[Dave Bell]

I picked up a Beretta .40 Model 96 the other day because it was filthy and needed a new home where someone would take care of it. I like it a lot. I was thinking of trying it out for SSP. Of course, the problem is that the first shot involves the double action (long) trigger pull. I practiced a bit and can draw, hit the safety, and pull that long pull and still hit a 6" paper plate pretty consistently. Here's my questions for the board, however

1. Would it be better to leave the decock off while holstered, and draw and pull double action?
2. Or, would it be better to leave the decock off and cock the hammer while bringing the pistol up to sight?
3. Or, would it be better to leave the pistol decocked, hit the decock lever while bringing it up to sight, and pull double action?

I know there's no "right" answer, just interested in more experienced folks' ideas on this topic. besides, I'm bored right now.

Dave

[revchuck]

Dave - I am a long way from the most experienced Beretta shooter on this forum, but IMO it's best to leave the safety/decocker off and fire the first shot DA. Cocking the hammer is allowed, but usually takes more time than it saves.

Some self-defense experts feel you should leave the safety on and practice disengaging it during the draw. Their reasoning is that if a BG gets ahold of your gun in a scuffle, they'll have to figure out how to off-safe it before they can try to shoot you with it. The argument has merit, and I might try this myself. If you don't plan on carrying the Beretta for self defense, though, it's a non-issue.

The DA/SA transition issue is not as difficult as the I-won't-shoot-nuthin'-but-a-1911 crowd would have you believe.

[LPatterson]

Dave,

I think the first thing for you to do is do a search for Beretta. That said, I will provide some experiences for my first year shooting production.

1. Load the gun, decock & take off the decock/safety. Nothing feels stupider than that first shot with the decocker on. Ask how I know, twice!

2. Get a Langdon trigger job. If that is not an option, buy some Beretta D model main springs (hammer spring) and file/grind a 1/8" off each end & try for 100% reliability with the ammo you will be using. If it is reliable set it aside and file/grind 1/4" off the next one but do not go any shorter. Use these for competition ONLY.

[DougCarden]

I carried a Beretta everyday for the last twelve years and am an armorer. I am by no means an expert and agree totally with Graywolf. Langdon has some lighter hammer mainsprings than the "D" springs for federal primers only. I too clipped a mainspring until I had reliable hits with Winchester primers, then I knew that Federals would be fine. Dry firing will be the best way to smooth out your gun as well. I would strongly recommend minor loads in your .40, since the combo of stout loads with alloy frame in that gun is just plain harsh, and I grew up shooting PIN loads.... Enjoy your gun! DougC

[kraut]

Graywolf_69, on Oct 27 2004, 02:31 PM, said:

...Use these for competition ONLY.

And I always believed that IDPA is for using all day carry equipment

[Jake Di Vita]

First shot double action definetely.

First step is sending it off to Ernie Langdon to get a trigger job. Then just practice with it.

Once you have dry fired a DA pull 100,000 times you don't even notice it any more.

[rmills]

What happened with Ernest Langdon and SIG? His web site states that he no longer does work on SIG's or sells parts for them. Strange after he won last year's IDPA CDP Division beating out TGO with a SIG.

[Steve Moneypenny]

wish i knew what happened with ernie and sig. probabally an interesting tale. probabally neverhear ernie's side as ihe is too nice to spread crap about any company.

ditto to jake's reply. start teh take up early just so the shot breaks as u push the gun out to the target. .... a class to langdon if you are in the right area wouldn't hurt matters any... i'm a student. and his training has taken me far. i still learn from it. and it was 2 years ago

shoot the gun a lot. the factory recoil spring stinx i like heavier for full power 40 it doesn' tbatter your hands as much and i like lighter for powder puff 40's

leave the "safety" off. i carry with one all the time my general draw stroke pushes my thumb along where it would dis-engage it anyway... no bad guy will be taking my gun away from me.. it's a mute point. that i don't plan to train for!!!

[BerettaRacer]

I'll have to go along with whats already been said, "D" spring or LTT trigger job, Dis-engage safety after decock, and pull thru the DA. After a while you wont even notice it. Oh yea, if IDPA rules will allow it, go for the LTT speed bump trigger when you get the trigger job. I personally can't stand the plastic grips and change to Beretta/Hogue wraparounds with the finger groves, that way I grip the same every time.

