60 replies to this topic

[kurtm]

And not "a bunch -o- them" either. See? A bunch works!

[Rob Tompkins]

Is there a general rule for breaking clay targets? ive been running matches under the "you must clear the target stand" rule but I was wondering what the actual rules are so i can use them instead

I run the club match davehorn referred to on the first page of this thread. We run an outlaw 3-gun match with divisions and scoring (time plus) generally based on USPSA rules. We are not a USPSA club but many of our shooters shoot USPSA and IDPA in the area. The COF's are safe e.g., follow min distance for steel rules but generally we don't worry about details of the USPSA COF rules - we just want to have fun.

In short, a static clay must show damage due to gun fire. If the shooter can't see damage while shooting it's on them to reengage or risk getting scored a miss. Because of this rule we do not put up anything but pristine clays - its easy to tell if there is damage. From time to time a go fast guy "counts" on a single pellet hit and get's it wrong. No different from calling a shot on cardboard. If you as a shooter are willing to risk a miss to go faster that is your choice.

As to the "only one pellet hit is a miss" line of thought, that's only true if you define it that way. However, you then you need a definition of hit that is not subjective. Any damage due to gun fire is not subjective, or it's the least subjective way I can think of to define a hit on a clay. If you have a better idea I'm listening. No matter how you define it, at some point someone is going to end up pushing the definition. In your example of "clear the target stand" how do you score a hit that breaks the clay but a chunk >50% of the clay still on the stand but clearly 1/3 is gone? If you call that part left as debris and its a hit, how is that different than the 99% left on the stand and the 1% missing due to a one pellet hit? Is the rule <50% on the stand a hit and >50% a miss? Why not 33% or 66% or 75%? is it % of surface 2D projected surface area or mass?

Any damage sounds like a pretty clear easy to apply standard to me.

As to the clay falling due to hit on another clay Dave mentioned. That was an artifact of the way the stands and holders were set up and was not intentional. Yes we scored the fallen clay as a hit as it was no different than shooting between two clays to try and get a "2-fer". In this case you had to hit the holder hard enough to wiggle the stand to knock the clay off. If you didn't you had to shoot it off.

Edited by Rob Tompkins, 06 March 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Chuck Anderson]

Hey, I've got an idea. You have to hit the clay with at least 15 pellets. The RO needs to ensure that the clay was sufficiently hit by counting pellet hits. That way it's the same for everyone. Or I suppose we could always come up with a clay overlay, like for pistol rounds. Or we could just go with what Rob says above, and almost all the other IMGA matches do. If you hit it and break a piece off, it counts. 1 pellet, 2 pellet, 3 pellet who cares.

[kurtm]

Hey what happened to the, must be be hit by a bunch o pellets I thought we all agreed upon Chuck.

[outerlimits]

enuf of this! just get rid of clays...get rid of spreaders, get rid of diffusion chokes. shoot steel.

[kurtm]

Oh boy! Round two of what happens if a plate turns 90 degrees! I cant wait. Thanks Outerlimits!

[outerlimits]

Oh boy! Round two of what happens if a plate turns 90 degrees! I cant wait. Thanks Outerlimits!

c'mon Kurt! just move up range a bit and tap it again!

[elynch2007]

USPSA MG Rules


8.4.26 Frangible targets must break with a visible piece missing or separated from the original target to be counted for score. A fixed frangible target that falls from a hit on its holder will be considered a hit.

[MarkCO]

USPSA MG Rules


8.4.26 Frangible targets must break with a visible piece missing or separated from the original target to be counted for score. A fixed frangible target that falls from a hit on its holder will be considered a hit.

Hmm, that makes sense.

[Jadeslade]

"The unholy alliance between R.O. calling hits and shooter trying to listen should be abolished." While not germane to clays, this is irritating, especially if there are three or four people calling hit. I've stopped listening. I know when I've hit and I know when I've missed. MGMs are better than some others

[MarkCO]

"The unholy alliance between R.O. calling hits and shooter trying to listen should be abolished." While not germane to clays, this is irritating, especially if there are three or four people calling hit. I've stopped listening. I know when I've hit and I know when I've missed. MGMs are better than some others

Mountain Man from Duck Dynasty... Beep, bang/clang, bang/clang, bang/clang, bang/clang, run 20 yards, bang/clang, HHH bang/clang III, bang/clang TTT...

I agree with you. There are few that are good at it. Jake at RM3G and Bryan Ray have been some of the better ones. Can't put the old slow guys on the binos, you need an aggressive person calling hits.