17 replies to this topic

[old506]

I was watching some "tape" today of various GM's. One of the interesting things that I noticed is how many were going way deep into ports. Now, I couldn't always tell what the target layout was but sometimes I could and I was surprised how deep they were going into the port (arms/pistol through "windows" or muzzle of gun in the port).

I then watched some other tape and again, GM's were going deep into ports or at least getting their pistol into them. Sometimes they would run to a port, get their gun up and into the port while entering (before stopping). I always try to stay a foot or so out of a port (if I can). Most of the time I can shoot away from the port or studder step my way through. I feel like I can get the momentum started earlier getting out of a port without having to retract the pistol (let alone the chance to have a malf or out run the 180). Maybe I need to rethink this?

[partyboy424]

From the GM's I've watched and the ones who've given me tips. Stay out of the port and work more on rotating your lower body around to get your sights on the target. At area 7 I was doing the 5 minute walkthrough and had my gun through the port figuring out how to hit an array. One of the better shooters in the squad came up and immediately let me know that what I was doing was the quickest way to say goodbye to my front sight. Then watching the squad go, more than one shooter who stuck his gun through the port was bashing the slide and sight all over the port under recoil and none of them even knew it until you showed them video.

[Supermoto]

Depends on the port and the targets. If I have a wide transition and I'll have to move for my transitions if I am outside the port, then I will go far enough in to the port that I don't have to move. Otherwise I will stay out far enough were I can transition to the next port or out side the port without having to pull the gun back

[Graham Smith]

There is often no one single right way to do something a lot depends on circumstances and the skill level of the person shooting.

[bigfish]

I know that people do it on purpose and that its part of the game but one of my biggest pet-peeves is when a whole stage is designed so that the ports are high and the targets are close and low making it so that the only way to engage them is to go all the way into the port. I try to stay back and out of the ports when ever I can but alot of times the stage design doesnt allow it. The other thing to consider is sometimes if the targets are really spread out it might be faster to go in the port then to slowly circle the outside to find all the targets. When ever you do enter a port make sure you are following the sights in towards a target, not just sticking the gun in and then finding the sights and targets

[kevin c]

You stick your gun into the port, ya gotta pull it out of the port. That slows you down. But sometimes it makes sense. If you can't address a target any way but by getting into the port, you have to do it.

I agree w/ bigfisth that another issue may not be what you can shoot from what angle, but more what and how fast you can see and set up on the targets that need to be taken from the port. Usually, when up and in a port, you can see all the targets at once and transitions involve small shifts in body position with minimal movement. Further back, away from the port, your vision may be blocked on some targets so that for each you have to move, reacquire and shoot, and repeat. That might cost you a lot more time than it takes to run up, stick it in, blast away and run away again.

Edited by kevin c, 24 November 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Flexmoney]

How about sharing the videos that you saw?

[Nimitz]

We're all just ... shoting in the dark here ... Unless we can see what you saw ...

[old506]

I realize the video would be nice. I was looking at random you-tube videos of various GM's. I will work on it.

I guess what it comes down to is....Is it quicker to go into a port hard and get your hits then power out or finesse on the outside while side-stepping your way across the port.

Like I said, I will work on the video.

[phearkno1]

old506, like many things in our sport there is not hard and defined rule or correct way to go about doing one thing. It all depends on how the stage, port, targets, are layed out as well as the shooters skill and ability. If the port is at the end of the stage why worry about needing to get out of it? If you can't get hits while moving around the outside of the port then any "time" you saved was bled off in points. Flip side is if you can get your hits and engage all the targets in the port while circling outside AND moving to your next shooting position then by all means that is how you should do it. I believe the main thing in my decision making process during a walk through is where do I need to position my self to get my HITS as efficiently as possible.

