[Bill Nesbitt]

This was a stage the Springfield guys put on at Hancock County.

Imagine this if you can. In a semi circle starting on the left side of the bay. 1 target at contact distance that must be engaged from retention. Then freestyle for the rest. Target placing going from left to right, a target at 5 yds or so. A swinger with some hard cover and no shoots. 2 five foot targets straight down range with two Poppers in front of them. A drop turner. Then 2 more targets toward the right side of the bay. There were hard cover and no shoots sprinkled around to limit where you could see some of the targets. At the signal engage the contact target first and the rest in any order. They were all about the same distance. Either Popper would activate both the drop turner and the swinger. There was a car behind you that you had to retreat to and use as cover after you got there. All shots had to be fired while retreating or from cover. It was fun. One of those stages that you just wanted to shoot again to see if you could improve your score.

Bill Nesbitt

[MikeyG23]

I personally prefer the "solve the problem" stages over the choreographed stages that are common place in IDPA. To me the ideal stage is start here and finish there, all IDPA rules apply. It's a shame there aren't more of those type stages....

[geezer-lock]

Freestyle is really not much of an issue in most cases because dance steps are everywhere. This was the very first CoF example I encountered from the USPSA course book:

“STAGE PROCEDURE
On signal, engage T1 - T4 ONLY from Box A; move to Box B
and engage T5 – T8 ONLY from Box B; move to Box C and
engage T9 - T12 ONLY from Box C. Targets may only be
engaged from within a box.”

The Internet gives us access to thousands of published CoF's for both IPSC and IDPA. The type of stage you describe is very uncommon in either discipline. Any requirement of the stage is a dance step. Some have fewer than others but they nearly all have them. Target order is a dance step, required number or placement of rounds is a dance step, movement is a dance step, choosing a port is a dance step. In Bill’s example: “a car behind you that you had to retreat to and use as cover” is a dance step and the use of cover requires a certain target order (in IDPA).

In the tango the upper body is just as important as the feet, and just as carefully choreographed. If you know your partner well the process requires no communication beyond following the music. At a club match the description, “Move to cover and engage the remaining threats” can work well if everyone knows how to fill in the blanks (slice-the-pie, reload behind cover, etc). When there is more at stake designers tend to fill in the blanks for you so as to eliminate argument.


geezer

[rmills]

Bill Nesbitt, on Nov 16 2004, 06:43 PM, said:

This was a stage the Springfield guys put on at Hancock County.

Imagine this if you can. In a semi circle starting on the left side of the bay. 1 target at contact distance that must be engaged from retention. Then freestyle for the rest. Target placing going from left to right, a target at 5 yds or so. A swinger with some hard cover and no shoots. 2 five foot targets straight down range with two Poppers in front of them. A drop turner. Then 2 more targets toward the right side of the bay. There were hard cover and no shoots sprinkled around to limit where you could see some of the targets. At the signal engage the contact target first and the rest in any order. They were all about the same distance. Either Popper would activate both the drop turner and the swinger. There was a car behind you that you had to retreat to and use as cover after you got there. All shots had to be fired while retreating or from cover. It was fun. One of those stages that you just wanted to shoot again to see if you could improve your score.

Bill Nesbitt

Looks like a fun stage!

[rmills]

geezer-lock, on Nov 17 2004, 10:05 AM, said:

Freestyle is really not much of an issue in most cases because dance steps are everywhere. This was the very first CoF example I encountered from the USPSA course book:

“STAGE PROCEDURE
On signal, engage T1 - T4 ONLY from Box A; move to Box B
and engage T5 – T8 ONLY from Box B; move to Box C and
engage T9 - T12 ONLY from Box C. Targets may only be
engaged from within a box.”

The Internet gives us access to thousands of published CoF's for both IPSC and IDPA. The type of stage you describe is very uncommon in either discipline. Any requirement of the stage is a dance step. Some have fewer than others but they nearly all have them. Target order is a dance step, required number or placement of rounds is a dance step, movement is a dance step, choosing a port is a dance step. In Bill’s example: “a car behind you that you had to retreat to and use as cover” is a dance step and the use of cover requires a certain target order (in IDPA).

In the tango the upper body is just as important as the feet, and just as carefully choreographed. If you know your partner well the process requires no communication beyond following the music. At a club match the description, “Move to cover and engage the remaining threats” can work well if everyone knows how to fill in the blanks (slice-the-pie, reload behind cover, etc). When there is more at stake designers tend to fill in the blanks for you so as to eliminate argument.


geezer

I agree. The IDPA rule book states that shooting boxes should not be used if possible and the the COF designer should use vision barriers, etc. to create the scenario. The shooter should have freedom to move as they see fit while using cover, etc.

I too tired of the "From Box A engage ONLY T1 and T2, etc.".

[rmills]

MikeyG23, on Nov 17 2004, 06:55 AM, said:

I personally prefer the "solve the problem" stages over the choreographed stages that are common place in IDPA. To me the ideal stage is start here and finish there, all IDPA rules apply. It's a shame there aren't more of those type stages....

At our monthly matches, we typically have 1 to 2 "Standard Excercise" stages and the the other four are typically freestyle.

[shred]

FWIW at the USPSA nationals this year there were no shooting boxes beyond the start box. No "shoot this, go to box B, shoot that".

I can see why local match designers sometimes throw down a box-- it's a whole lot easier than trying to set up a ton of walls early Saturday morning, but their use in IPSC / USPSA matches has really tailed off. This is a good thing.

