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Took a sporting clays lesson yesterday = mind blown


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#1 Chills1994

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:07 AM

yep, just like the title and subtitle says.

I think years from now I will be glad I took that lesson.

Ever since I was 10 I've have had " lead...LEAD... LEAD!!" hammered into my head.

My instructor right off the bat mentioned Roger Silcox and a book called move, mount, shoot.

I also happened to catch Gebben Miles's video on YouTube:



My instructor was from the same school of thought:

1. Break point
2. Hold point
3. Focus point
4. Hold barrels below target line

I gotta hold on to my angst.  I preserve it because I need it.  It keeps me sharp, on the edge, where I gotta be.


#2 GunCat

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:53 AM

M M S

Who was your instructor? I had a lesson with Wendell Cherry a few years ago, he had quite a bit of beneficial info packed into the day. Now if I would just put it into practice...or just practice more... ;)

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#3 Chills1994

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:59 AM

Gary Fitgerald in White Hall, IL.

He had 5 or 6 Promatic throwers at his hunting lodge. He had a remote control for the throwers. Then he had 6 more promatics at the pond near his house.

Here is busting clays with his K-80 upside down:
Posted Image

I gotta hold on to my angst.  I preserve it because I need it.  It keeps me sharp, on the edge, where I gotta be.


#4 us820

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:32 PM

I can't believe how light a cheek he has on the gun in the video.

#5 Chills1994

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

I think that was one of the problems I was having. I thought I had to have something of a sight picture to gather information about the lead or "barrel gap" between the muzzle and the clay. So I would always bury my face into the stock.

Thinking about lead while the clay was inbound or in the air = a miss .

it really was kind of a left brain versus right brain thing .

He said engineers were always his worst students. Doctors were in the middle. And artists were the best.

I gotta hold on to my angst.  I preserve it because I need it.  It keeps me sharp, on the edge, where I gotta be.


#6 leftnose

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:05 PM

LOOK AT THE BIRD!

#7 blind bat

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 05:26 PM

I find it interesting that competition shotgunners seem to be very forgiving with trigger discipline.

#8 leftnose

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:33 PM

Because a competition shotgun is never loaded until you're standing in the station ready to call pull. You're not running around a stage with a loaded gun.

#9 Bamboo

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

....Thinking about lead while the clay was inbound or in the air = a miss .it really was kind of a left brain versus right brain thing .He said engineers were always his worst students. Doctors were in the middle. And artists were the best.


This statement is timely and makes a lot of sense to me. I can see where it might be akin to playing music where if you have to really think about what you are doing then it will sound mechanical or just plain suck. Clear your mind and let it flow, that is when the artistry kicks in.

I did a couple rounds of 5-stand for the first time yesterday, and it was a real challenge (ok, it was downright ugly!). I do pretty good at skeet (but that is almost like a muscle memory task) and am fair at sporting clays. However, shooting 5-stand is a whole different animal. I was uncomfortable with all of the trap positions (8 total) and the fast tempo of the shooting, and was putting way too much thinking into each shot without relaxing to enjoy shooting, and that just wasn't working. Now that I have a couple rounds of 5-stand under my belt and have contemplated on this I want to try it again...it really is a lot of fun. Not saying I'll be any better, but hopefully I'll be more relaxed and will just try to hit the targets instead of mentally trying to analyzing vectors and intercept points! :rolleyes:

#10 mildot1

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:07 AM

Several years back I took a couple lessons with Wendell Cherry, that guy is very adept at teaching the mechanics of " move, mount, and shoot" in a short period of time!
I think the 1st 2 hr session I fired 350 and the 2nd 375, he doesn't waste time. He would have me try the presentation, offer a correction and try again till I got the concept. His wife was nice enuff to take notes for me during the 2nd session.

Hard to believe he used to be a long haired guitar picker.

Mildot

#11 benos

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:29 PM

I thought I had to have something of a sight picture to gather information about the lead or "barrel gap" between the muzzle and the clay.

Thinking about lead while the clay was inbound or in the air = a miss .

The instant your mind "sees the lead" (registers the gap between the bird and the end of the barrel) - the gun stops moving.

The first time you break a difficult target without seeing the lead is an A HA! moment, which might be analogous to the IPSC shooters first A HA! moment, the first time he saw the front sight lift (out of the rear notch).
be
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#12 PumpGunGuy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:51 AM

I have been shooting skeet and clays for 15 years now, with a fair amount of success. It is almost the exact opposite of what you do for pistol shooting. Look at the target ONLY, and wack at the trigger when it seems right.

There is no faster way to get better than to take good lessons, then practice what you have learned. Often this is difficult if you shoot where they throw fixed rounds and keep score. If you can find a club where you can set up shots to learn and practice a particular presentation, you will improve much more quickly than if you are constantly trying to figure out all the shots on a five stand course. Nothing inhibits the willingness to experiment with technique more than a score card.

If you ever get a chance to take a lesson with Anthony Matarese, DO IT!

Good luck on the journey.

PGG
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#13 Jaxshooter

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:01 PM

If you look at the barrel on a shotgun you will never be good. Your total focus must be on the target.
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#14 Wild Gene

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

After seeing Michael Bane's segment on Sporting Clays I thought Daniel Schindler may have a chance to actually beat something into my head. I bought and have been reading his books, am seriously considering a trip to FlatRock, NC for a few lessons, and hope to make it into any classes he is teaching in the PNW next spring/summer.

I find it interesting that he feels it is very important to know the relationship between the target and the barrels. You are aware of the barrel and the target is in focus, you move your gun into your style/sight picture and pull the trigger. Everything is very methodical, the mechanics just happen, it is almost as if you are on the outside looking in, having everything come together, aware of everything but not really in control, it just happens...?