The word "efficiently" dictates how I act around a port. If the most efficient way to engage the targets is to get in the port then I get in there BUT I only get in as far as I absolutely have to. Sometimes just the muzzle of the gun is barely in in sometime elbows deep. Again only as far as I must because any farther past and I'm loosing time coming out. If I don't go far enough I'm loosing hits or time by having to reposition.

Just my two cents. Remember this sport is simple its a balance of speed and accuracy!

[moonshoxx]

The high level shooters at my club always preach to stay out of those ports. LOL. Being a noob and sponge that is what i "try" to do.

[Sin-ster]

I guess what it comes down to is....Is it quicker to go into a port hard and get your hits then power out or finesse on the outside while side-stepping your way across the port.

You will always SHOOT faster if you take one position and clear an array than if you have to shuffle or change your feet around between targets. (Either that or your hits will really suffer...)

However, in some circumstances, it's foreseeable that "side-stepping your way across the port" might be faster. It's all relative to the stage design, as others have pointed out.

Example of the latter:

You have 6 shots through a port on the left side of a wall, and 4 more through one a few feet to the right of it. There is no way to set up and shoot all 10 shots from one position; you've got to take at least one shuffle step. There is a target hard left through the first port that would require a serious lean from any position you could take those 6 shots from; with a shuffle, you can engage it and make the other 4 shots through the right port from the same spot.

Then you might benefit from shooting 4 through the left, shuffle, the last two from the left and then the 4 from the right.

Even a third-person video view of what you describe might not be that helpful. You've got to stand in front of the array yourself to really see what's going on, in many cases.

Also bear in mind-- the act of pulling the pistol out of the port is a small portion of "being slow" in that situation. In reality, it's the footwork that matters-- if you can't immediately move in the direction of the next array, if you've traveled further than necessary to make the shots (adding steps), etc. Your hands will move faster than the bulk of your body from a dead stop; no one is going to be waiting around for the gun to clear the port before they start moving.

[Supermoto]

I thought this was kind of a neat video for ports, some you had to get into, others you stayed out of

[Sin-ster]

Perfect example video. Going into the first two ports would have been a LOT of wasted time; going into the third port (right) was necessary for the tight shot on the left-most target. And you did the shuffle-shoot a target-turn to the right port that I was talking about in my example, t'boot!

Now I ask everyone else-- does he look slow coming out of the ports where the gun has gone "inside"?


Couldn't find something down at that very last port, eh? Good shooting!

[Supermoto]

Couldn't find something down at that very last port, eh? Good shooting!

Yeah, got a little lost there.

[kevin c]

Now I ask everyone else-- does he look slow coming out of the ports where the gun has gone "inside"?

Point made, sir! Still, there are a lot of folks who will go into a port much deeper than they need to, perhaps to the point where it limits their ability to move directly to the next array (e.g., addressing the last target to the left inside the port while starting to move to the right, they might be in the port on the last shot instead of gaining a step by having the gun out while taking the last shots and retreating to the next array).

[Sin-ster]

Now I ask everyone else-- does he look slow coming out of the ports where the gun has gone "inside"?

Point made, sir! Still, there are a lot of folks who will go into a port much deeper than they need to, perhaps to the point where it limits their ability to move directly to the next array (e.g., addressing the last target to the left inside the port while starting to move to the right, they might be in the port on the last shot instead of gaining a step by having the gun out while taking the last shots and retreating to the next array).

Agreed.

And at the very least, if they're going too deep into a port, they're traveling further than necessary. No matter how fast they do it... that's time wasted.

[rvb]

I like to get into ports farther than most say I "should." I feel the farther out I am the more time I spend shuffling feet and visually hunting for targets to transition to if there is an array on the other side. I cannot transition quickly if I cannot snap my eyes to the next target. The time it takes to pull the gun in to me (and out of the port) pales in comparison to time lost in transitions, imo. The bigger I can make the "window" seem (be being closer), the more I can see, and the more I can see the faster I can transition. If the transitions are close and I can see more than one target while being farther back, I'll do it, but that seems to be the exception...

-rvb