[COF]

We shot a stage this weekend at the Missouri State match that was as freestyle as any I'd seen in a while. Initially, it looks like an IPSC stage but requires use of cover and allows reenging targets from different positions. I'll admit the scenario was a bit hokey for an IDPA stage but it was still a fun stage to shoot. Here is the description:

Scenario: You’re one of the newest Marines for the 2nd battalion 3rd marine division in Iraq. As luck would have it, you are on guard duty over night in Saddam’s Tikrit palace. While you are pacing the balcony during you rounds insurgent forces storm the palace. Being out in the open is not the place to be, fight you way off the balcony to the safety of the palace.

Procedure: At Start signal, the shooter will engage targets T1 through T9 in tactical Priority using cover as you move from pillar to pillar to reach the palace. Reload as necessary using any IDPA legal reload.

Shooter started walking parallel to the barrels on standby and engaged the targets on the buzzer.

For a simple stage, it ate a lot of shooters' lunch because it was real easy to lose track of the targets - your's truly included!

Jerry

Attached File(s)

•  Guarduty.pdf (17.67K)
  Number of downloads: 72

[Middle Man]

I have just finished my year as my IDPA club's president and match director. Thinking back, several shooters commented that many of my COF were "ipsc-lite", which is pretty much true. Now looking back at my designs, I see a pattern of less and less "scripting" and more stages with the "start here and solve the problem".

[freeidaho]

Middle Man, on Oct 16 2005, 06:23 AM, said:

I have just finished my year as my IDPA club's president and match director.  Thinking back, several shooters commented that many of my COF were "ipsc-lite", which is pretty much true.  Now looking back at my designs, I see a pattern of less and less "scripting" and more stages with the "start here and solve the problem".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sir Middle,
I like em....

provided all IDPA rules are enforced. The freestyle-ness of these stages is great. Indeed, if one did not call cover pretty closely, they could turn into IPSC stages.

Like in the last stage. In IPSC there would several more ways to shoot the COF than in IDPA, because in IDPA the shooter can't be exposed to un-neutralized threats. That to me makes it more fun, but indeed it makes it more difficult to SO.

I guess the real question is: "Have you trained your replacement over the last year?"

Good COFs.

Ken Reed
"You are what you do."

[Jim Norman]

Generally speaking a good stage if properly designed AND built will have a start position. You engage the targets inthe fastest possible way, and on an as seen basis. Ports in walls (windows) are meerly boxes turned vertical, so if you build a stage where you have to go to every port and can only shoot in one order it is no different than Box A, Box B and so on. If however the stage has open and conealed targets and you can engage them in differing orders it is better, it is a problem solving stage. One thing that can be difficult in a small local match is vetting a stage so that there is not one or two "sweet spots" where a shooter can get to and just hose the stage. One thing I like about IDPA (maybe the only) is that you can be required to shoot on the move. In USPSA you are not allowed in matches over level 1 (Club Matchers) to require shooting positions or order of engagement.

In truth there are very good IPSC/USPSA clubs and also I am sure some very good innovative IDPA clubs. Unfortunatly there are clubs with stodgy membership or limited member participation that put on matches that just are not up to what should be. Often the difference between a good match and a poor match is a few words or a couple of minor tweaks to a stage design and the willingness to help out on the part of the shooters.

There is a big wide world out there and it seems most people in it at best don't understand us and at worst hate us for no reason. We need to learn to live together. Shooting is shooting. There are different kinds of shooting, but together we are far stronger than we are as 20 differnt groups. Anyone that thinks that "Their" shooting sport is safe should look to England or Austrailia or Canada for the answers, or to MA, HI, CA, NJ or NY right here at home.

Together we may hang but separatly we shall shurely hang.

Jim Norman

[Middle Man]

freeidaho, on Oct 16 2005, 09:47 AM, said:

Middle Man, on Oct 16 2005, 06:23 AM, said:

I have just finished my year as my IDPA club's president and match director.  Thinking back, several shooters commented that many of my COF were "ipsc-lite", which is pretty much true.   Now looking back at my designs, I see a pattern of less and less "scripting" and more stages with the "start here and solve the problem".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sir Middle,
I like em....

provided all IDPA rules are enforced. The freestyle-ness of these stages is great. Indeed, if one did not call cover pretty closely, they could turn into IPSC stages.

Like in the last stage. In IPSC there would several more ways to shoot the COF than in IDPA, because in IDPA the shooter can't be exposed to un-neutralized threats. That to me makes it more fun, but indeed it makes it more difficult to SO.

I guess the real question is: "Have you trained your replacement over the last year?"

Good COFs.

Ken Reed
"You are what you do."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, glad you liked the designs. I tried hard to make "fun to shoot" stages. We tried to call an even game as RO's and there were always a few shooters with a procedural for exposing themselves (myself included). Some would run by a target, but it was usually related to incorrectly slicing the pie. If you give the shooters plenty of well defined cover, those traps are avoided from the start.

As it stands now, our IDPA club is done. There are quite a few factors in it's retirement. Most prominently, a change of schedule by another club in our area cut the number of shooters at our match in half and with a sizable contingent of traveling shooters that hit regional matches, attendance dropped pretty low some months. Additionally, I may be relocating early in 2006. All in all, the club had a good, successful five year run. A new IDPA club may move into our spot at the range, so I guess it could continue.

[Middle Man]

Here are a few more long IDPA CoF's, enjoy. Please make good use of them and please change them to suit your needs.