Rumor on the Beretta forum has it that Ernest was having parts supply problems from Sig, and was spending to much time fending off customers that wanted their gun back from service.

Also Ernest has become moderator, along with a few other well known DA guys, on a new forun for all models of DA guns that went online last week.

http://dashooter.proboards37.com

[revchuck]

BerettaRacer - I wish I had known your taste in grips. I replaced the gummy factory Hogue grips that came on my Brigadier with new plastic ones, bought from Beretta USA at retail. We coulda traded and both been happy.

[NEPAKevin]

Article on Learning the DA trigger:
Fear not the DA shot
HTH
Kevin

[Duane Thomas]

Great article. And Ernie would know. He's probably the best Beretta shooter on the planet. Also the best SIG shooter....

[Allgoodhits]

Ditto on the Ernie Langdon advice previously mentioned. The LTT (Langdon Tactical Technologies) is smoother and lighter than stock and the speedbump trigger acts as a crude overtravel stop. If this is not in your budget, then increasing your grip strength and your trigger finger strength will help. In DA shooting "the tighter the grip the tighter the group."

Regarding the decocker safety issue. Certainly after decocking with the lever move the lever back upward if you know you are about to use the gun, i.e. you are at a match and awaiting the command. If you carry the gun, then you may be comfortable to leave the decocker/safety lever in the "safe" position most of the time. Some areas are simply not as threatening as others. When in any threat area simply flip the lever upward. If in doubt flip the lever upward to the ready position.

Definitely shoot the first shot from the holster DA, but train for it. I very firm grip helps as does experimenting with grip position and trigger finger postion. Pulling the trigger straight to the rear is very important in DA since the stroke is so long. The ideal DA grip is slightly different from the ideal SA grip. Therfore the DA/SA gun must be gripped with the best "compromise" grip given your hand, your gun and your grip panels.

Crimson Trace Laser Grips (CTC) are a wonderful training aid, especially for DA guns, when dry firing as the "laser" provides very good feedback as to what the muzzle was doing at the time the hammer fell. By using CTC lasers you can adjust your grip try them, and see what the effect is. Change you hand position and try again. Keep doing this until the shots break the cleanest for you. Typically, other than slight jerking, you will find that in DA most people tend to cause the muzzle to quickly move either to the left or right when pulling the trigger. Grip and finger placement will solve this, by experimenting and finding what works best for you. Then you have likely discovered the best compromise DA/SA grip. The geometry of the DA trigger is such that it "may" beneifit you by placing your finger slightly lower on the trigger in the DA mode as there is simply more leverage, thus the trigger pressure is reduced to cause the gun to fire. This may give you more control of the trrigger.

The last tidbits on DA and is quite important. Once you have committed to the trigger pull do not stop! Keep the trigger moving until the shot breaks. Stopping the DA trigger "to get the sights more aligned" wil likely cause a worse outcome than if you just simply kept the trigger moving. You must learn to ignore every instinct. Instinct being the gun is moving and or the sights have come misaligned, therefore you must stop pulling the trigger until you get it lined up again. Keep the trigger moving while making slight sighting or alignment adjustments you will have a better result.

[mwc101]

Thanks ALLGOODHITS and others. I was wondering the same thing about my first IPSC shoot this Saturday. I will be shooting my 96fs and was wondering about how to ready the firarm, with decock on or off. I have practiced both ways but the flipping of the lever is not near as smooth as I would like it. I was wondering if, by rule, I would have to start with it on. I'm lloking forward to the competition, even though I am getting in to it "late in life" LOL
I'll be in the middle of the senior division. This forum is the greatest thing. THANK YOU BRYAN! For the forum and for my SafariLand gear. Hope to meet you someday but I have never made it out to your neck of the woods. Only make it to the "left Coast" for conferences. I am really glad to find so many Beretta shooters on this forum. The Beretts forum doesen't seem to be so competition minded.
Keep up the good work!

[19852]

I went the other way with regards to safety on/off. After drawing a few times to find the safety had turned itself "on". I trained myself to flick it off while drawing. Now I holster safety on and sweep it off during the draw, I find it no harder than a 1911 safety and, so far, no problems. I like the "D" spring also.