasma cut (as water-jet cutting is more expensive).


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