Anyway, great reading. So basic is seems silly, but then we often complicate things that are simple.

wg
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#15 bry@n

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:34 PM

I have been shooting skeet and clays for 15 years now, with a fair amount of success. It is almost the exact opposite of what you do for pistol shooting. Look at the target ONLY, and wack at the trigger when it seems right.

There is no faster way to get better than to take good lessons, then practice what you have learned. Often this is difficult if you shoot where they throw fixed rounds and keep score. If you can find a club where you can set up shots to learn and practice a particular presentation, you will improve much more quickly than if you are constantly trying to figure out all the shots on a five stand course. Nothing inhibits the willingness to experiment with technique more than a score card.

If you ever get a chance to take a lesson with Anthony Matarese, DO IT!

Good luck on the journey.

PGG


I have a lesson set with Anthony this Sunday. I have been shooting a lot at M&M Hunting Preserve and really enjoy the laid back scene. Myself, I have lead issues and really hope he can help.

#16 PumpGunGuy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:48 PM

bry@n,

The big thing when taking a lesson from Anthony is to just do what he says. The next thing is to practice it. That is the hard part for me, because when someone is keeping score, I just want to break the target any way I can. I am getting better at the practice discipline, and that is what will make a lasting improvement.

Enjoy the lesson.
PGG
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#17 Wild Gene

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:11 PM


I have been shooting skeet and clays for 15 years now, with a fair amount of success. It is almost the exact opposite of what you do for pistol shooting. Look at the target ONLY, and wack at the trigger when it seems right.

There is no faster way to get better than to take good lessons, then practice what you have learned. Often this is difficult if you shoot where they throw fixed rounds and keep score. If you can find a club where you can set up shots to learn and practice a particular presentation, you will improve much more quickly than if you are constantly trying to figure out all the shots on a five stand course. Nothing inhibits the willingness to experiment with technique more than a score card.

If you ever get a chance to take a lesson with Anthony Matarese, DO IT!

Good luck on the journey.

PGG


I have a lesson set with Anthony this Sunday. I have been shooting a lot at M&M Hunting Preserve and really enjoy the laid back scene. Myself, I have lead issues and really hope he can help.


Let us know how it goes!

wg
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#18 mjl

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:04 PM

I recall a Front Sight article a couple years ago, in it the guru said the three hardest people to teach to shoot clays were engineers, accountants, and handgun shooters. Two out of three plus I am cross eye dominant- I am screwed.

#19 Got Juice?

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:07 AM

I recall a Front Sight article a couple years ago, in it the guru said the three hardest people to teach to shoot clays were engineers, accountants, and handgun shooters. Two out of three plus I am cross eye dominant- I am screwed.


Not at all. I am CED, shoot left handed, the shotgun is right handed cast, and I am a pistol shot. Went to a club tournament after 2 years not shooting trap and I cam away a second place winner.

And yes, I do shoot a bit of pistol here and there.
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#20 pjb45

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

I am cross eye dominant also. I can shoot skeet or 5 stand left handed. It is not that big of a deal. For me, the challenge was my mono-vision. My left dominant eye is for distance and my right eye is for reading.

I can get away with shooting right handed on skeet as the birds are not that far away. But 5 Stand was a different story. I had to modify some things; like take my head off the gun, use both eyes then close my left eye when I was going to shoot (right handed shooting). Shooting left handed was easy.

But now, I have changed my contacts to use my non-dominant eye (right) to see far. I like it this way. I may end up doing this for 3Gun also.

The key from everything i have read and been told (by state champions, etc.) is it is critical to see the clay bird. The more detail of the clay bird the better.

#21 Ross Carter

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:05 AM

I recall a Front Sight article a couple years ago, in it the guru said the three hardest people to teach to shoot clays were engineers, accountants, and handgun shooters. Two out of three plus I am cross eye dominant- I am screwed.


I'd say serious rifle shooters have the most trouble adapting to clay targets. You can spot a rifle shooter easily, he will follow the bird stop and start stop and shoot. Bullseye pistol shooters a close second. When you've beat it into your head for years not to let a shot go until everything is just right it's hard to just trust yourself and look at the bird. When I started shooting trap I had a red dot on my shotgun after a few weeks. It worked pretty well but I could see the advantage of learning what I call the classical shotgun method so I took it off and went into shotgun of the week mode.

But just like pistol instructors there are different schools of thought in the clays sports too. There are some instructors who teach a barrel bird relationship approach and those who are entirely instinct and remove the beads from your gun the first day.

A307

 

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#22 Got Juice?

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:21 PM

the hardest thing to learn with a shotgun is the trigger. Shotgun triggers should be 'tapped' not squeezed, and remember to swing through (follow through) the path of the bird as you tap the trigger... that produces the best shot patterning to smoke the birds.
"You can't fix stupid, but for a hundred bucks an hour we can diagnose it"

#23 Yelrdog

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:33 PM

Yeah, pay attention then just shoot it in the beak.

#24 benos

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:20 PM

bry@n,

The big thing when taking a lesson from Anthony is to just do what he says. The next thing is to practice it. That is the hard part for me, because when someone is keeping score, I just want to break the target any way I can.


Maybe just for fun sometime, try a round (for score) without caring if you break any targets. Instead, just care about one thing - never take your eyes off the target. Especially at the very last millisecond when you fire. That's when it's so easy to "look away."
Man's greatest power is the capacity to direct attention. If you created it you can change it; otherwise, forget it.

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