37 replies to this topic

[steel1212]

How are you going to be DC but be behind.....Anybody? If your Division Champ didn't you win the division and therefore not 1st anything but DC?

Someone else got DC.


Final times in your division:

1. Master A. Takes home DC trophy

2. DM. Takes home bupkis

3. Master B (you). Takes home 1st MA trophy

Sorry I miss read, Another master takes DC, the DM didn't have a good day, then me.

With that said the DM is a class so if he doesn't have enough to have an award then he has to get DC or nothing. I've been the only GM at a match and finished 2nd. They didn't give me 1st Master.

Edited by steel1212, 08 June 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Sac Law Man]

I am ok with the DM class, with the exception of how it is awarded. The way they are doing it is relative to the level of shooters you shoot against. There is no requirement to beat 10 masters before getting a bump! If there are not 10 masters in your class, then there really isnt a need for a DM.

[Bob Hostetter]

Personally I hope they keep it the way it is. When they 1st started talking about it they mentioned winning alot of sanctioned/state level matches as a basis for moving up. This way you don't have to worry about being bumped if you aren't shooting the nationals.

[theblacknight]

I like the all or nothing aspect of DM,which is how I think anyway. I never liked the random match prizes and 8th place SS trophies aspect of IDPA.

[ckeller]

If we applied the same criteria to our USPSA brothers, how many GM's would there be and how many would make it to that level in the next 5 years?

Are there shooters that are as competitive as the DM's? Sure, but they have only 2 matches a year to have it all come together. Considering that even if you are a top IDPA shooter you are not guaranteed a slot to those 2 matches it may never happen. The way it is setup now you could have one of the best shooters in the country never become a DM because they either won't shoot or can't shoot nationals.

Just seems very odd to me.

I have to agree with Brian. There are many shooters that go out and dominate MA class, and will never make DM because there is no venue to do so.

And the fact that DM's do not care about plaques is untrue i think. As Brian mentioned earlier, there are DM's that do not shoot in the Division in which they are DM, I think, because they do not want to go a long way for nothing if there is someone there who beats them. There are MA shooters out there that can/have beaten DM's at matches, like at the Southern Regionals. Dean Brevitt was beat by several shooters.

Just my opinion.

[jar]

Prior to the addition of DM, I've always thought giving the guy who finishes second a "1st master" trophy was silly. "Oh, you won the match, congrats" "No, actually I finished second" "But it says 1st master, is there a higher class" "No" "????"

I think some number of overall placement awards should be given out before getting in to classes. Maybe the top ten? I'm an SSP EX. Say I have a great day at a major, and the overall finish is DM,M,M,Me(EX),M,M,M,M,EX,EX,... I'd much rather have a 4th place overall trophy than a 1st expert.

The problem I have with giving out DM only at the two nationals with no participation requirement is how different the difficulty of achieving it is across divisions. There were only 12 shooters TOTAL in ESR. By comparison, in SSP, there were 21 Masters! Obviously Jerry is DM material, but say he went minor at chrono or something. Should the next guy at 70% of Jerry's score really be a DM? No offense intended toward said shooter, he's a local and I consider him a friend. I'd bet he'd say the same thing.

[Gryff]

I like the Distinguish Master class. It creates the opportunity to move the high-end professional shooters out of Master, and gives others a chance to do well in that class at big matches.

[seanc]

The problem I have with giving out DM only at the two nationals with no participation requirement is how different the difficulty of achieving it is across divisions. There were only 12 shooters TOTAL in ESR. By comparison, in SSP, there were 21 Masters! Obviously Jerry is DM material, but say he went minor at chrono or something. Should the next guy at 70% of Jerry's score really be a DM? No offense intended toward said shooter, he's a local and I consider him a friend. I'd bet he'd say the same thing.

Hypothetical, what if Jerry missed his flight and wasn't even there? Then what? Would that mean Dave shouldn't be a DM?

Is it only valid if he beats Jerry of Cliff?

DM is a dopey add on applied with no thought about what it means.

[GrandBoule]

Some of y'all got your knickers in a knot because you're put some value on DM way beyond it's description.

Look, if you're a Master ESR shooter, and easily win every match you've entered, including big sanctioned matches, but lose to Jerry or Cliff at Nats by, say 3.1% (not quite enough to get DM), you're still far and away among the top ESR Masters in the game. How or where others get their DM has no bearing on yours, since it's a matter of how well you've done in your division on the Big Stage.

Tom

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

I haven't checked anyone's knickers for knots, but I can understand wanting Distinguished Master to reflect a skill-level above Master in the same way that Master reflects a skill level above Expert, and so on. The classes below Distinguished Master aren't perfect, of course, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss finding a better way to handle this new class.

I suspect the folks in charge want a bit more control over who makes Distinguished Master, and they want the best shooters to turn out for the majorest major competitions. In time, I wouldn't be surprised if it evolved into just another class.

[ckeller]

I guess i just dont see the point in it. If a DM wins, he gets Division Champ and the guy who wins Master class gets First Place Master. If there were no DM class, guess what, the same two guys would still get the exact same Division Champion and First Master trophies! So it does nothing.

[GrandBoule]

I guess i just dont see the point in it. If a DM wins, he gets Division Champ and the guy who wins Master class gets First Place Master. If there were no DM class, guess what, the same two guys would still get the exact same Division Champion and First Master trophies! So it does nothing.

The DM classification benefits MAs more than DMs, since, unlike MAs, it's "all or nothing" for DMs. In this case, if the DM didn't win, he gets bupkis. That MA gets DC, and the next MA in line gets 1st MA, even if the DM beat him. If 2 DMs show up at Nats or World's, one of them, at a minimum, will go home empty-handed.

Tom

[Bones]

At least half of the IDPA DMs are folks just like you with day jobs, mortgages, and families who simply enjoy the sport. DMs put simply put more - time, money,sweat - in that other Classifcation levels. Probably a lot more.

Action shooting is a great way to spend a lot of time, effort and money fast without a buying a boat. Competitors don't make money in IDPA, they are the revenue source.

Think of how you would like to be treated. "They" are "you". Excluding or including them from anything is excluding or including you.

Craig

Edited by Bones, 08 August 2012 - 09:01 AM.